I want to hear from Firaxis

[Panda_Power]

Judging by the attached screenshot, taken 30 seconds ago, the MAJORITY absolutely adores this game, it takes one HELL of a game to top the Steam charts.

That's one of the good things about Steam...they know exactly how many people are playing and those figures don't lie!

Like it or not, Civ 5 is already a huge success and it will just keep getting better and better!

 

[paradigmx]

Of course, it's capitalist regimes like 2k that ruin perfectly good game franchises like Civilization by streamlining them and choosing middle-school brats as a target audience.

Capitalist regimes like the ones responsible for putting a man on the moon? or capitalist regimes responsible for probably almost everything you own?

Capitalism isn't the bad guy here, Capitalism built the western world, Capitalism pushes technology forward at such an accelerated rate that the advances we are making are not even comprehendable to the general populace.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

That's one of the good things about Steam...they know exactly how many people are playing and those figures don't lie!

Like it or not, Civ 5 is already a huge success and it will just keep getting better and better!

Out of all those people playing, how many are still in denial that this game has been getting more unbearable? I think the longevity of how long this game remain on top is coming near a short life when the majority of them come to realize how unbearable it to play it over and over.

This game I can assure you will not break Steam all time record of how long a game is to be on top. This is a relatively slow month of new game releases. If they had release this game during the same time as - I don't know Call of Duty Black Ops - then we wouldn't be talking about this.

 

[whatdoisay]

Of course, it's capitalist regimes like 2k that ruin perfectly good game franchises like Civilization by streamlining them and choosing middle-school brats as a target audience.

Yes, that's right.

It's the same thing that happened to the Spore game. In it's early stages Will Wright was invited to give TED talks and other conferences on what was obviously developing into a science-oriented game not intended for the riffiest of the raffiest. The development was so thoroughly reported on that you could surely pinpoint the date of the board meeting where the publishers, in this case EA, came in with the marketeers and the vision of the "creepy and cute" expansion packs and the opportunity for yet more social networking BS.

Let's not confuse refined with simplified. This fifth iteration of the series has been designed as an expansion to market share and nothing more.

 

[Venereus]

Capitalist regimes like the ones responsible for putting a man on the moon? or capitalist regimes responsible for probably almost everything you own?

Capitalism isn't the bad guy here, Capitalism built the western world, Capitalism pushes technology forward at such an accelerated rate that the advances we are making are not even comprehendable to the general populace.

First of all, the "western world" it's not alright, and capitalism is a major factor. Second, what do you think would happen if a certain technology development meant less profit for those with the power to stop it?

 

[Stiefel]

Capitalist regimes like the ones responsible for putting a man on the moon? or capitalist regimes responsible for probably almost everything you own?

Capitalism isn't the bad guy here, Capitalism built the western world, Capitalism pushes technology forward at such an accelerated rate that the advances we are making are not even comprehendable to the general populace.

Remember that is was the USSR that sent the first human being into space.

Capitalism did not build the western world, the working class built the western world. The worker is exploited every day by capitalists who seek to profit off the sweat and blood of the masses. I would even venture to say that 2k is exploiting Firaxis' good name and the faith of real Civ fans to make more profit off of bullcrap.

 

[paradigmx]

First of all, the "western world" it's not alright, and capitalism is a major factor. Second, what do you think would happen if a certain technology development meant less profit for those with the power to stop it?

The simple fact that you have the right to go out and voice your opinion about whether or not you think the western world is alright is proof that, yes, in fact, the western world is doing just fine.

The USSR collapsed under it's own strength, completely, the Blanket of Socialism that covered it also managed to crush it from the inside, when the USSR fell, it left in its wake a whole host of smaller nations on the edge of anarchy, it was only through the sponsorship of the western world that kept Russia from breaking down into full out civil war.

As for a company covering up an advancement in the name of profit, that can only be pushed so far, in 1947 a car company called Tucker released a car with seatbelts and a whole host of safety mechanisms designed to protect the occupants of a vehicle, under the combined weight of GM, Ford and Chrysler, Tucker folded because the big 3 did not want people thinking that driving is unsafe, yet, how many cars do you know of that don't have Seatbelts or Airbags today, or even in the past 40 years?

 

[Usama84]

Of course, it's capitalist regimes like 2k that ruin perfectly good game franchises like Civilization by streamlining them and choosing middle-school brats as a target audience.

well said... thats why there was drama and the team split up! as soon as they wanted to make money, they ruined the game...

yes, civ 4 was complicated, but thats what made it cool, cause it took time to learn it!

 

[SuperJay]

Wait, you mean this thread's been up for THREE WHOLE HOURS and the 2K & Firaxis guys aren't here yet?!?

ITS LIEK THEY DONT EVEN CARE BOUT MEH FEELINGS

 

[bernlin2000]

Probably no official statement, because the game has been well-received overall, by both professional reviews and the community in general. You said it yourself: only 1/4 to 1/3 of this community of hard-core users dislike the game. That leaves a large majority that are enjoying the game, even if they have quibbles about certain elements. You want them to release a statement apologizing for making a good game? That's ridiculous. We already know the developers were positioning this game to be easy for new users to pick up, so they are targeting more casual players. The game is still very complex, though, so there's still a lot to learn for new players, it's just not as much of a steep learning curve as CivIV could be. I'd like to hear more about bug fixes and changes to the AI, but I'm very satisfied with the game Firaxis has come out with: they took a risk with changing features that have been in the game for over a decade, and for the most part they were very good changes.

 

[bernlin2000]

You can't go liking new Civ games around here, it's totally uncool dude. You gotta get with the program and hate on anything new or different. Also, make sure you call the game "broken" at every opportunity, spin wild conspiracy theories about how everyone in the software industry is out to get you, and call every design choice that you disagree with "a bug." Make sure you frequently mention the phrases "console-ized" and "dumbed down." The game as whole will be referred to as "an abomination" only.

Now get out there and start'cher hatin, boy!

It's so funny it hurts...actually I think it just hurts . Haters have to hate I guess...and it's apparently impossible to have liked every single Civ game Firaxis has played (ok unit movement is kinda annoying in CivI )

 

[Venereus]

The simple fact that you have the right to go out and voice your opinion about whether or not you think the western world is alright is proof that, yes, in fact, the western world is doing just fine.

The USSR collapsed under it's own strength, completely, the Blanket of Socialism that covered it also managed to crush it from the inside, when the USSR fell, it left in its wake a whole host of smaller nations on the edge of anarchy, it was only through the sponsorship of the western world that kept Russia from breaking down into full out civil war.

As for a company covering up an advancement in the name of profit, that can only be pushed so far, in 1947 a car company called Tucker released a car with seatbelts and a whole host of safety mechanisms designed to protect the occupants of a vehicle, under the combined weight of GM, Ford and Chrysler, Tucker folded because the big 3 did not want people thinking that driving is unsafe, yet, how many cars do you know of that don't have Seatbelts or Airbags today, or even in the past 40 years?

You make me lol.

 

[rep1826]

There seems to have been a misunderstanding about what I was saying, especially by one very irritating poster in particular (who I assume I'm not allowed to reference by name due to moderator rules).

I know that someone is not going to come talk to me personally, or respond to this thread directly or indirectly, or "apologize" for the sorry state we feel the game is in.

I am also aware that many people have purchased and are enjoying the game. I'm sure that many love it. I am aware this represents the majority of people generally, as well as a simple majority on this board. However, I also assume that a community manager has to interact with customers in a meaningful way, because it is terrible PR to get a reputation for not doing so.

What I am curious about is whether they would be willing to say:

1. "We are considering this feedback and have been looking for ways to satisfy our customers based on it"

or

2. "We have considered this feedback, but unfortunately it does not fit with our vision of the game. We have tried to appeal to a broader audience, and such changes would necessarily conflict with our vision. While we would love to add them, we will unfortunately not be able to take the game is this direction"

The marketing cynicism I was talking about means you might think they'd always say (1) even if (2) were true. However, total silence or outright dishonesty is very bad PR as well, because it totally erodes all customer goodwill with that segment. If we truly are an insignificant part of the market -- and that seems to be the general consensus -- they gain more by keeping their community management reputation honest.

The fact is this: after this release, no one in the 1/4 to 1/3 will preorder expansions or DLC without reading reviews first anymore. We will wait to judge the quality upon release. So they gain nothing by stringing us along and lying to us about what they will do with the game in the future. That is because we'll observe what they do before we give them money next time, so the opportunity for cynically trying to "trick" potential customers is that we'll be annoyed and they will have no more money than would if they just told the truth. They might as well not make themselves look bad by lying or evading.

The 2K forums have as much complaining as these forums do, if not more. What I want to know is, when will someone come out and say what they plan to do with all this feedback? I know they can't come out and say "we are ignoring this feedback" but there are much more diplomatic ways to say "look, Civ 4 will be the last Civ made for the 'enthusiast' market. We enjoyed serving you and we hope you will still consider playing our new games, but our company is focusing on new opportunities" or something like that. I think it's reasonable for us as customers to get that kind of feedback. After all, they have "community managers", what else should they be doing if not stuff like that?

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

I don't think you are going to get that kind of honesty from a publisher. To quote from

Jerry Maguire: We live in a cynical world, a cynical, cynical world, and we work in a business of tough competitors.

 

[Thry]

Please stop posting about how the game is topping the steam charts. You're comparing a new release to 6months+ old games.

In other words;

YOU'RE HURTING MY IQ

 

[rep1826]

I don't think you are going to get that kind of honesty from a publisher. To quote from

Jerry Maguire: We live in a cynical world, a cynical, cynical world, and we work in a business of tough competitors.

I suppose you're right. However, what incentive do they have to stay silent? No matter what they say about this issue, the only segment of the custom base it affects are those of us in the minority who care.

Regardless of what you might think about "big cynical businesses", part of their ethos is that they are forced (perhaps by their cynicism!) to at least pretend that they care and pay lip service to the idea of customer service.

Since they can't alienate anyone who doesn't care, and those who do care are alienated and frustrated by their silence, they should just say what their plans are to satisfy the 1/3 of long-time fans who are severely disappointed, no? If they say "we invested a lot of time into modding infrastructure so you can mod whatever game rules you want!", fine, that is the diplomatic way of saying "no" and we have our answer. And I think honestly that will be the answer.

Very rarely in business do you get customers this fiercely loyal. That kind of loyalty is normally worth money in the business world. We preordered without thinking on the basis of it, and they got a lot of cash flow from that. What is the benefit to staying silent and eroding that loyalty if they do intend to try to keep us happy in the long run?

 

[Jester Fool]

I don't think you are going to get that kind of honesty from a publisher.

You are absolutely wrong. Go to the Elemental : War of Magic website and read some posts by Stardock's CEO concerning some issues they have had on game launch. The chief executive officer of the company responding to his customer's concerns. Compare and contrast to 2Ks handling of the issues with CiV. The difference is night and day.

 

[SuperJay]

Very rarely in business do you get customers this fiercely loyal. That kind of loyalty is normally worth money in the business world. We preordered without thinking on the basis of it, and they got a lot of cash flow from that. What is the benefit to staying silent and eroding that loyalty if they do intend to try to keep us happy in the long run?

I'm sorry I didn't take your thread seriously. It was the "I want to hear from 2K" title that did it, just seemed so ludicrous and petulantly demanding. I should have disregarded it and given you the benefit of the doubt

I get where you're coming from. I don't expect you'll hear anything, but I've been in that position before and been just as frustrated. I'm not this time around, but I can empathize.

I hope you do get some kind of feedback like you're looking for, truly. Good luck.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

I suppose you're right. However, what incentive do they have to stay silent? No matter what they say about this issue, the only segment of the custom base it affects are those of us in the minority who care.

Regardless of what you might think about "big cynical businesses", part of their ethos is that they are forced (perhaps by their cynicism!) to at least pretend that they care and pay lip service to the idea of customer service.

Since they can't alienate anyone who doesn't care, and those who do care are alienated and frustrated by their silence, they should just say what their plans are to satisfy the 1/3 of long-time fans who are severely disappointed, no? If they say "we invested a lot of time into modding infrastructure so can mod whatever game you want!", fine, that means "no" and we have our answer. And I think honestly that will be the answer.

Very rarely in business do you get customers this fiercely loyal. That kind of loyalty is normally worth money in the business world. We preordered without thinking on the basis of it, and they got a lot of cash flow from that. What is the benefit to staying silent and eroding that loyalty if they do intend to try to keep us happy in the long run?

It could be something else. Maybe some of the so-called loyal customers is growing old and tired of the game. And can not yet, or ever feel the same way they once did when they enjoyed a new Civilization game. Business to me is not synonymous to loyalty whether if I do indeed stick my head in a hole inside the ground or not.

It make practical sense that what they are doing is reasonable in a business sense as well as what we know in our hearts. That is that they are moving on from what we all was accustomed to, and focusing now on newer gamers with different taste that come and go in huge floods.

 

[Songkok]

First of all, the "western world" it's not alright, and capitalism is a major factor. Second, what do you think would happen if a certain technology development meant less profit for those with the power to stop it?

The simple fact that you have the right to go out and voice your opinion about whether or not you think the western world is alright is proof that, yes, in fact, the western world is doing just fine.

The USSR collapsed under it's own strength, completely, the Blanket of Socialism that covered it also managed to crush it from the inside, when the USSR fell, it left in its wake a whole host of smaller nations on the edge of anarchy, it was only through the sponsorship of the western world that kept Russia from breaking down into full out civil war.

As for a company covering up an advancement in the name of profit, that can only be pushed so far, in 1947 a car company called Tucker released a car with seatbelts and a whole host of safety mechanisms designed to protect the occupants of a vehicle, under the combined weight of GM, Ford and Chrysler, Tucker folded because the big 3 did not want people thinking that driving is unsafe, yet, how many cars do you know of that don't have Seatbelts or Airbags today, or even in the past 40 years?

um... i think freedom of speech does not have anything to do with capitalism... yup, western world have much freedom of speech, but if you ever work with a MNC, you should know that you are always required to sign a letter of non-disclosure. and there goes your freedom of speech, concerning things about your work anyway.

oh, and in my country any vehicles older than 5 years does not have any airbags, and 2 years does not have any back seat seatbelt. yeah. thats how capitalism works. and guess what will happens if someone invented cheap clean cold fusion today? all the oil companies will be coming down to prevent the invention from being published.

Btw. USSR folded because it attempts to adopt capitalism. and technological advances are not due to capitalism, but arm races during the cold war. it is interesting to note that whenever there is war, the technology grows by spurts. war fuels technology.