[IDEAS] Fallen Ages

[cyther]

Quick question. Did Xienwolf lift the limit on the number of civs for FF? I remember hear about there being a limit of 50 now.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Kael lifted it from 18 (I think) in normal BtS to 40 in FfH, but then lowered it again to 35 since FfH at the time didn't have enough leaders for them to all be unique with 40 in the game. I think Xienwolf lifted it again, pehaps to 50, since FF had more leaders.

 

[cyther]

Thanks, Magister. I nearly have the map done now and sneakily added in the Cult of Nikito Civ to show up . If lemonjelly doesn't object I think I'll keep it in.

 

[Tasunke]

So, civ appearances are all but completed now? Or was it just with the Nikito cult

 

[xienwolf]

Limit is 50, but also remember there are 3 Barbarians. So you need the Orcs as 50, Animals as 51, and Demons as 52, for a grand total of 53 slots (not sure precisely what information you need for a map setup)

 

[cyther]

Ok, here is a beta map to be used with FF+ with I believe is what this mod will eventually be based off of. If it is working right it should give you a few errors that talk about Aifons, Nikito and Shapeshifters. If you get errors besides that please tell me in this thread.


This is only a map not any XML and python editing and I really can't make very drastic map changes due to the fact that I am running 3.19.

It is also not final because many of these civs will not appear until the Age of Rebirth and some of them will be gone by then.

 

[lemonjelly]

Fallen ages

And I don't mind the CoN being in it. But can somebody email the map to callooke@googlemail.com please because I can't download it

 

[cyther]

Sent it to you, hope you get it.



Edit: Do you think that we should open a new thread in the FF+ Subforum or get this one moved there? The modmod, once we get to the actual ModModing will require it so it would confuse a lot less people is it moved now.

 

[lemonjelly]

Yeah thanks and

Yes, can somebody move it please?

 

[Valkrionn]

Haha, so this is a modmodmodmod then?

 

[cyther]

TO MUCH MOD!

Anyways I think I found something down in Mod Components that we might be able to use to dictate the spawning of civs based on era. Once FF updates I'll take a look at what it can do.


Also you should probably PM a moderator to get this moved.

 

[Sifaus]

Wow! Very Exciting project, Good luck!

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Haha, so this is a modmodmodmod then?

New goal: to be the first guy to do a First Fall mod.


modmodmodmodmod FTW

 

[Tasunke]

Perhaps the thread should somehow be renamed to Fallen Ages?

 

[lemonjelly]

yeah, thanks cypher, I got it, but it won't open :s

I unzipped it into privatemaps for FF+, and when I loaded it up, it got as far as Initialising Graphics, then it CtD

BUT, if I run it on FFH, on turn 1, I get an automatic 'you've been destroyed.' Then it takes me to the playback screen thing. But I can only see half of the map. The other half is complete black...

Does anybody know how to change this?

[EDIT] But the half I can see looks very, very good!

 

[Korias]

New goal: to be the first guy to do a First Fall mod.


modmodmodmodmod FTW

Oh.. Oh God...

Maybe we should just shorten that down to Mod^5

As far as the map goes, I've been having the same issues. But I've also gotten some ideas as for other things that we may need to consideration.

Because of this going over the whole timeline, we may have to cover the whole fact that Death Mana wont be avaliable until a certain point due to the fact of that one guy stealing the gem from which it flows. Time Limit restrictions on Mana might be an interesting thing to think about, as the various gods's thoughts on Erebus shift.

A facet of the Rhyes and Fall of Civilization mod, stability might be an issue. However, perhaps there is a way to eliminate this to a greater degree, as FfH/FF/FF+/Orbis/(insert Mod here) have the option for Minor Leaders. Perhaps when running Republic, City States, or something similar, you can have part of your actual empire break off into an allied AI faction using a Minor Leader, either as a Team Member or as a highly friendly vassal. This was partially seen in the way that Shatner revolted into Republic in his Amurite AAR, and seems to be an interesting thing to do to improve stability. Obviously we would need to add a "Stability" civic catagory, I suppose.

While only Decius and the Jotnar have it, Conqueror creates an issue with letting other civs maintain their cultural values. Would these civs that have been conquered have a greater chance to revolt back into power, or would they stay complacent? Perhaps tying these factors to civics might be interesting, or creating an event every time you conquer a Civ to decide how you treat them, ranging from "Members of our Civ" (Low revolt chance, -15% production/culture or some other penalty) to "Slaves of the Master Civ" (High Revolt chance, +20% production, maybe an unhappy face?)


This might also mean that Decius could eventually reform Patria if given the chance, Nullifying the Scions (Unless he manages to fails before they appear).

How do we include the events that occured? Things like the Fall of Cuantine might be interesting to include as it gives the chance for Decius Malakim/Calabim instead of just Bannor, The Momus's events could lead to which leader is chosen for the Luchiurp, perhaps giving a bonus to Diplomacy with them if you help them out in the events, ect. We may need to tie these into the "Civ Switch" code, from what I can tell.

Once the Compact has been signed, it may be broken again, it seems. Beyond Hyborem and Basium, FF+'s Broken Compact Leaders, while in danger of being removed, may be interesting to include. Otherwise, we could go the opposite way and prevent Hyborem from leaving Hell Terrain, and some other restriction on Basium. But its been stated that there is more than one Gate and there are far more Balors out and about than just Hyborem, as per Ethne building a gate and the Lord of the Balors Scenario.

 

[lemonjelly]

Originally Posted by Mana
Because of this going over the whole timeline, we may have to cover the whole fact that Death Mana wont be avaliable until a certain point due to the fact of that one guy stealing the gem from which it flows. Time Limit restrictions on Mana might be an interesting thing to think about, as the various gods's thoughts on Erebus shift.

urrrm yeah, limits on Death Mana seem good, but no mana can be used until the Age Of Magic anyway, and most of the knowledge is lost in the Age Of Ice,so perhaps make it only available in the Age Of Rebirth?

Originally Posted by Stability
A facet of the Rhyes and Fall of Civilization mod, stability might be an issue. However, perhaps there is a way to eliminate this to a greater degree, as FfH/FF/FF+/Orbis/(insert Mod here) have the option for Minor Leaders. Perhaps when running Republic, City States, or something similar, you can have part of your actual empire break off into an allied AI faction using a Minor Leader, either as a Team Member or as a highly friendly vassal. This was partially seen in the way that Shatner revolted into Republic in his Amurite AAR, and seems to be an interesting thing to do to improve stability. Obviously we would need to add a "Stability" civic catagory, I suppose.

Ooooohhhhh... I like stability! And, yeah them ideas are great!, But the Scions are already the rebirth of the Patrians, and I'd like to keep it that way.
I did have an idea, that in the AoR, there is a chance that any city ruins that used to be Patrian would have a chance to turn into a Scions city.

And, yeah another civic option... BTW, is it possible to make a drop-down menu, so you could only see one civic group at a time?

Originally Posted by Conqueror
While only Decius and the Jotnar have it, Conqueror creates an issue with letting other civs maintain their cultural values. Would these civs that have been conquered have a greater chance to revolt back into power, or would they stay complacent? Perhaps tying these factors to civics might be interesting, or creating an event every time you conquer a Civ to decide how you treat them, ranging from "Members of our Civ" (Low revolt chance, -15% production/culture or some other penalty) to "Slaves of the Master Civ" (High Revolt chance, +20% production, maybe an unhappy face?)


This might also mean that Decius could eventually reform Patria if given the chance, Nullifying the Scions (Unless he manages to fails before they appear).

I think an option would be good, but these cities would always have a chance to re-spawn their other civ. Perhaps the options would be the chance to revolt, and the chance for the spawning civ to be on their team, friendly, pleased, upset or furious with the conquering civ.

Originally Posted by The Scenario Arc
How do we include the events that occured? Things like the Fall of Cuantine might be interesting to include as it gives the chance for Decius Malakim/Calabim instead of just Bannor, The Momus's events could lead to which leader is chosen for the Luchiurp, perhaps giving a bonus to Diplomacy with them if you help them out in the events, ect. We may need to tie these into the "Civ Switch" code, from what I can tell.

I wasn't planning on including the scenarios, but it could be a good idea. But it would have to be optional, like, play the Splintered Court scenario and perhaps get some extra settlers, adepts, archers ect. OR don't play it and finish the game quicker.

Originally Posted by The Compact
Once the Compact has been signed, it may be broken again, it seems. Beyond Hyborem and Basium, FF+'s Broken Compact Leaders, while in danger of being removed, may be interesting to include. Otherwise, we could go the opposite way and prevent Hyborem from leaving Hell Terrain, and some other restriction on Basium. But its been stated that there is more than one Gate and there are far more Balors out and about than just Hyborem, as per Ethne building a gate and the Lord of the Balors Scenario.

Well, the Aifons had the chance to break the compact, Cassiel broke it, Hyborem and Basium broke it, the Illians broke it, so why can't anybody else?
Perhaps make it an emergency-only thing, like only one city left, and the AC at 90 or more?

Or make it only possible in the Age Of Hell idea I had, after Acopalypse, where the world is full of Demons, perhaps then the leaders would be willing to bring their gods into creation.



So, what do people think about the Age Of Hell?

Is it a good idea?

Would you play it?



And what about the ideas above?
Good or bad?
What would make you play them ect.?

x

 

[Tasunke]

Firstly, on Mana, Fire mana should not be allowable to evil (or neutral civs) until the Fall of Bhall. In fact, im wondering if Fire mana should only be allowed for worshipers of Bhall, and then when that religion is destroyed, upon the fall of Bhall, the fire access is from then on open to everyone.

I think the Death Magic should be allowable at age of magic, and on certain Patrian casters before that age.

Primarily because I see the early battlles being between the Undead and Sorcerors of Patria and the Mobs of vigilantes let by priests of Bhall.

I also think that Lizardmen and Centaurs should be powerful permanent summons during the Patrian age and the Age of magic, and after a time, maybe at the end of the age of magic, all Lizard units should join the Mazatl, and the Mazatl should begin in some tucked away jungle, and after the age of Ice the Cualli should branch off from them. If possible, the converted lizards should be transported to the Mazatl starting location somehow.

 

[lemonjelly]

yeah, a whole two ages without fire mana? sounds good!

Because it goes
AoC - no magic anyway
AoM - fire magic only for good civs
AoI - only amurites have magic
AoR - finally everyone can get it!
AoH - only evil civs can get it?

And, didn't Patria form in the AoM, because the compact had been signed?
So, the Patrian casters would get Death Mana anyway? :S

Unless, you give certain Patrian units that aren't spellcasters get death spells.

x

 

[Tasunke]

hehe, Well, I guess Patria does form in the large age of Magic. I just see the Age of magic in two parts.

In one part, Patria is the dominant civ similar to Rome in the Classic age, if even more overbearing, (the metaphore only works if you look at the mediterranean as ALL of erebus) and then in another part (im thinking later part after the two peasant rebellions, I think the second rebellion was led by Kylorin) but in the second, later part, there are many nations equally battling for supremacy, ect. It is in this second half of the age of magic where I see 3 basic powerhouses forming, The Patrian Lords, the Luichurp, and the Bannor. The Patrian lords would be the most widespread but not allied or anything, they might even end up fighting each other. Probably broken into several civs, namely the Shieam, the Balseraph, (the Aiphons?), and a couple others (including Laroth, who should probably govern the Spirit god civ, which I guess should be recreated at this time with Laroth as their leader, and this civ should be created in the Isle that will later be called the Land of the Dead, when Tebryn occupies it later and covers the well of death. Each would be a master in their own sphere, and lots of undead units probably. Their main enemy would be the Bannor, and their mobs of peasants.

The Luichurp would be the main enemy of Mulcarn when he first enters Erebus, although a few others would fight against him as well. Perhaps the elves?

I know the Malakim and Sidar could only be created after the Age of Ice, as well as the Kuriotates, because the leaders of Malakim and Sidar were forming their nations while Auric was a teenager. In addition, the books of Laroth were taken by Sandalphon during this time I believe, so the Sidar and their shades couldnt exist until the age of Rebirth, around the same time as the birthing of the Malakim, or a couple turns later. Maybe start with a couple Shades to jumpstart their builder theme. ( a couple free Great People in the beginning in the form of Shades, can only be joined to cities. Sure it "could" be used aggresively, but at least they can afford to be defensive and turtle if they already have a couple great people to work with)

My Initial statement was that the Age of Magic starts out with Patria as the main boss, and then somewhere in the middle Patria splits up into the various magical lords (because Kylorin leaves and has his little rebellion), and the Bannor and Luichurp take center stage, I would imagine.

The Patrian Lord characters I would see as particularly powerful would be Perpentach, Tebryn Arbandi, and Laroth. meanwhile Trenton majosi is a goody goody and a wild card. Perhaps at this time, as Perpentach has not yet been locked in the tower, should not get the insane trait, but instead should have arcane, aggresive, and charismatic.

I think it would be nice for the patrian lords to all (except Trenton of course) to gain the "corrupt" trait, which has some negative inclination, but maybe nothing so much as increased distance maintanence, or something, because although corrupt, they are still supposed to be insanely powerful.