I will beat standard Deity by conquest once...With your advice:)

Will answer a bit later with more time, but I played a bit with your save yesterday. Just to show what I researched at 1 AD and could be possible :). It is not really a spoiler.

Spoiler :






And basically you already did all the work for this, because I only played ~15 turns or so ;)
 
1) Yeka should steal floodplain farm from new city and grow to pop 10+ ... generally you want 3+ cities to have big population (=10+) for generating GS soon. So there is no point in whipping theatre or anything else. There is no infra that is useful now... why Barracks?? You have 30+ turns to build it.

At this point you just need more citizens. Before you work grassland (2 food) you can always run scientists maybe.

Bigger problems are Rostov and Moscow. Working really bad tiles. Yes, maybe whip worker this turn... and clear jungle. Moscow needs more cottages right now, already working forest... in your capital this shouldn't happen if possible. Maybe even Yaroslavl should whip worker for help... because it is a bad situation. And soon Civil Service so you need to do a lot of work. And Yaroslavl doesn't have Buddhism so you don't need it for GPP (Pacifism has no effect there).

2) Make sure you win Music first. Already looks a bit risky.

3) You gave away stone to Hannibal, so building wealth is same effect. Need stone for generating failgold.

4) Missionary in capital for Taoist Monastery (+research). For workers see 1)

5) Don't know, I would build cottages and maybe change later. You have a lot of food, so beakers seem more important. I would cottage, but this isn't 100%. If you had more workers maybe I would say "farm everything". Cottage is faster. This is not game-breaking decision though.

6) Why you always want to gift tech for nothing? I think it happened with Aesthetics aswell, that's why many AI are close to Music now. You trade Aesthetics for Alpha and then keep it for 10+ turns, AI don't get it quickly. So Music could be much easier. :(

You should protect monopoly tech with your life. I wouldn't have given Drama to Egypt ... if he started plotting I would bribe Alex or Isa on him. And never ever give away Philosophy. In general I would stop trading with AI, you only need Calendar (maybe for Drama + money). You just help the AI for no reason with tech.

7) ~10% culture is not really pressing hard, I don't see big problem. But build theatres soon if you want. Creative-Theatres is only 25 hammers. Rostov can whip worker and finish theatre.

I gave the stupid AI nothing when I played from your save and look at the tech situation :)

This is 100 BC.

Spoiler :






Notice how nobody has Philosophy? It is very very important. If you want to lib Steel you need to slow them down. Keep Philosophy, stop trading so much, grow cities, improve tiles, prepare for golden age (hope you get Music), kill everyone soon.
 
1) Yeka should steal floodplain farm from new city and grow to pop 10+ ... generally you want 3+ cities to have big population (=10+) for generating GS soon. So there is no point in whipping theatre or anything else. There is no infra that is useful now... why Barracks?? You have 30+ turns to build it.

At this point you just need more citizens. Before you work grassland (2 food) you can always run scientists maybe.

Bigger problems are Rostov and Moscow. Working really bad tiles. Yes, maybe whip worker this turn... and clear jungle. Moscow needs more cottages right now, already working forest... in your capital this shouldn't happen if possible. Maybe even Yaroslavl should whip worker for help... because it is a bad situation. And soon Civil Service so you need to do a lot of work. And Yaroslavl doesn't have Buddhism so you don't need it for GPP (Pacifism has no effect there).

2) Make sure you win Music first. Already looks a bit risky.

3) You gave away stone to Hannibal, so building wealth is same effect. Need stone for generating failgold.

4) Missionary in capital for Taoist Monastery (+research). For workers see 1)

5) Don't know, I would build cottages and maybe change later. You have a lot of food, so beakers seem more important. I would cottage, but this isn't 100%. If you had more workers maybe I would say "farm everything". Cottage is faster. This is not game-breaking decision though.

6) Why you always want to gift tech for nothing? I think it happened with Aesthetics aswell, that's why many AI are close to Music now. You trade Aesthetics for Alpha and then keep it for 10+ turns, AI don't get it quickly. So Music could be much easier. :(

You should protect monopoly tech with your life. I wouldn't have given Drama to Egypt ... if he started plotting I would bribe Alex or Isa on him. And never ever give away Philosophy. In general I would stop trading with AI, you only need Calendar (maybe for Drama + money). You just help the AI for no reason with tech.

7) ~10% culture is not really pressing hard, I don't see big problem. But build theatres soon if you want. Creative-Theatres is only 25 hammers. Rostov can whip worker and finish theatre.

I gave the stupid AI nothing when I played from your save and look at the tech situation :)

This is 100 BC.

Spoiler :





Notice how nobody has Philosophy? It is very very important. If you want to lib Steel you need to slow them down. Keep Philosophy, stop trading so much, grow cities, improve tiles, prepare for golden age (hope you get Music), kill everyone soon.

Lain, Thank you once more! It looks like during the last 5-10 turns I messed the most :) Hence, probably it was one part of the game where I started falling behind. :mischief: About Moscow hammers (plain forest)...It is needed to complete monastery 1 turn earlier. But I agree - I would prefer 1-2 more cottages. About Rostov...here I started to not lke this city about 5 turns ago. So, I was about whipping a worker here. Actually, for Moscow and Rostov - only Rostov worked really bad tiles during about 3 turns. Not really terrible, I hope...

Well...I will rely on GA and Pasifism, which means that I will grow the next few turns instead of whipping infra.

3) I am pretty sure that I messed a little bit with stone...I forgot that Philo and CoL will give two stone wonders. Well...I never did it (failgold) - this is only excuse :crazyeye:

4) Oh, I never thought about this moment. I thought that the missionary can spy Hannibal...But monastery looks better.

6) I hoped that it will give some +fair trade bonus...Anyway, I will pay more attention to it. :blush: Also I would note that I did it quite often in my games...and wondered afterwards why AIs was teching so fast. :lol: Well...here I really should pay more attention.

7) The problem is that every turn she added 2-3% of her culture.


And...your saves looks great! Even if it is only 15 turn. :king: Also, I need note that even I solely play this game...The game itself looks like SG game where only one person plays but everyone else discuss very much. :) So far, it looks that I more or less listen advice and perform fine. I hope to continue this game around Tuesday.


Meanwhile...I made two discoveries or advances.

1) It looks like eventually I started normally understand WFYBTA :lol: Hence, made some tests and read something, which was confirmed by this tests. I hope that now I could do tradind more effectively :smoke:

2) I kind of won Immortal in Vanilla 1.61. I must say that Cossacks in Vanilla are really overpowered...with 18 strength and 50% vs mounted they eat cavalries on their brekfest. :king: Anyway, you need to tech to them too...which means that Quechas are the only unit which is more overpowered. Anyway, Cossacks are in top 5 of UU. It was domination in ~ 1700 (in Vanilla there is no vassals). Why it was "kind of won"?..I reloaded once when I traded for Machinery and couldn't bulb Lib by GS. However, the goal is Deity (in all three version) conquest, and I think I became one step closer. Also I note that Immortal Vanilla/Wardlords is not a walk...Especially with -1 health/happy comparing to Deity BtS. Anyway, it has it is own features and really dumb AIs which makes it not really hard. The challenging part is the first 150 turns (after that either you won or lost). Probably the same will be true for Deity (cavaly rush at 500-1000 AD is kind of superior to other strategies).

Going back to our current game. Unfortunately, I don't have horses (in the Vanilla game I also didn't have but I was able to trade for it). This bacically left me two options for the conquest after teching: cannon rush and rifle rush. I am not sure what I will chose, but another small question - what it the best after capitulating 1-2 AIs and facing something stong at third AI? Beeline communism and AL? Without state property it is so expensive to keep expand through war...
 
I see Lain helped you greatly while i was away, good postion you have now yup :)

You can trade for horsies at some point with ~90% chance (i made up that number :b) in many games.
They are not expensive, worth ~30g / turn so can usually be bought with 2 other resis.
Just have to watch who would trade them (most AIs require pleased), then adjust diplo a bit.
Can take some time (not all land settled yet probably), but it's very rare that no AI gets 2 on Pangea.
 
You both helped very much ;) Which allowed me to win Music at 325 BC. :king:
In some sence I feel myself like a schoolboy who ask for a direction after each 5 turns. :lol: If I would ask help every 50 turns then I would feel like a university student. :king: I must say that your advice and comments are very precise and answer my questions for 99% :thumbsup:
About horses, it is difficult question. Still no one trade. Probably I should choose safe route trhough steel.

Okay, another short session.
Session 13.
Turn 99, 400 BC. Put worker in Rostov. St. Petersburg changed to Reseacrh, Moscow will have monastery next turn and Music should be done in 3 turns. Worker near Yakuts started another cottage. Yaroslavl will start a woker next turn and then whip it. Since the city doesn't have food/commerce tiles for working.

Turn 100, 375 BC. Taosism was spread in Moscow. Worker started to clear jungles near Rostov (SE of Rice since I want to farm here later to irrigate rice). Rostov whipped worker. Also I did some micro to finish Music in 2 turn. Unfortunately Moscow had to build reseacrh instead of another monastery. Isa is +5 for care about brother and sister...But still only pleased...What a *itch! I mean witch.

Turn 101, 350 BC. oveflow in Rostov went into Parthenon. I hope it will be build very soon. However, I am very regret that I gave stone to Hannibal. Still 6 turns left...Also at stone we have 17 bs 82 culture. Well...Also, Zara and Alex made peace...
Cat350BC_tomusic.JPG



Turn 102, 325. Isa came and asked about cancellind deals with vile Egyptains...well...I will close border and cancel deals sheep for corn (-1 health) and jems for wine (-1 happy). But I want she be my friend...Okay, I take it. However, this didn't game me any + to relations with her...Well...AT least it is not - to relations. Which means I was need to cancel all possible deals with Egypt (only deals which last longer than 10 turns was canceled). This is the lesson which I should remember. I faced it before, but never paid much attention.
And yeah, Music was won. :)
Cat325BC_Isa.JPG


Yaro changed to worker. Canceled weal with Isa about iron. I need to redo it this turn later. Overflow in Rostov was not put into Parthenon since it was building research/wealth. Hence, I can do it now. Also I can put it into theatre.

It is very bad that Hanny and Hyana are friends and kind of share their techs. No one of AIs is in WHEOON mode. And also..Zara have paper.

I would stop here.

Questions after homework. %)

1) Should I start GA right now or grow a little bit? Or may be I startd it as I get CoL?

2) Where to put overflow in Rostov?

3) Should I sell Drama to Isa? May be then I could get her friendly and hence trade Music for CoL and other ****. Meanwhile I will get some gold and can start Civil Servise.

4) What to research next? I quess I should wait for CoL from Isa and then start CS.

5) How should I get Calendar? May be I can chane it from Hanny or from Hyana for Music? However it would be much better if I can get theology
from Isa and trade it. But then I will miss her CoL. Or, may be I should just to put a couple of turns into Calendar and then change it for
Drama? Personally I would prefer to change Music for Isa's CoL and then trade Music for Calendar. Or...CoL+Drama to Hanny for Calendar.

6) When I start GA how may Great People should I produce? 3 GS+1 GM or as much GS as I can (e.g. 4-5). The last one is needed if I will bulb
chemisty. However it will require Engeneering.
 

Attachments

Good job on winning Music, game is still looking good and winnable :). Even early Dom or Conquest should be possible later.

Ok, first thing... I think it's important to see that "friendly" Isa is completely (not completely, but 90%) useless to you. Keeping deals with Egypt should have been better. Soon you will kill 2-3 AIs and make friends like that.

Trade iron to Isa for Sugar + 6 gold? Moscow is unhappy. Don't accept copper from her, you need to build warriors for happiness.

Some micro... Yeka+Moscow working forest, could work better tiles (coast/grassland mine) ... Moscow should have a worker to build more cottages on grassland.

1) Start GA after reaching Code of Laws (-> switch into Paci/Caste System/Hereditary Rule) and make sure you can switch into Bureaucracy at the end of golden age (save 2 turns of anarchy)

2) Build wealth and put overflow into stone wonder when you get back stone... or build theatre (imho useless here).

3) aaaaaa ... don't give away or trade monopoly techs. Don't gift Isa ANYTHING except cannon damage for her cities soon. You get Code of Laws in 3 turns self-tech, why trade Music for it? :(

4) You should self-tech Code of Laws and start Civil Service yourself. Not wait for anyone. You are god of the map, everyone is weak. They need to trade with you, not you with them.

5) One turn into Calendar and trade Drama for it. Or just tech Code of Laws and trade that for Calendar. But it's better if you get it quickly. Just please don't trade Music or Philo.

6) 3-4 GS, imho ignore Great Merchants for now. Get first GS from "weakest" GPP city and then go to strongest. 3 GS is minimum you should get (Petersburg, Yeka, Moscow?) Rostov is weak but it could get first GS for example. That way maybe you get 4 GS.

1x Academy in Moscow
2x Education
1x Lib

Actually, bulbing Chemistry probably won't be useful. Self-tech it and lib Steel later. Should get it ~500 AD latest. Then draft Muskets and kill stuff.

Great Merchant you can get later, he would just stand around and do nothing now.
 
Good job on winning Music, game is still looking good and winnable :). Even early Dom or Conquest should be possible later.

Ok, first thing... I think it's important to see that "friendly" Isa is completely (not completely, but 90%) useless to you. Keeping deals with Egypt should have been better. Soon you will kill 2-3 AIs and make friends like that.

Trade iron to Isa for Sugar + 6 gold? Moscow is unhappy. Don't accept copper from her, you need to build warriors for happiness.

Some micro... Yeka+Moscow working forest, could work better tiles (coast/grassland mine) ... Moscow should have a worker to build more cottages on grassland.

1) Start GA after reaching Code of Laws (-> switch into Paci/Caste System/Hereditary Rule) and make sure you can switch into Bureaucracy at the end of golden age (save 2 turns of anarchy)

2) Build wealth and put overflow into stone wonder when you get back stone... or build theatre (imho useless here).

3) aaaaaa ... don't give away or trade monopoly techs. Don't gift Isa ANYTHING except cannon damage for her cities soon. You get Code of Laws in 3 turns self-tech, why trade Music for it? :(

4) You should self-tech Code of Laws and start Civil Service yourself. Not wait for anyone. You are god of the map, everyone is weak. They need to trade with you, not you with them.

5) One turn into Calendar and trade Drama for it. Or just tech Code of Laws and trade that for Calendar. But it's better if you get it quickly. Just please don't trade Music or Philo.

6) 3-4 GS, imho ignore Great Merchants for now. Get first GS from "weakest" GPP city and then go to strongest. 3 GS is minimum you should get (Petersburg, Yeka, Moscow?) Rostov is weak but it could get first GS for example. That way maybe you get 4 GS.

1x Academy in Moscow
2x Education
1x Lib

Actually, bulbing Chemistry probably won't be useful. Self-tech it and lib Steel later. Should get it ~500 AD latest. Then draft Muskets and kill stuff.

Great Merchant you can get later, he would just stand around and do nothing now.

Thanks a lot! It looks like I mostly had right thoughts...However, I still underestimated monopoly techs. This lesson wasn't prepared at home correctly :mischief: I promise I will not trade it and even will not think about it. :) May be it is an ijury from childhood in Wardlords Deity where everything is too fast...

And it is a good idea to wait for stone and put overflow in some stone wonder. Only ~5 turns left.

About plans...I am thinking to get calendar, to get plantation on bananas and grow my cities a little more. I am hoping to get 5 GS (one should be from Rostov), it is 200+300+400+500+600 GPP = 2000 GPP. I am hope to get 1400 GPP from Moscow + Yeka+ St. Petersburg. During Golden Age for 8 turns it should be possible. I need only to calculate properly the food in cities and timing. So, may be I can start GA in 5-6 turns. So, first GS go into Academy, the second into Edu, third into Lid and fourth and fivth into Chemistry. Anyway, we will see...May be only one GS should go into Chemistry. But I really want to get 5 GS since during GA each spesialist gives 9 GPP and I have several big cities with good food.

About Isa...Yes, she is looking kind of useless. But on the other hand she almost hates others and also she doesn't like to trade much (40% or 60% AIs should know tech). So, may be it could be resonable to feed her with techs and than trade it. May I will try it when I finish the game. Know I tend trust your intuition and experience more than to mine. :thumbsup: Especially, when I saw how you did diplo in your game, so it is really strond and good understanding of AIs.
 
Bulbing Chemistry will be hard... if you get Education, you will actually bulb Printing Press first. So it's better just to self-tech Chemistry probably... You have to bulb Chemistry before Education, but that means you need Feudalism -> Guilds -> Gunpowder -> bulb Chemistry -> tech Paper -> bulb Education -> bulb Lib ..... too complicated.

Great Merchant might be better. Upgrade 20+ catapults.
 
Bulbing Chemistry will be hard... if you get Education, you will actually bulb Printing Press first. So it's better just to self-tech Chemistry probably... You have to bulb Chemistry before Education, but that means you need Feudalism -> Guilds -> Gunpowder -> bulb Chemistry -> tech Paper -> bulb Education -> bulb Lib ..... too complicated.

Great Merchant might be better. Upgrade 20+ catapults.

Oh! Thank you for noting it! Without enough experience it is easy forget get. In this case GM should be much better - either for upgraging or keeping research at 100%.
 
It is time to plaay!
Session 14.

Turn 102, 325 BC. Traded Iron to Isa for Shugar and 6 gpt. Did some micro. Started Calendar. I really want +1 happy from Dye and Banana plantation.

Turn 103, 300 BC. Parthenon was built. Which means that I will get some failgold. Yaro whipped worker. Yeka get size 10 and returned Calms to St. Peterburg.

Turn 104, 275 BC. Traded Drama for Calendar+70 Gold to Isa. Moscow is unhappy, but only for 1 turn. Started CoL.

Turn 105, 250 BC. Water supply was infiltraded in Yaro. It looks like it was Hanny. Also I saw this turn that Alex went WHEOOH. It shouldn't be me. Most probably Zara or Isa. Traded Calendar to Zara for Lit. Anyway, almost everyone has Calendar. Also Zara could declare on Hanny for Music+Drama+Calendar

Turn 106, 225 BC. Sold Lit to Alex. Sold Gems for 2 gpt.

Turn 107, 200 BC. Hyana came and akded for Drama. I didn't give him. Canceled stone to Hanny. Traded Gems to him instead of stone. Why am I so stupid? Why did I sell Gems to Alex last turn?...Also Hyana has 10 cities now...He is becoming so big.


I would stop here. It looks like I can start GA this turn.
Well...probably I should research CoL immediately before Calendar. Hence, it would save me a couple of turns. Also I messed a little with workers when farmed bananas instead of plantation. On the other hand, I did a homework with not trading monopolies very well. Also at 100% reseacrh I can finish CS in 6 turns. And...so far I have no questions :) But comments always are appreciated. Especially about mistakes (big and smalls). One small question - may be now it is time to sell Drama a little? To Hanny and other for some gold.

Cat200BC_techs.JPG
Cat200_land.JPG
 

Attachments

Session 15.

May be it would be good to calculate something...But I don't see any obvious reasons to delay GA. So, the next two session will be during GA.
Golden Age!

Turn 107, 200 BC. GA was started by Great Artist from Music. Revolted to HA/CS/Pasi. It looks lie I can get at most 4 Great People. Only Moscow can give 100+ GPP, hence it is impossible to get GP during three consequitive turns. Moscow, Yeka and St. Petersburg started GS at 70-90 GPP. Rostov started GM at 2-3 people.
Cat200_GA started.JPG



Turn 108, 175 BC. Traded Drama and CoL to Alex for Metal Casting. I am afraid that I need trade this turn, otherwise later I can be at top 3 and then most of AIs will not trade with me. Traded Drama to Zara for World Map and 40 gold. Traded Drama to Hanny for 90 Gold and got +1 trade relation and Pleased status. We can see that Hyana has two horses. But the second one is on Island...Lol. Anyway I throwed Drama to him for some trade relations. Anyway he will get it from AI. Hanny srarted stealing my tiles by culture. Hence I built Theatre in Yaro.


Turn 109, 150 BC. Traded Dye for Silk with Hyana and sold Cow for 4 gpt. Traded Music to Zara for Teology. It would be good to have some discount
for paper. Also I expected to trade Teology to Hanny for construction. But he is WFYBTA now.

Turn 110, 125 BC. Academy constructed in Moscow. Eventually Isa is Friendly. Traded Music+30 gold for Construction and Civil Service. It is fine that 2 AIs has Music. In this situation thay will not trade with others. Now I need watch out for my Music. Once the third AI got it I need to trade/sell it if possible for a good price. Unfortunately, I cannot finish Paper in 3 turns. Also I decided to chop granary in Yakuts.
Cat125BC_IsaFr.JPG



Turn 111, 100 BC. The second GS was born durin GA. This time in St. Petersburg. Hanny got Engenering. Which means pikes, but anyway I don't have horses so far. Isa found out to be pretty useless..She doesn't research at all...But Huana has 10 cities and The Greate Lighthouse. Pretty scary.
Cat100BC_demo.JPG



Turn 112, 75 BC. Alex declared on Isa. Renewd deals with Alex. Asked for 50 gold from Hanny. It is good enough since I need some gold.
Cat75BC_warAlex.JPG


Turn 113, 50 BC. Sold maps to everyone. The third GS was born. Edu was bulbed and started Gunpowder. Unfortunately a little miscalculated with GPP and Moscow starved by 1 pop. Also the fourth GS will bor after GA. Asked for 80 from Isa and she refused.
Cat50BC_stupid_Isa.JPG


Turn 114, 25 BC. Switched to Buero/Slavery/OR. It is time to build some forges. Unfortunately, I still need about 70 GPP for the last GS to
almost bulb Liberalism. Also...Egypt got horses...But I cannot speak with him...Lol. It was a big mistake to lick Isa's ass there...
Cat25BC_techs.JPG


Cat25BC_GA_ended.JPG


I would stop here.
A couple of question...

1) Where it is better to build Global Theatre?

2) Is it good to chop all the trees to cannons? I hope to get some cannon army at 1000 AD.

3) What do you think about my position? And did I do fine during GA? Also, don't pay attention to the current buildings and tiles. I will change some of them (e.g. Rostov)

4) Who should be my first victum? Hanny or may be Isa?...In the beginning I was thinking to go for Hanny, but now I think that Isa could be better. She has less techs and also she has shrine. After her I could go for Alex or Hanny.
 

Attachments

Yup looks good, Horses from Egypt would be nice of course... trade embargo like that is often a bad idea. Isa is useless as you see now :)

One "big" mistake here is the switch into OR/Slavery, I think. Only building you need is Forge (+Barracks). You can just slowbuild it. And you don't want to whip away population at this point in the game. You need strong research to get Chemistry for Steel lib. Forge, Barracks or Theatres don't help with that. Would run Paci until you reach Steel basically, then switch into Slavery+Theocracy (1 turn revolt doesn't matter).

OR can be nice if you are rushing early Oxford or building wonders, but I usually switch into OR very late, when I have 20 cities and GPP don't matter much anymore. Paci is too strong at this time of the game. Anyway, how do you want to get Great Merchant without Paci now?

1) St. Petersburg looks great. In this situation it would be very nice. You can draft 1 Musket (and later Rifle) every turn probably. Other cities can whip cannons.

2) Yes

3) GPP in GA were fine, but civic switch is a problem now. Position is still great of course. I mean, you don't "need" Great Merchant really. But it would be a much stronger attack and can make the difference between 700 AD attack and 1000 AD.

4) Probably Isa -> Alex, yup. Because Hannibal has friends and he will bribe Egypt vs you. And you can't do anything about it, because he won't talk with you :) ... Having Egypt at Pleased, you could just beg 1 gold. Actually I don't think Ramesses bribes vs you if he is pleased. Same with HC.

And Isa is useless. That's the kind of problems I saw when you stopped trading with him... but with big army and taking Isa+Alex you can kill them anyway, Hannibal/Ramesses are not very strong. And with all these vassals HC shouldn't be a problem. 10 cities is not much. He will probably go culture and you take him with Cannons/Artillery
 
Nice progress :)

Ramsie would talk again after some time (not one of those stubborn AIs i think), also HC will soon get 2nd horsies.
Or Zara, there are plenty east where we cannot be sure yet who connected them (or will do so).

I do not like globe, imo a waste of hammers in most games.
It's something like 300h for no unhappy, when happy resis on pangea are so plenty.

Your last GS could bulb Lib if you get compass (and wait with machinery), nice trade tech usually (and here too, 5 AIs do not know it).
Only useful for Cuirs line thou, which would be the faster way imo.
But i played enuf devils advocate in Lain's game lol ~~

Agree with Lain on trade embargos, i never agree to those when AIs want them :)
Well okay, maybe 1 out of 100 times..
 
Enough drinking and celebrating New Year. %)
Let's start session 16.

Yup looks good, Horses from Egypt would be nice of course... trade embargo like that is often a bad idea. Isa is useless as you see now :)

One "big" mistake here is the switch into OR/Slavery, I think. Only building you need is Forge (+Barracks). You can just slowbuild it. And you don't want to whip away population at this point in the game. You need strong research to get Chemistry for Steel lib. Forge, Barracks or Theatres don't help with that. Would run Paci until you reach Steel basically, then switch into Slavery+Theocracy (1 turn revolt doesn't matter).

OR can be nice if you are rushing early Oxford or building wonders, but I usually switch into OR very late, when I have 20 cities and GPP don't matter much anymore. Paci is too strong at this time of the game. Anyway, how do you want to get Great Merchant without Paci now?

1) St. Petersburg looks great. In this situation it would be very nice. You can draft 1 Musket (and later Rifle) every turn probably. Other cities can whip cannons.

2) Yes

3) GPP in GA were fine, but civic switch is a problem now. Position is still great of course. I mean, you don't "need" Great Merchant really. But it would be a much stronger attack and can make the difference between 700 AD attack and 1000 AD.

4) Probably Isa -> Alex, yup. Because Hannibal has friends and he will bribe Egypt vs you. And you can't do anything about it, because he won't talk with you :) ... Having Egypt at Pleased, you could just beg 1 gold. Actually I don't think Ramesses bribes vs you if he is pleased. Same with HC.

And Isa is useless. That's the kind of problems I saw when you stopped trading with him... but with big army and taking Isa+Alex you can kill them anyway, Hannibal/Ramesses are not very strong. And with all these vassals HC shouldn't be a problem. 10 cities is not much. He will probably go culture and you take him with Cannons/Artillery

Thanks a lot! Especially thanks a lot about poiting to stay in Caste System+Paci...By some reason I didn't consider it at all...So, probably I will switch back soon and will lose a couple of turns.

About the type of war I still didn't decide. But definetely it will not be Rifles rush. If would get horses I would chose cuirs. But the problem is that the horses belong to Ramesses...and may be it is those horses which are showed at the territory of Hyana. Well...so stupid going into demand of Isa. I will recall it every session %)


Nice progress :)

Ramsie would talk again after some time (not one of those stubborn AIs i think), also HC will soon get 2nd horsies.
Or Zara, there are plenty east where we cannot be sure yet who connected them (or will do so).

I do not like globe, imo a waste of hammers in most games.
It's something like 300h for no unhappy, when happy resis on pangea are so plenty.

Your last GS could bulb Lib if you get compass (and wait with machinery), nice trade tech usually (and here too, 5 AIs do not know it).
Only useful for Cuirs line thou, which would be the faster way imo.
But i played enuf devils advocate in Lain's game lol ~~

Agree with Lain on trade embargos, i never agree to those when AIs want them :)
Well okay, maybe 1 out of 100 times..

Thank you too! Well, I actually prefer Cuirs rush and I already did it a couple of times comparing to Cannons. Also I noted that the Globe Theatre is not good for it (usually new happy resis are enough to for whipping cuirs). Globe theatre is great for Rifle rush I think. Anyway, we will see, probably now it would be good to farm some more great people.



This session is short since I got some question again. %) So many question from me...But I hope that at least they will be usefull for another people looking for typical Deity conquest

Turn 114, 25 BC. Zara is plotting. I asked 60 gold from him and he refused...As I remember I didn't ask from him. Probably I asked too much.

Turn 115, 1 AD. Golded Age ended. Whipped forge in St. Petersburg, Rostov and Novgorod. Whipped lighthous in yakutsk. Mostly it was an average tiles. I put slider at 0% for a couple of turns.

Turn 116, 25 AD. Traded Theology to Alex for 90 gold and Horseback Riding. Isa is Friendly again, but she is so pathetic...Alex captured one of her cities. Some workers went to clear some jungles and other worker build roads and preparing to prechop forests. Overflow from missionaries went to buddist missionaries. Also Isa finished researching Divine Favour and Hanny switched to Civil Servise.

Turn 117, 50 AD. Yaro whipped forge (hammer tiles) and started working back its calms.


Questions.

1) Should I do trade something? It looks like Zara almost finished CS, hence I can trade it to him for 50 gold. However, other trades looks useless.

2) How should I traded the resousres?

3) Should I do something with the war Isa-Alex? (Alex captured one city)

Cat50AD_AlexIsa.JPG


4) What is it better to do for the workers? Jungle chop (+health) and farming looks okay. Also there is one farmed dye. Another option is mining hills (with forges they will be much better) and prechop forest and build a couple of roads.

5*) May be I can swith to Caste System-Pacifism (in the next 3-5 turns) and make about another 2 Great People? It also will give me some money from Great Merchant for teching. Hence my 'big' mistake will cost me only 1 turn of anarchy.

6*) Also I am still thinking about spreading buddism to Hanny to broke their relations with Egypt and Hyana. It is need just 3-4 missionaries.

Cat50AD_Hannybud.JPG
 

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Regarding 6), I'm not sure you can get Hammy to convert. Every city on the screen has Hindu. Maybe with a bribe he will switch, but for a start is he pleased with you to even make that possible? It would be a shame to waste hammers on 4 missionaries and dump them into an AI without getting the desired result.
 
Regarding 6), I'm not sure you can get Hammy to convert. Every city on the screen has Hindu. Maybe with a bribe he will switch, but for a start is he pleased with you to even make that possible? It would be a shame to waste hammers on 4 missionaries and dump them into an AI without getting the desired result.

Yes, he is pleased. And I saw in trading screen that "too few people follow buddism faith", which should mean that he loves us enough. But I don't know how many percent of cities (population?) should have buddism in order to allow switching. Also it is more difficult to spread religion to the cities with two religions. Well...probably it is just not worth it. Anyway, after finishing the game I can back here for fun and test. :)



On a side note: meanwhile I won Immortal in Warlords. :king: And this time without reloads at all (in Vanilla I had one reload). I would say, that I was quite lucky with rivals and diplo (in some sence similar to this game). However, also I started to understand the whole process of preparing to Cuirs/Cavs war better. And again - I didn't have horses...In the beginning I bought horses and then captured it. This gives me another hope that step by step I am becoming prepared for Deity from Vanilla to BtS.

Looking into this save I see so much difference with my old saves...:crazyeye: Also, if I would play from the beginning I would put more cottages near Moscow and work them harder. Another things - growing cities to size ~10 without much infra - it is not only potential for generation of Great People, but also for whipping Cuirs/Cavs army pretty fast (especially for the initial forces). And even city with 3 farms (just 3 food without commers) can be fine enough to whip some Cuirs/Cavs.
 
Yup 50g for CS from Zara.
Nice example why giving in on trade embargos is bad, CS will be traded soon and you could get Feuda probably for it from Ramsy ;)

Resis..at this point i only look for my own gains, not diplo anymore so probably 7g for clam or crabs or bananas from Ramsy, and another one of those for corn (gives +2 health). Could also get Zaras 5g for something, when in need for happy or health you have some old ones that could be cancelled like gems for Alex.

Letting them fight seems okay for now.

Workers are on small stuff currently yep, depends on individual city needs and tiles quality.
River tiles are usually worth being jungle removed.

Caste + Paci seems best, yup.
Lost track a bit on your teching plans thou :)

Would probably not bother with Reli spreads to AIs, all their cities have Hindu and often 2 Relis already (fail chance).
 
Yup 50g for CS from Zara.
Nice example why giving in on trade embargos is bad, CS will be traded soon and you could get Feuda probably for it from Ramsy ;)

Resis..at this point i only look for my own gains, not diplo anymore so probably 7g for clam or crabs or bananas from Ramsy, and another one of those for corn (gives +2 health). Could also get Zaras 5g for something, when in need for happy or health you have some old ones that could be cancelled like gems for Alex.

Letting them fight seems okay for now.

Workers are on small stuff currently yep, depends on individual city needs and tiles quality.
River tiles are usually worth being jungle removed.

Caste + Paci seems best, yup.
Lost track a bit on your teching plans thou :)

Would probably not bother with Reli spreads to AIs, all their cities have Hindu and often 2 Relis already (fail chance).

Fippy, Thank you again! :)
I am still not sure about teching plans. So, I trying to keep all possibilites (may be horses will be availaible some day).

Session 17.

Turn 117, 50 AD. Traded CS to Zara, canceled gems to Alex. Traded Dye to Zara for 5 gold since I will plant another dye soon.

Turn 118, 75 AD. Yaro put overflow into University of Sangore. May Zara will be build it since he has Paper.

Turn 119, 100 AD. Isa built Apostolic Palace. I voted for myself during voting. Gunpowder it. Teching plan is as follows. Bulb lib with the next GS leaving one turn for research, then try to bulb steel. Hence, I need now research compass, the bulb lib, trade for machinery and selftech chemistry. Canceled sheep for wine to Ramesses. WIth forges health becomes more improtant.

Turn 120, 125 AD. Isa came and asked for Philo. No way this time! But she is still friendly. Also Hyana and Zara know paper. But I will not hurry to trade it for Feudalism. Yaro whipped baracks since I want that start with the troops before the war and this will help to keep lower the whip anger. Also I want to farm the jungles near Yaro (otherwise the city will not be whipped effectively for troops), but by some reason I cannot built the farm...Anyway, I need destoy some cottages. Or, can have chain of irrigation from Hanny? Yeka and Yakutst whipped forges. Now I have forges everywhere! Revolted to Paci and Caste System to correct the mistake and finish the lib race.

Turn 121, 150 AD. Hannibal asked to convert religion. I refused. I will have Paci now. But he dropped to cautios. Hyana has Philo now...well...I need hurry with lib and with chemistry.
Cat150AD_Hanny.JPG



I would stop here. The tech situation is as follows. It looks like Hyana becomes very strong. Also I cannot trade with those who has who has Engeneering.
Cat150AD_Trades.JPG



Questions. I still have a few.

1) The next Great people will be GS in Yeka. What about the following ones? May be Great Merchant in St. Peterburg for prepared Cats? Or may be prepare GS (meaning that he will bulb Chemistry while I will get Printing Press). Also...Should I try to next another GM in Rostov?

2) Should I start to prebuild troops? Or may I can build buddist temples/monasteries for the additional hammers? Or may be Wealth/Research?

3) By some reason I cannot farm NE to Moscow (Is supposed that farmed Wheat go to Moscow and then spread from there, but may be it doesn't consieder as a farm?)

4) Should I consider building Oxford?...Without horses everything looks so complicated...
 

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3) By some reason I cannot farm NE to Moscow (Is supposed that farmed Wheat go to Moscow and then spread from there, but may be it doesn't consieder as a farm?)
Moscow is on a hill, so it won't chain irrigation
 
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