Ideological crimes

[JollyRoger]

Self defense is not murder. My initial post in this thread was comparing two like situations, someone was murdered. Nobody was murdered in JR's scenario.

Seld defense is a defense to a charge of murder. The way you escape punishment is proving motivation.

 

[bhsup]

Self defense is not murder. If you legal types call it that, that's your problem. You guys know what I was trying to address in my post and you're throwing this ridiculous scenario that has nothing to do with it to trip me up.

Sometimes I really think the law would be a lot better off without lawyers trying to complicate it.

 

[cardgame]

Self Defense is the motivation, VRWC, not necessarily the act itself.

 

[JollyRoger]

Self defense is not murder. If you legal types call it that, that's your problem. You guys know what I was trying to address in my post and you're throwing this ridiculous scenario that has nothing to do with it to trip me up.

Sometimes I really think the law would be a lot better off without lawyers trying to complicate it.

It probably was a lawyer that first got a killer off on that self defense technicality. Need to put a stop to that complicated nonsense.

 

[Traitorfish]

Ideological crimes, hate crimes....both are asinine labels and are a tool of thought police.

"Well sorry ma'am, you and your neighbor's husband were both murdered today. Unfortunately, your hubby was murdered randomly in a burglary gone bad, but the neighbor's hubby was murdered by a whack lefty because he was a Republican. So we're just gonna put your hubby's killer in jail for a few years because, well let's face it, that's just not that big of a deal....BUT BY GOD, SOMEONE MURDERED A REPUBLICAN BECAUSE HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, WE'RE GONNA FRY THAT BASTARD!"

Yeah, I'm sure the wife gives a crap why her husband was murdered. He's just as dead as her neighbor's husband.

The understanding is that "hate crimes" act not merely as an attack upon an individual, but upon the entire group to which that individual group belongs by creating a social atmosphere of violence and hostility. Essentially, "hate crimes" are treated a form of petty terrorism.

Self defense is not murder.

Legitimate self defence is not murder, not self defence itself. I could shoot a man dad to stop him sneezing on me, and, while that would be "self defence", it would still be murder.

 

[Karalysia]

Sometimes I really think the law would be a lot better off without lawyers trying to complicate it.

Where cometh the law if not from the lawyers?

 

[Souron]

Seld defense is a defense to a charge of murder. The way you escape punishment is proving motivation.

Self Defense is the motivation, VRWC, not necessarily the act itself.

Self defence is not just motivation, it is also circumstance. As a defence for murder, it requires that the killing of the other person was a reasonable recourse to a clear and imminent threat. From a legal standpoint I suspect that motivation portion isn't directly important in most countries.

 

[Camikaze]

Well 'killing' is the act, 'self defence' and 'murder' are two descriptors (though certainly not the only ones) that are used to, well, describe, the intent in the act. That intent is therefore pretty important. It isn't simply 'complicating things' to differentiate between the two types of killings, nor is it an unnecessary step to look at other motives for crimes.

 

[Souron]

Well 'killing' is the act, 'self defence' and 'murder' are two descriptors (though certainly not the only ones) that are used to, well, describe, the intent in the act. That intent is therefore pretty important. It isn't simply 'complicating things' to differentiate between the two types of killings, nor is it an unnecessary step to look at other motives for crimes.

It is quite possible to murder someone to protect yourself. Self defence isn't about intent.

For instance, seeking out and killing someone who threated to kill you himself is premeditated murder, even if the motive is to live longer.

 

[Camikaze]

It is quite possible to murder someone to protect yourself. Self defence isn't about intent.

For instance, seeking out and killing someone who threated to kill you himself is premeditated murder, even if the motive is to live longer.

Eh, I was using 'self defence' in what is presumably the legal sense. Seeking someone out to kill them because they pose some threat to you is probably not legally 'self defence', even if it can be logically construed as such.

 

[Souron]

Eh, I was using 'self defence' in what is presumably the legal sense. Seeking someone out to kill them because they pose some threat to you is probably not legally 'self defence', even if it can be logically construed as such.

That's right, and the distinction is not a question of motive, but circumstance.

I'm tempted to repeat myself, so please reread my earlier posts.