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Ideas for More Units!

Discussion in 'CivBE - Ideas and Suggestions' started by DefiantMars, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    With later game hover units, I don't really think there are problems with terrain. That said, there is a reason why I made the GyroLEV. Autogyro craft is sort of the extension of Helicopters and I felt it made a lot of sense for Purity/Supremacy.

    Now that I've got the bulk of the units done and that we have Rising Tide, I'd like to try come up with a few more ideas for aquatic units (but only 1 or 2) since we do have a decent number of hover units. The Supremacy/Harmony "Tenaxodon" I'm working on was conceived as an amphibious unit.

    But at the moment I think I'd struggle to come up with a feasible list for unique units. I'm very much open to suggestions.

    Also I'd like to hear what you think about the current units as well as any suggestions you may have on the Explorer upgrades.
     
  2. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I like the ideas of special things revealed to advanced explorers (as well as early miasma resistance/alien defense/extra modules for early improvements)

    say level 1 explorers (at 4 Affinity get the miasma?leashing/alien defense/modules)
    level 2 explorers (at 10? or 6.6 affinity get the ability to find new things)
    [add 6 "new things" to find]..each has its own possible Artifacts and related "improvement" to be built on top

    Add some things like faster movement/hover/ increased vision/invisible unit detection for the level 2, and it can be worthwhile making expensive ones.


    I like most of the ideas for the other affinity units,
    I think the cloud bloom should be level 8 (so that miasma is always a good thing for your troops)

    I'm not sure about the 'backstory' for the Ascendancy units.. getting into psionics gets a little weird. (Of course I haven't sen the stuff for Throne/Architect so it might be similar) but one could have Almost the same idea with them being gengineered 'high energy weapon/advanced communication organs'

    I like the Tanaxodon being an amphibious unit that is also submerged when in water.

    Not as sure in general about so many special abilities, I'd prefer most to be passive/triggered by attack.


    As for Naval unit ideas (somewhere between Affinity 7 and 11 for initial version)..hybrid ideas in a bit

    Supremacy-Command Carrier, units in range 2 get +1? vision and +1? movement for the turn, also gives Orbital coverage (although that might step on the AETHER..but this is over the water)

    Mastery-Floating Fortress, move 2 range 2 ship Very high melee strength (but no melee attack), range 2, adjacent naval units get +% to defense, it and adjacent naval units can heal as if in friendly territory (ie if not moving/attacking)

    Purity-Naval Artillery, range 4 to start ..upgrade version can be 6,7 range (can shot down orbital units)

    Ascendancy-ArgoMarine, Infantry unit with embarked bonuses (can melee attack when embarked, high embarked strength, faster move when embarked, normal/better vision, no amphibious penalty)

    Harmony-Gojiraworm, Melee Submarine can attack/capture coastal cities

    Audacity-Planktonic Net, submarine unit with weak range 1 attack, heals when it does damage, adjacent enemy units are immobile (although adjacent melee units can move to attack the Net)
     
  3. alysander

    alysander Chieftain

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    Also is there way to add/modify new/ resources?
    I think they are all very stupid in BE.
    There can be much more plausible strategic resouces, as Thorium or Rare Metals (in craters).
     
  4. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    They belong to the "fiction" part of the science-fiction. They're theoretical xenomaterials that enable certain sci-fi tropes to be possible. Without them it would be more difficult to justify the creation of unique units. However, this thread is meant to discuss ideas for units both mechanically and their relation to their corresponding affinities. This is not meant to discuss the legitimacy of the Beyond Earth resources. If you want to start a discussion about that, I ask that you please make your own thread.
     
  5. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    I need to dedicate some time to think though the concept some more. Make another set of names... or maybe apply the Prefixes to them. That'd be kind of cool.

    I'm happy with my "intro" perks but I need to determine what happens afterward. I don't know how a single purity soldier with a rover would get hover... I suppose he could hop onto the thing and ride around on it, but that's a bit awkward. I like that the Supremacy units could reveal invis and more movement for Harmony definitely fits. I'll have to think about the upgrade nodes versus Innate upgrades

    That brings up a bit of a frustrating point... I wanted to put it in the tier 2 position due to its location on the tech web in addition to "spacing out" the Xeno Swarm and the Xeno Calvary. I'm not sure if shifting it would help it or hurt. Regardless, I'll look it over.

    The Obelisk is not that extreme in my opinion. Its mostly a just a machine that stimulates the brain. Like an alpha wave generator used for sleep aid, but in reverse. As for the Dyad. I felt that headed in the psionic direction made more sense than what there is currently. The Throne is a hovering pod filled with Architects. Architects are engineered humans with minds so powerful, they're comparable to super computers. Capable of processing a ton of sensory and other data.

    I felt Ascendancy lacks an "end state" that the other affinities have. And with the lack of psionics in the game (which is not an uncommon theme in Sci-Fi), it slowly clicked. It also helps convey the superhuman/superhero/demigod motif. As far as the techno-babble, I think that I at least hit on the theoretical state of the Ascendant societies. They've done so many "quality of life" gene mods and have "advanced the human condition" with artificial evolution, that their minds and body's are able to start inducing particle phenomena. (With a little bit of technological help built into their suits and things like that in the game).

    And believe me, I though very long and very hard about how to continue this Affinity. Nothing else made sense so I ran with the idea. Also considering that they would need to compete with the Xeno Titan, the LEV Destroyer, the ANGEL, the Skyfortress, and the Geovore... they kind of need to be a bit weird to compete.

    The active portions are, I don't want to say necessary, but they did make things easier for me to concept. I was struggling to come up with effects that occurred passively. And with "support actions" introduced in RT it felt more natural. However, I'm starting to develop a few concepts for the naval units that are naturally occurring.

    I like the Command Carrier (acronym can come later). I agree that there is overlap, but I'm trying to figure out if its too much. Between the carriers and arbiters, Supremacy is getting a lot of air superiority.

    The floating fortress is kind of close to the Skyfortress, so we'll need to find a work around concept for that.

    The Naval Artillery is neat but I think that range is way too high. Some of the gunboat upgrades provide +1 Range (so 3 range total) having a unit that far away is... not wise in my opinion. 3 range to start with +1 or +2 range later on is more sensible. It might be an aquatic Purity version of the SABR, in that sense.

    That's kind of a neat idea for Ascendancy. It give them an amphibious unit as well and makes me think of Water World...... anyway. Seeing ArgoMarine makes me want to call them "Argonauts" after the the eponymous boat and story. This is a cleanly done "passive effect". Very nice.

    Melee sub? Interesting. I like it but it could use a bit more Harmony flavoring. That and I'd like to change the worm part. To avoid too much overlap with the Geovore (it used to be called the Steel Worm. The thing is a "homegrown" bionic siege worm...)

    The Planktonic Net is fascinating, but I'm having a hard time working though its viability. It seems quite strong at interdiction. Perhaps a bit too much.
     
  6. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I agree the Obelisk is not as bad, the Dyads begin to get more weird though.
    I think just explaining it as 'super tech electric eel on steroids' might work... say the Dyads are ~12-15 feet tall and actually have to consume floatstone and xenomass as part of their diet to power/grow the 'particle manipulation organs' deep in their chests. seems a bit more demigodlike (actually moving past the demigod phase into the god phase if they are massive)

    protoss ftw :)
    Well the Floating fortress would be normal range, and not have a lot of fire power (I forgot to put 'medium ranged power'), and be limited to the water, its main advantage would be that it would be hard to kill.

    One could eliminate the bonus to other ships (and it should just be to other ships not all units) from the floating fortress, and just make it a nearly unkillable unit (or reduce the heal bonus from the sky fortress)

    The Naval artillery's main value would be in its range, I'd keep it slow, and not too powerful of an attack, possibly even require it to set up, but having it Start at 4 range would allow it to play uniquely

    Thanks

    I agree the "sub" needs some flavor.. part of the problem is the lack of ocean miasma
    I'd probably give it a bonus to city attack, and have it heal itself based on damage it did to the city (or kills it made)
    Probably a defense bonus if it is on a deep ocean tile (or general combat bonus)

    Yeah the net might be too much, perhaps
    1. any enemy unit that moves adjacent to it loses all movement
    2. any enemy unit that Starts adjacent to it has only 1 movement (that way a unit can still attack the net, or get away... but the net can catch you)
     
  7. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Well I was thinking that's what their height would be around. I don't know how this affinity would feel about adding an extra organ to the glorious human form.... there would definitely be debate on that. But I think that saying that they "eat" it is really weird and implies more of a Supremacy/Harmony vibe. (Their response is "eat it", right?)

    Regardless, some xenomass is used to apply the gene mods and some of the floatstone is built into their suits. But requiring "upkeep" would make sense. But Psionic are in the realm of Firaxis' repertoire ie. XCOM (Just let me have my superhuman fantasies man. :( )

    I don't play Starcraft but I have to say, the species themes are incredible.

    Like the Drone Cage, heal bonuses are actives not passives. The Skyfortress only has 1 move right now, so its not like it can use it more than once a turn. I might increase its AoE repair and we could transition the targeted repair to the Aqua Fortress.

    7 range just makes me SUPER nervous. Keeping it at or below 5 would make it feel more sane. But I am okay with the concept, it gives purity some form of master of the seas and they can bring more of their units over water. (Just so you know the Mjolnir's city attack action works on water cities)

    [/QUOTE]Yeah the net might be too much, perhaps
    1. any unit that moves adjacent to it loses all movement
    2. any unit that Starts adjacent to it has only 1 movement (that way a unit can still attack the net, or get away... but the net can catch you)[/QUOTE]

    It would basically impose super zone of control. I think that makes more sense. It would give an opportunity for the Tenaxodon and whatever other aquatic Supremacy/Harmony unit to attack.
     
  8. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well, maybe a massive addition to human metabolism. That way the power is still coming 'from them', but in a less weird way (and a little floatstone in the diet is good for you :) great weightloss program)

    the key difference with HS would be the fact that the Ascendant have the mental capacity to control this without using installed computer systems, the weapons aren't installed into them, they are part of every single one of their cells.

    Side note: if the Sky fortress has only 1 move it can't use its 'shoot twice' ability

    I'd say ditch the repair from the Aqua fortress, and have it just improve the Defense of neighboring naval/embarked units


    Well, I'm thinking of it as sort of like compared to an aircraft carrier, except a missile carrier instead

    You'd still need vision, and because it is on the ocean, it would need to be defended against flankers.

    It would have to be a fairly weak unit for its cost, but it could allow you to just pound away.
     
  9. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

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    So far as psionics go, it seems almost required for the alien hive mind and the mind flower to make any sense.

    Additionally, it's outright tame compared to the crazy nonsense the progenitors get away with in the background...which I feel adds nothing to the setting.
    _________________________________________

    So far as Explorers go, I stand by my BNW-ish suggestion earlier.

    Harmony - May recover hidden Alien artifacts.

    Purity - May recover hidden Old Earth artifacts.

    Supremacy - May recover hidden Progenitor artifacts.

    Ascendancy - May reveal (create) hidden organic resources.

    Mastery - Satellite and ship salvage yields twenty times as much of a reward. (Not entirely sure on the number to buff a weak bonus.)

    Voracity - May reveal (create) hidden mineral resources.
     
  10. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    I'm not opposed to it, but it just needs to be just a tad exotic but it definitely needs to feel "human", its a actually starting to make me think of Borderlands Sirens.

    Between building a monstrous synthetic alien kaiju, constructing a god knows how heavy hovering military base, and uploading a sentient human mind into a massive weapons platform, I don't think that psychic humans (who operate in similar to Starcraft High Templar) is too crazy.

    That's frustrating, because the idea was that it could bombard twice with its weaker attack or repair units but has slow movement. Not sure how to circumvent the movement -> action requirements. I suppose it could have 2 movement, attacks cost 1 action, movement cost 2 actions, and repair actions cost 2 actions. That's a nasty workaround, but it could work.

    So the fortress would be a great admiral... that doesn't suck?

    I don't think a lot of people would be happy with that range. Sea units do have more speed, but they still have zone of control. Revising my former statement, I would not make it longer than 6 tiles range.
     
  11. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    I tend to draw the line at entanglement. The Hovering mantle extracting Geothermal Drills? Alright. Small pocket dimensions and minor space-folding? Okay sure. Manifold-reality perception and manipulation..... not really.

    I just get this weird feeling looking at Ascendancy and Voracity... In concept I think it works.

    I'm thinking using the Affinity prefix might be better than making 2 named tiers so it would go explorer -> named non affinity upgrade -> Affinity upgrade -> Affinity prefix:

    • Evolved Druids
    • First Paragons
    • True Pioneers (really nice ring to it)
    • Master Savants
    • Prime Missionaries
    • Elder Errants (meh, it works)
     
  12. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well basically, it would be an (almost) unkillable great admiral that can do some damage itself, and only helps Defend units rather than boost their attack

    I guess if was 5 initially, and then 6 in the upgraded version it could be interesting



    As for explorer ideas, some of the abilities need to come out Early to matter... So I would say No 'non-affinity upgrade'

    Instead upgrade at level 4 with core affinity (early enough to get anti alien defense/immunity to miasma)
    Then upgrade at level 10 or 6.6 with core OR hybrid

    so perhaps
    Explorer->
    True Explorer/Prime Explorer/Evolved Explorer->
    Pioneer/Savant/Missionary/Errant/Druid/Paragon

    As for what they can discover...
    I'd go with a 2 step, each one has "hidden sites" specific to their affinity.
    Each hidden site when processed gives artifacts (Purity->OE only, Mastery-> OE or Progenitor, etc.) once the site Gives the artifacts, it becomes a Different 'hidden site' that the 'explorer' can put an improvement on it

    Purity-Culture, production, health
    Ascendancy-Production, culture, food
    Harmony-Food, production, science
    Audacity-Science, energy, food
    Supremacy-Energy, health, science
    Mastery-Health, energy, culture

    [big amount of capitalized one, lesser of the other two, actual amount depends on what it is "Science" ~4 science, "Energy"~12 energy]

    For other stats, I'd say
    Explorer-6 strength, 40 prod
    lvl 1-12 strength, 120 prod
    lvl 2-22 strength, 240 prod

    Harmony1
    base abilities: can leash aliens, immune to miasma
    options: greater leash ability (take less damage) OR +1 move

    Harmony2
    base abilities: "hidden harmony sites", +1 move +1 vision
    options: heal +10 hp every turn ended in miasma OR no ZOC, +1move

    Supremacy1
    base abilities: +1 module
    options: +1 vision OR +1 module

    Supremacy2
    base abilities: "hidden supremacy sites", +1 move, +1 vision
    options: detect invisible units OR enemy units in visual range take a combat penalty when attacking your Other units

    Purity1
    base abilities: + defense v. aliens
    options: +offense v. aliens OR +10 heal outside of friendly territory

    Purity2
    base abilities: "hidden purity sites", +1 move, +1 vision
    options: can build regular worker improvements/actions at +50% rate OR +5 hp heal every turn

    Mastery
    base abilities: "hidden mastery sites", +1 move, +1 vision
    options: detect invisible units OR +5 hp heal every turn

    Audacity
    base abilities: "hidden audacity sites", +1 move, +1 vision
    options: detect invisible units OR no ZOC, +1 move

    Ascendancy
    base abilities: "hidden ascendancy sites", +1 move, +1 vision
    options: no ZOC, +1 move OR +5 hp heal every turn


    the +1 move from the advanced also includes a +1 embarked move

    each type of "hidden site" would only appear about once every 50 tiles (which means 1 of some type about every 8 tiles, but you can only ever see 1.)
     
  13. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    That all sounds really good. I'll update the post when I get home. But just a quick note. You have the Harmony 2 (Druid, correct?) upgrade listed as "All movement costs 1" Explorer units already have that ability. Oops. Maybe they could have the option between the heal +10 from miasma or +1 Movement instead? They'll be speedy druids (Circle of Xenos).
     
  14. Azem.Ocram

    Azem.Ocram Chieftain

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    I love your ideas for more Affinity Units (5 Tiers each). I would be truly scared if I saw a cyborg Seige Worm up close (even as a cinematic)! Really, all of them sound cool and I like the idea of the Dyad being a team of a super Architect and a super Immortal with a psychic connection. If Transcendence can link all biological brains on the planet to the global Hive Mind, linking 2 genetically engineered humans seems reasonable.

    Personally, I prefer the generic upgrade first (so have the explorer get 3 tiers) but have the choices be stronger when defending vs reduced miasma damage. I would also like to see hybrid affinity upgrades for all units and an extra affinity tier for all units that gives a modest bonus. A True Lev Destroyer requires 18 Purity but 16P/5S shouldn't be called Prime, it should be called Master now. A Prime Lev Destroyer would be bigger than a Master Lev Destroyer and have a P/S look with more defense but equal attack and unlock at 16P/10S. The True upgrade of Purity units should be flashier than the base units which means I think normal Battle Suits should have no flags.
     
  15. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Hello Everyone! So after quite a bit of thought, I have made some preliminary outlines for Naval Unique units. I'm trying to maintain synergy with each affinity's terrestrial unique units. I'd quite like to get people's feedback on the matter.

    Harmony

    Naval 1 - Gojirafish Credit to KrikkitTwo
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Biochemistry
    Requires:
    • Level 5 Harmony
    • 2 Xenomass
    • 5 Movement, 1 Range
    • Can move after attacking
    • Invisible
    Upgrades:
    +50% Combat Strength when attacking Naval Units
    OR
    +1 additional attack per turn

    History
    A fast and light ambush unit, the Gojira-fish can invisibly sneak up on unsuspecting prey, strike, and vanish as quickly as they came.


    Naval 2 - Leviathan
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Bioengineering
    Requires:
    • Level 10 Harmony
    • 4 Xenomass
    • 3 Movement
    History
    ???
     
  16. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Purity

    Naval 1 - Phalanx
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Defense Grid
    Requires:
    Purity 7
    2 Floatstone / 3 Titanium
    • 3 Movement
    • +30% Strength when Defending
    • ???
    Upgrades:
    +5% Strength per Unused Movement, +1 Movement
    OR
    ???, +1 Movement

    History
    Tanky aquatic melee ship.


    Naval 2 - Sharanga Credit to KrittitTwo
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Astrodynamics
    Requires:
    Purity 10
    2 Floatstone / 3 Titanium
    • 2 Movement, 3 Range
    • Levitates over terrain
    • All movement costs 1
    • Reduced strength when attacking on Land
    • Attacks deal 5 points of splash damage
    Upgrades:
    +10 Splash Damage, +1 Movement
    OR
    +1 Range, +1 Movement

    History
    Long ranged naval siege unit. Incredible range, but very fragile. Named after the bow of the Hindu god, Vishnu.

    The weapon platform of the Sharanga is so heavy, that a very large anti-grav LEV engine had to be installed in order to keep it buoyant.
     
  17. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Supremacy

    Naval 1 - ORCL
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at:
    Requires:
    Level 9 Supremacy
    4 Firaxite
    • ???
    History
    ???


    Naval 2 - LITRG
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at:
    Requires:
    Level 9 Supremacy
    4 Firaxite
    • ???
    History
    A carrier type unit that can hold even more Tacjets than the normal variant.
     
  18. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Ascendancy Harmony/Purity

    Naval 1 - Argonaut Credit to KrikkitTwo
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Genetic Design
    Requires:
    Harmony 3 / Purity 3
    1 Titanium, 1 Xenomass
    • 2 Movement, 3 when embarked
    • Can attack while embarked
    • No amphibious penalty
    • +20% Strength when Attacking
    Upgrades:
    +20% Combat Strength attacking Cities; Steal energy equal to 33% of the damage inflicted on a city
    OR
    +15% Combat Strength against Naval Units

    History
    ???

    Naval 2 - Thunderhead Credit to Galgus
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Hyperconductors?
    Harmony 8 / Purity 8
    3 Xenomass, 3 Floatstone
    • Levitates over Terrain
    • All movement costs 1
    • 2 Movement
    • Must be built in a Coastal or Aquatic city.
    • Cannot Attack
    • Attack deals 15 HP damage to the target and all adjacent enemies
    Upgrades:
    +10 Lightning Damage,
    OR
    ???

    History:
    The Thunderhead is a bit of an outlier in Ascendant society. Originally a thought experiment in combining Old Earth and New Earth faunal genes together, the Thunderhead became a gargantuan hybridized warbeast based on the Sea Dragon.

    A Thunderhead swims lazily between the skies and the tides. Despite sharing the incredible size of its predecessor their approach is as beautiful as it would seem impossible, with a slowly moving shadow lit by minor discharges of ambient electricity.

    Their bodies host large deposits of floatstone contained within durable organds. This is battery is the origin for their greatest wonder, and terror, which stems from terran fish: a heavily genetically enhanced bioelectricity.

    While the electric eel of legend would only stun small prey, Thunderheads can quickly release devastating storms of lightning beyond anything seen on either planet.
    What this attack lacks in precision it makes up for in the breadth of its impact, shattering front lines and sending armies into chaos.
    Yet despite the terror it can instill on the battle, the colonists it protects view it fundamentally as a creature of wonder.
     
  19. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Mastery Purity/Supremacy

    Naval 1 - Striker Foil
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Power Systems
    Requires:
    Purity 5 / Supremacy 5
    1 Titanium, 2 Firaxite
    • 5 Movement
    • +20% Strength against Sea Units
    Upgrades:
    • +30% Strength against Sea Units
    • +3 Movement
    History
    ???

    Naval 2 - Sea Command Credit to KrittitTwo
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Mechatronics
    Requires:
    Purity 10 / Supremacy 10
    3 Titanium, 3 Firaxite
    • 3 Movement.
    • Cannot Attack
    • Can hold 2 aircraft
    • Repair Aircraft - Heal onboard aircraft for 25 HP.
    • Increases Combat Strength of nearby allies
    History
    ???
     
  20. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars Chieftain

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    Voracity Supremacy/Harmony

    I had some fun with Voracity. Taking KrikkitTwo's suggestion, for the Planktonic Net; these hybrid units support the Tenaxodon. The Scuttlemine is a low production cost suicide unit while the Planktonet is an invisible interdiction unit meant to catch enemies.

    Naval 1 - Scuttlemine
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Swarm Robotics
    Requires:
    Harmony 3 / Supremacy 3
    2 Titanium, 2 Firaxite
    • 3 Movement
    • Cities produce 2 Scuttlemine units
    • Explode on death dealing 25 damage to surrounding enemy units
    • Explosion only does damage to an attacker if killed while defending.
    History
    An inexpensive cluster of explosive robots utilizing swarm logic to scuttle enemy naval craft. They're basically Starcraft Banelings.

    Naval 2 - Planktonet Credit to KrittitTwo
    Spoiler :

    Unlocked at: Swarm Intelligence?
    Requires:
    Harmony 9 / Supremacy 9
    3 Xenomass, 3 Firaxite
    • 3 Movement, 1 Range
    • Invisible
    • Enemies lose movement when moving next to this unit
    • Enemies who start their turns adjacent to the Plaktonet have 1 movement
    History
    Planktonets are Invisible Interdiction Units utilized by Voracious societies. Created from macro-plankton and nano-machines, they utilize dangerous bio-electricity and swarm logic to form a web that practically immobilizes enemy ships.

    These plankton that constitute a net are quite large, a few centimeters in diameter. Each plankton then hosts a culture of nanomachines.

    Serves as an excellent set up tool for Scuttlemines and Tenaxodon.
     

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