I wish the mod did "this" because it's like that in real life.

[pineappledan]

Now that I understand this, I'm inclined to agree with the other comments that ask about oil refining. Maybe they could actually be split into three different buildings. And you build the one you need.

I would just make the maintenance cost higher and take out the 3.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Now that I understand this, I'm inclined to agree with the other comments that ask about oil refining. Maybe they could actually be split into three different buildings. And you build the one you need. Of course you don't want an overabundance either. Even war mongers should be forced to trade lol

The Germans were very successful in transforming coal into oil in WW2. It would be a very realistic option to integrate such a building.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Personally I really like the Refineries as they are. I've never really had a shortage of oil tbh, it's one of the resources I don't worry about as much.

And I think requiring the knight to have two different strategics and being stronger as a result is a bit overkill? Like, requiring two resources to build seems silly, it would be the only unit in the game to do that lol. And for it to be strong enough to be worthwhile it would effectively dominate the era if you did have those resources. Seems like it would mess up the balance we have currently have IMO.

 

[Gidoza]

If a feature wasn't in MOO2, it honestly shouldn't be in 4x. MOO2 was perfection personified, and anyone who disagrees is not a human being

I mean it was conceptually perfect, but the balance was crap. We need a VP for MOO II. I've seen some mods and there's also one major popular one, but I also think it's crap.

 

[Bryan317]

Personally I really like the Refineries as they are. I've never really had a shortage of oil tbh, it's one of the resources I don't worry about as much.

And I think requiring the knight to have two different strategics and being stronger as a result is a bit overkill? Like, requiring two resources to build seems silly, it would be the only unit in the game to do that lol. And for it to be strong enough to be worthwhile it would effectively dominate the era if you did have those resources. Seems like it would mess up the balance we have currently have IMO.

Actually.... your point is well taken and I think you've convinced me LOL I guess I'm remembering incorrectly as well thinking that vanilla did have this. I think it just required iron instead of horses. Yeah I got to say this one would really destroy game Mechanix. However... Knights did rule the battlefield in their time, until gunpowder. Admittedly I'm still on the stable version, but all these Horsemen type units seem to get killed in one shot by cities and basically anything if you leave them open. So they couldn't be too over exploited lol

 

[JamesNinelives]

Admittedly I'm still on the stable version, but all these Horsemen type units seem to get killed in one shot by cities and basically anything if you leave them open.

I'm not sure, but I think that (city ranged attacks) is going to be changed in the next patch!

Cavalry units certainly shouldn't be one-shotted by ranged attacks lol.

 

[Bryan317]

Or here's a goofy suggestion. Knights get a terrifying enemy modifier lol. But anyways. A lot of these gripes are because I feel all the horsemen/tank units are being killed too easily. I do like the idea that you should have to protect them more and keep them away from cities. But one shot? Dang. In fact I have to say, in this game anyways, once I realized they were getting picked off like that I figured an infantryman was better every time I had the choice to build. Tanks are ok but they are easily killed too. If you can't pull them back after attack. They're dead. On one hand though... they are kinda right. An invasion scenario in the game has to play out similar to real life. The Invader doesn't move their tanks in first. Well maybe on land, but definitely not a sea landing. The Infantry have to take the beach head first to make a path for the tanks to move in. If you storm in with your tanks they'll just be destroyed by defensive installations. So... Good job devs. Good job

 

[Bryan317]

Strategic Defense Systems... Nuclear weapons are WAY too expensive to have a 50% chance of them doing nothing. Fighters should hopefully help with Atomic Bombs but by the time Nuclear Missiles are built the players should just have to deal with the mayhem. Doesn't this just make people wish they picked the random seed generator and reload? I suppose this might make sense if there are a lot of atomic weapons in the game. But that's certainly not the case in my game here. Uranium seems awfully scarce. I only have 4 local and I'm importing 6. And I'm definitely the largest country

 

[Stalker0]

Strategic Defense Systems... Nuclear weapons are WAY too expensive to have a 50% chance of them doing nothing. Fighters should hopefully help with Atomic Bombs but by the time Nuclear Missiles are built the players should just have to deal with the mayhem. Doesn't this just make people wish they picked the random seed generator and reload? I suppose this might make sense if there are a lot of atomic weapons in the game. But that's certainly not the case in my game here. Uranium seems awfully scarce. I only have 4 local and I'm importing 6. And I'm definitely the largest country

One nuke on an enemy tradition capital basically takes them out of the game. Its not like you need a lot.

 

[Stalker0]

I mean it was conceptually perfect, but the balance was crap. We need a VP for MOO II. I've seen some mods and there's also one major popular one, but I also think it's crap.

Gidoza's a bot!!!!!

 

[Gidoza]

Gidoza's a bot!!!!!

Shrug.

 

[Bryan317]

One nuke on an enemy tradition capital basically takes them out of the game. Its not like you need a lot.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Maybe if they are a smaller civ. My enemy Austria here, has a military score of 1400, while I have 550. I have an Atomic Bomb and almost done with 2 nuke missiles. Atomic bombs already have to deal with plane interception. If none of these hit I wasted like 30 turns LOL. I suppose I would argue that the Strategic Defense is definitely available too early. First of all you're only going to have a good chance with an atomic bomb if you're actually the first to invent the Manhattan Project. (I didnt. She did. She nuked me twice. Killed half the population in a city but other than that, I barely noticed) By the time everybody else can build them you should have planes. And nuclear missiles are so ridiculously expensive by the time you get them, everyone should be ready and the end of the game is wrapping up soon. Well I'm about 600/750 turns. I'll probably start The Invasion today or tomorrow. If I can get one of these to land on Vienna and then I just roll over them, I'll stand corrected. I suppose with these factors, it could be argued it's better to just use the nuke strategically against units. Don't get me wrong your point is well taken, but something that takes 10000 hammers to produce shouldn't have a 50% chance of doing nothing. I'm all for the Strategic Defense helping (minimizing damage) but NO EFFECT?... that's brutal. I'll even play The Devil's Advocate here and say maybe you're implying that if I can get one of these nukes to land, but still can't fully invade, she will still be knocked out of first place? We'll see.

 

[vyyt]

@Bryan317 , unless something changed, I think A bombs cannot be intercepted by fighters / AA guns. It was discussed, but the devs (@Gazebo?) said that it was technically impossible / or the animation would not work? I hope I remember correctly.

 

[Bryan317]

@Bryan317 , unless something changed, I think A bombs cannot be intercepted by fighters / AA guns. It was discussed, but the devs (@Gazebo?) said that it was technically impossible / or the animation would not work? I hope I remember correctly.

If this is true you can slap a noob sticker on my forehead. Maybe I should have waited until the war to complain LOL. But it's a guarantee she's going to have Strategic Defense in her cities so I'll still have a 50% chance. In the end, I had a choice to make. Waste my two best hammer cities making ICBM or more standard units. I'm a wide warmonger, so maybe more military units was supposed to be the right choice for me. Where nuclear missiles are for the small guys to hold me off LOL

EDIT: I quickly declared war and tested this and the AB did go right through so I'm inclined to believe you are correct. Could anyone quickly answer if it's more effective if it's a direct hit, or does the city take the same damage as long as its within the blast radius? I thought I was a pro at this game but let's face it we've all probably spent the least amount of time in the information era LOL

 

[Recursive]

Strategic Defense Systems... Nuclear weapons are WAY too expensive to have a 50% chance of them doing nothing. Fighters should hopefully help with Atomic Bombs but by the time Nuclear Missiles are built the players should just have to deal with the mayhem. Doesn't this just make people wish they picked the random seed generator and reload? I suppose this might make sense if there are a lot of atomic weapons in the game. But that's certainly not the case in my game here. Uranium seems awfully scarce. I only have 4 local and I'm importing 6. And I'm definitely the largest country

New Random Seed doesn't do much and hasn't for a long time, because it interfered with game stability, particularly in MP.

 

[vyyt]

@Bryan317 , hahaha, noooooobbbb!!! Just joking

If I remember correctly, the A bomb mechanic was something bizzare like that the A bomb is actually a melee unit which is teleported to the target city where it explodes. It would have to be changed to an air unit, but then the shroom cloud animation would stop working or something like that. It is explained in some old A bomb thread in the General Balance subforum.

 

[Bryan317]

@Bryan317 , hahaha, noooooobbbb!!! Just joking

If I remember correctly, the A bomb mechanic was something bizzare like that the A bomb is actually a melee unit which is teleported to the target city where it explodes. It would have to be changed to an air unit, but then the shroom cloud animation would stop working or something like that. It is explained in some old A bomb thread in the General Balance subforum.

Ok gotcha than we work with what we have here. I suppose I have a new found appreciation for the nuclear mechanics. I probably wouldn't be griping if I was on Diety surrounded by trigger happy civs with nukes. The AB plane interception is a perfect topic for this thread and its important it be answered. It can't be done. NOW the strategic defense makes sense as well! Thank you. My only comment on this is that when actually playing a game, the player wont just accept the loss of a nuke lol. They will probably get as many to land as possible then try again next turn. Perhaps this help balance... but I wish there was another way (just less damage) Reminds me of Total War games where everything worked on % chance to work. You obviously just kept trying until it worked. You never took the loss LOL

 

[pineappledan]

Code limitations. Functionally, the nukes operate more like melee units than air units. they can't be intercepted.

 

[Rekk]

Is there a way for the explosion to happen at the end of the user's turn, or at the beginning of the target's turn?

That would give the target time to launch their own nukes before the cities are just captured.

 

[Bryan317]

Is there a way for the explosion to happen at the end of the user's turn, or at the beginning of the target's turn?

That would give the target time to launch their own nukes before the cities are just captured.

I LIKE this. For Atomic Bombs at least. That would give a more realistic difference between them and Missles. Something to consider, if this were even possible, that the other player could move their units out of the way. This would be a cool difference between atomic bombs and missiles