I will beat standard Deity by conquest once...With your advice:)

[elmurcis]

There is Isabella city borders just 2W from cows btw (can see in image.. maybe missed?). So barbs fog-busting that way should be no problem. Question is about NE way... how far is Hannibal and how many warriors would need there (4 would be great, extra costs money for support)... using scout and leaving Moscow without warrior at size 4 (you can do that if happy cap is 5) should help here too without extra cost

 

[MegaLurker]

I loaded this start up and got what I think is the earliest....

Spoiler :

Oracle date I've ever seen:

Good luck beating that

 

[RedKi-rr]

A small upate. I played until turn 26.

Turn 12. 3520 BC. Meet Greek, Alexander. He came somewhere from NE.

Turn 13. 3480 BC. Worker is finished. He goes to wheat. I continue researching Bronze Working. Warrior started.

Turn 16. 3360 BC. Meet Hyana Capac of Incas and Ramesses of Egyptю Meet them somewhere near NE borders.

Turn 26. 2960 BC. Bronze Working finished. No bronze nearby...

Also produces the second warrior and started settler (6 turn left). Worker made mine on pigs on then went to the forest and waited for bronze working.

What to reaserch next? AH for horses?...Or archery? Also who is the best put Spy point (among Izzy, Hannibal, Ramesses, Hyana Capac, Alex)? I guess Hannibal or Hyana Capac.

Is it risky to settle between stone and rice? I mean it is very close to Izzy, she has two cities, some others have tree cities. And later she can be angry. North East looks empty, a lot of jungles. So, I am planning to chop to settlers asap and settle them as planned. I not sure what is better to research here. Wheel is good, AH good but risky, Archery kind of safe.

Picture

 

[Lain]

Don't think archery is really needed here. Would put the warrior 1W of the dye on jungle hill to fogbust. And after settler is done build 2-3 warriors, not many directions barbs can come from.

So probably tech the wheel and build roads. 2nd and 3rd city should probably grab: 2xclam/stone/rice and the other one gems... after the wheel I would go: Fishing - Pottery - Writing - Aesthetics -> trade for Alpha + Animal Husbandry... gem city can just work gems at size 1 for 20+ turns, no big problem. A few cottages for the capital. Or you could move capital to sheep city with 4x flood plains and cottage there.

1) I would settle 1S of rice. Still a great city, but a bit closer and Izzy doesn't get annoyed. Leave cows to her.
2) Then I would settle 2N of pigs and work gems... no river, but you need some kind of food for that gem city. Or maybe this city first... because you can already improve gems and build road for that city when it finishes for instant connection. Then chop next settler.

1NE of clam in the east would be a nice city, too. That blocks enough land and you can easily get 6+ cities. That is enough for cuirs, I wouldn't bother with the jungle and I didn't in my game (I finished this game some days ago, too).

Spypoints probably on Hannibal. He is probably closer than Inca (you met him early) and maybe spypoints will be useful in later war. Both good techers.

 

[Fippy]

Looks like you are playing without any mods (no extended sliders), would you want suggestions for that?

Double clams + stone spot has highest priority (as Lain wrote)
I would make sure no barbs over there, and keep my units around.

I would then also try settling 1w or 1sw of Bananas 3rd, jungle city but a really good one (and has cows).
Possible you lose the spot, but worth trying. River + bananas + cows + dye that's really good even if much jungle early.

Do not worry too much about settling close to AIs like Isa, she's not a warmonger and if you get her Reli usually not too difficult on diplo. Blocking land = important on deity, and being close to some AIs will always happen.

 

[sossos]

Fishing is better than wheel for next tech. 6 cities can be connected with water without building any road. Not to mention the two clams.
Why is the worker waiting for BW? It's better to mine the hill at the tile 2S1W of capitol, 6h(Imp)1c!

 

[RedKi-rr]

I will play today tonight. Now I tend to produce the first settler asap and settle between calm and rice. Then may be 1-2 warriors. And then another 1-2 settlers asap. One goes for the hill near cows and other goes to the jungle near gems. And warriors go fogbust the North East.

Indeed, may be I need researh finish instead wheel...Worker will be busy with chopping anyway. On the other hand, the city between rice and calm should start with worker I guess?...Hence, fishing also can be delayed.

I agree with the misplay and waiting for chopping...In this situation it didn't matter when to start chopping, hence mining the hill should be pretty good. I would say - it is the first big mistake on micro.

Looks like you are playing without any mods (no extended sliders), would you want suggestions for that?

It's true. I don't know why, but by some reason I prefer vanilla games. May be it goes to the times when I triead a couple of bad modes and then forgot them forever.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Okay, lets start Session 3. I try to listen all your advice, but inside game the different thing can happen and I easily can forgot about them BtW, what about pictures and other things like it? Are they okay? Should I do more/less of them?...

Turn 27. 2920 BC. I decided to do wheel next. Put Spyspoint into Hannibal. Did some moves with the warriors.

Turn 29. 2840 BC. Lost scout to the barb archer...Tree chopped. So start to mining. I really don't know why I didn't do the previous mine.


Turn 30. 2800 BC. Settler finished. Overflow goes into warrior. Hence, it is 15 hammers and warriors can be finished next turn. I need some fogbust. After mining is finished I will chop anhother settler. Also I started regret that I didn't choose fishing...So, I switched to it. I considered it only from point of view of boats. But in fact, it is also some commers (+2 on calms and plus trading I guess?...). Well...another kind of mistake. May be I will replay some first saves (after finishing the game, of course)

Turn 31. 2760 BC. Warrior finished. I started to lose some money. Because warrior is a military unit, but scout is not. So many things about which I didn't think before...But I always read about it and wondered why people even care %)

Turn 32. 2720 BC. Alex offered open borders. Why not? He is not worst enemy of otehr AIs. On the hand - he can get foreign trade routes and it can boost him. Should we even care about it?...This is my only one concern. What do you think? Also, I continued fishing. It is in 4 turns since the last turn I collected money. Mine is finished and it is only 5 turns left for the next settler. Settlers become so fast with imp and with 2 green hills. May be I will chop again in order to produce two settlers in row.


Turn 33. 2680 BC. What forest to chop next?...I will chop 1N to the worker in order to avoid moving losses. Settler comes to the place and I settled it...Money dropped from -1 to -4 at 100% research (warrior becomes free, but city maintance 3 + civic upkeep 1). Hm...May be I should wait for fishing. On the other hand, I can start another worker faster. Need one more turn for fishing.

Turn 34. 2640 BC. Worker starts to chop forest. Question: should I keep the warrior at SW hill? When borders of St. Petersburg grow I cannot see only the corner forest. As I know, a city cannot spawn here. On the other hand - can barb units appear here? Also staying here I can prevent barb galleys as well.

Turn 35. 2600 BC. Stonehenge finished. Also Oracle was finished at 2840 BC (turn 29). Stonehenge is done by Egypt, Oracle is done by Spain. How is it for you?...Very early dates I guess...And that's why Spain has so high score. On the other hand, may be I can settle the cow spot. ^_^

Turn 36. 2560 BC. Forest is chopped. The way is cleared. And the barb archer appeared. Lol. BtW, all civs have 3 cities. One more moment. Recently I very fast lost a couple of games at Immortal in Warlords 2.08. I still wonder that AIs settle there very close to the players and towards his direction and still has a lot of land in the other directions.

Turn 37. 2520 BC. Fishing is done. But there are no trade routes...May be they will appear next turn?..Or may be I need sailing...I don't know exactly how it works. Workers go to chop 1NW forest. I think I will chop and overflow put into some military and then worker. Also, I will finish wheel in 2 turns.


Turn 38. 2480 BC. Still no trades routes...Also I got connection with Izzy and gave her wheat. Is it a right move? Anyway, I don't have trade connection with other civs. Also, moneuvre with warriors trying to put them together since the archer came closer to the hill.

Turn 39. 2440 BC. Wheel is done. I don't why, but I am tending towards archery now...Still no barbs from the jungle and no AIs from that direction. I remember you advice, but still kind of afraid of barb with such pretty nice land. I think I will stop here. Too stressfull to play serious games %)

 

[RedKi-rr]

Actually...what a lame with fishing. I remembered it wrongly. It is sailing allows to connect cities by rivers...
I remebmered something like it from the great Uconquered Sun's game
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/justinians-university-defeating-the-deities.242211/

Anyway. After this mistake I will remember it forever I guess.

Totally: a mistake on mining (lost about 7x2 hammers and 7 commers), losing scout to an arher, researching fishing (? - around 50 bakers?)...Also now I think - may be it would be better to grow to 2 and then build a worker?...

 

[Fippy]

I think you should move your warrior in moscow out, happy not needed there
Also the one far south fogbusts only 1 tile, might be worth risking him leaving too.

Archery seems a bit late, barb rush would already be on it's way now and if it's not coming before you could get an archer, then you are safe anyways. Deity AIs will close those gaps very soon.

Also i think it's important showing patience with the cow / bananas city, try avoiding fights against archers until you can get them across a river or so. Delaying that city is fine, it's not really good early (but an important one to have later imo).
With 2 warris for protection currently, it's too risky if archers can attack at ~50% odds. Would need 3.
It's great once settled when barbs attack your hill city across a river, but not sure if you can move there yet.

 

[sossos]

Actually...what a lame with fishing. I remembered it wrongly. It is sailing allows to connect cities by rivers...
I remebmered something like it from the great Uconquered Sun's game
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/justinians-university-defeating-the-deities.242211/

Anyway. After this mistake I will remember it forever I guess.

Totally: a mistake on mining (lost about 7x2 hammers and 7 commers), losing scout to an arher, researching fishing (? - around 50 bakers?)...Also now I think - may be it would be better to grow to 2 and then build a worker?...

sailing can allow all coastal cities connected no matter how far between them, but fishing can get these 6 connected(or to be accurate, trade routes available)

Spoiler :

 

[RedKi-rr]

sailing can allow all coastal cities connected no matter how far between them, but fishing can get these 6 connected(or to be accurate, trade routes available)

Yes, it is true. But it is need to research sailing as well. By some reason I thought than fishing alone is enough

I think you should move your warrior in moscow out, happy not needed there
Also the one far south fogbusts only 1 tile, might be worth risking him leaving too.

Archery seems a bit late, barb rush would already be on it's way now and if it's not coming before you could get an archer, then you are safe anyways. Deity AIs will close those gaps very soon.

Also i think it's important showing patience with the cow / bananas city, try avoiding fights against archers until you can get them across a river or so. Delaying that city is fine, it's not really good early (but an important one to have later imo).
With 2 warris for protection currently, it's too risky if archers can attack at ~50% odds. Would need 3.
It's great once settled when barbs attack your hill city across a river, but not sure if you can move there yet.

Hmm...Three warriors for safety? Thanks for a tip! I will keep it in mind. It looks like I missed the deadline for preparing for barbs through research, so I need to it using a warriors meat So, it could be 6-9 warriors for the front. With a good production capital it shouldn't be difficult.

I will not hurry with the settling of the city then. First - I will explore with those two warriors. Then I will be waiting for Izzy's settlers may be. Meanwhile I need settle the gems city.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Trade routes on rivers inside your own borders do not require Sailing.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Trade routes on rivers inside your own borders do not require Sailing.

Good to know! Thank you. Also, I just tested it again...and found out that it doesn't require even fishing. I believe that it is related only to one river. That is it shouldn't work along the coast which is inside the borders and connect two rivers. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also I played again on Immortal Warlords. And this time...I played with Cathy! And I was surpised that she did so well. I am not sure whether I am so lucky with her or it is just easier to play with her, but I always got something better comparing to other leader. However, her traits are far from Industrious/Philosophical/Financial...Lol. This time I even had to study how to play without happiness in the beginning, so I even researched calender myself, which I never did. Moreover, the cities has -1 happines/health comparing to BtS Deity. You may wonder why I talk about it... Actually, it is another ispiration to continue this game getting a special help from Cathy I will do an update soon and then will go for a one week trip.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I played until turn 50. Again, thanls a lot for your advice! Indeed, warriors was enough against barbs. For me it was important. Now I have 4 cities. So, some update and pictures. And see you after 10 days or so. I mean, please comment, I will try read and post, but I will not be able to play.


Session 4.

Turn 40. 2400 BC. Settler chopped in Moscow. Barb archer forced me to go back. I hope he will go to Izzy's direction.

Turn 41. 2360 BC. Overflow from chopping went into worker (if I put into warriot then I will lose 9 hammers). Need more workers and warriors.
Worker started mining gems.

Turn 42. 2320 BC. Opened borders with Izzy. Some diplo at least.

Turn 43. 2280 BC. One warrior died to archer, but archer is red now. Other warrior wasn't attacked...anyway. I will defeat the red archer. Also settled Novgorod. I guess it is a good place. Also it can defend through the river against bars. My income become + 11 now.

Turn 44. 2240 BC. Gems are done. Now everything should go better Also I decided to put the settler on hill. Barb warrior is wounded and at 1.5/2. But has a promotion. I think he will not attack my hill. Moscow produces more warriors. Having gems I decided to go for sailing. It should be a lot of trade routes with Izzy It will be finished in 6 turns. Warrior from the south started going to the north, just in case.

Turn 45. 2200 BC. My hill warrior won. But I dont settle the forth city so far.

Turn 48. 2080 BC. My hill warrior won again against archer. The next barb warrior came.

Turn 49. 2040 BC. My another hill warrior won barb warrion. North east jungles are safe. Carth's scout are moving there. Also I see that Hannybal can liberate some of his cities...which means that he is probably the closest to north east. I need to settle elephants soon.

Turn 50. 2000 BC. Sailing is in. Now I have +19 at 0% research. Traded sailing for pottery with Alex. Settled the 4 city and saw a settler of Spain...I got only -2 coins for that settling due to having trade route +2. Also I can close borders with Spain in 2 turns if needed.

I think I will stop here. Turn 50 is a good date.

Any suggestions?...Is the progress fine? Some particular quesions.

1) Should I go to Myst and Poly for some failgold?...Or it better just beeline Aest since Alpha is already owned by Alex? Or may be it is good to go masonry?...Just 6 turn at 50% research. And then gen Mids with that stone. ^_^

2) What about city on the hill 2E of elephants?..Should it be the next city? Should a little delay it by preparing a settler?...

3) Should I trade with Alex trade gems for crabs? Or may be take wheat from Izzy and trade it for crabs?..

And I am still not in slavery.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Or...just opened demographics. Probably I am in fine position here.

 

[Fippy]

Doing great, some small suggestions would be using stone tile in St. Peters now for faster boat.
Or not completing the warrior in Novgo for now, you are save and already pay 3g / turn for them
(i like checking those costs from time to time, and not building more units if they are already high).

Using only (or almost) 100% and 0% science slider works better than looking for ~50%.
(Bug mod would help you with it's faster + - sliders)

You would be late on Pyras probably, and also not that many forests left.
Myst and Poly are not good.

Hmm i would tech AH before writing, i think it's too useful now compared to later via trades.
Trying for small trades with Alex would probably not work, often they get those techs rather fast from other AIs.

With Agri + hunting you get the small research bonus (also for AIs having AH already), and then again for writing so it's cheap.
Moscow can use Pigs after settlers, sheep for a floodplains city, and also cows in Rostov.

Jungle Eles can be improved without IW if you need more happy.

Not easy on Jumbo city, it's not really good but Hanni might steal your spot there soon.
Knowing AIs, he did probably settle something with sugar by now..i guess it's better settling south of PH.
Allows chopping a boat too. I would then move one of your moscow hill workers after mining for a road NE of moscow (1 turn faster settle, hurry is good) + chopping afterwards.

With no happy needs, you could trade your gems for a while yup.
Best doing so early, so you can cancel later as needed.

 

[MegaLurker]

You may end up losing that stone to Isa's culture, that's her holy city there.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Doing great, some small suggestions would be using stone tile in St. Peters now for faster boat.
Or not completing the warrior in Novgo for now, you are save and already pay 3g / turn for them
(i like checking those costs from time to time, and not building more units if they are already high).

Using only (or almost) 100% and 0% science slider works better than looking for ~50%.
(Bug mod would help you with it's faster + - sliders)

Fippy, thanks a lot for your replies and suggestions. I am sorry, I couldn't reply these days, just in the trip and away from PC. So, only read from the phone. I hope after a couple of days I continue, actually I am dreaming the whole weak about my Cathy's games, and even want to try her in Vanilla Deity .

You know, before this game I never checked and payed attention to unit upkeeping... But with the slow playing it looks so natural. It is a good point about not finishing the warrior. Do you think that the current numbers are enough? I am still concern about barbs, but also want to save some money.

Yes, I mostly use binary research. I put 50% just to show the actual (more or less) number of turns which are needed for the reseacrh. So far, I don't have other sources of money.

You would be late on Pyras probably, and also not that many forests left.
Myst and Poly are not good.

Hmm i would tech AH before writing, i think it's too useful now compared to later via trades.
Trying for small trades with Alex would probably not work, often they get those techs rather fast from other AIs.

With Agri + hunting you get the small research bonus (also for AIs having AH already), and then again for writing so it's cheap.
Moscow can use Pigs after settlers, sheep for a floodplains city, and also cows in Rostov.

AH is a good on the one hand. On the other hand I will settle the 5th city soon and writing with cheap libraries will ge good asap. Anyway, I tend to trust your intuition more than mine intuition.

Jungle Eles can be improved without IW if you need more happy.

Not easy on Jumbo city, it's not really good but Hanni might steal your spot there soon.
Knowing AIs, he did probably settle something with sugar by now..i guess it's better settling south of PH.
Allows chopping a boat too. I would then move one of your moscow hill workers after mining for a road NE of moscow (1 turn faster settle, hurry is good) + chopping afterwards.

With no happy needs, you could trade your gems for a while yup.
Best doing so early, so you can cancel later as needed.

Good point about the micro on road. Here also I don't know what it better - settle on PH or on 1S of PH. I just cannot see a clear argument that one case is better than other. Anyway, I tend to trust you more than to myself

BtW, what about citie son the South West part? 3S2W from Moscow? 1N from Sheeps or PH 3W from Moscow?..

Fippy, I want to ask you one more question. What other Civs 1-6 do you play? Which level?

 

[Fippy]

Writing is important yup, it's just that AH gives a bonus on writing and you already get several boni for AH too.

I played Civ 2&3, cannot remember difficulty but i always try deity at some point
1 Civ eats enuf time thou lol
5&6 are not Civs for me, but it's just an opinion.