Benderino
Loyal American Democrat
That's easier said than done.
if I was an Isreali . . .
- Thread starter Ultraworld
- Start date
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
How does killing Israelis, thus preventing any chance of independence, benefit the Palestinians at all?
Jelciakajo
Chieftain
Ethiopia isn't Muslim (Edit: Hmm, actually, they appear to be approaching the majority now, but there's a substantial coptic population that is traditionally dominant).
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
Is Eritrea?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Roughly 50-50 Christian-Muslim.
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
Nigeria will have some of the worst inter-religion crises in the coming future in my opinion.
Benderino
Loyal American Democrat
There are a lot of Jews there too.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
I'm sure she could think of something better to do with a banana...
The Palestinians left Palestine of their own free will. Arabs from other nations asked them to leave; it would make their conquest of Israel easier. When they lost, they refused to accept the Palestinians, who by the way are no different than any other arab, into their own countries and now use them as a weapon against Isreal (look how mean the Israelis are being to the poor Palestinian refugees, etc.). Also, by keeping them out, keeping them as poor refugees, the other arab states have a very easy time fueling terrorism. As long as they have no place to go, they will blame Israel and hate Israel.
The Jews built Isreal, a baston of civilization and modernity in a backwards, savage region agianst all odds. They made something from nothing and deserve the right to live in peace. The arabs missed all of their oppertunities to create an arab state in Palestine. One of them was an offer from the UN, and another from the Israelis to create a state in the West Bank. There were also many wars in which the combined arab forces could not defeat the Israelis. It is time for them to call it quits and help the poor Palestinian refugees, their arab brothers, themselves by offering them some of their land.
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
Capslock hit the nail right on the head. The Arab nations are responsible for the Palestinian refugee crisis, not the Israelis.
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
The Palestinian situation won't improve until parents decide to buy their children books instead of guns.
Benderino
Loyal American Democrat
Beautiful posts, guys. Very true.
phoenix_night
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
- Messages
- 3,853
I didn't say it did.
@capslock,
You obviously have a pretty certain opinion of things in the Middle East, but I don't see why you post that opinion in response to me...
Anyway: "who by the way are no different than any other arab" - Not sure I follow...logic, please? What surrounds Palestine is of no relevance whatsoever when determining who is just and who is not.
"a backwards, savage region" -
"The arabs missed all of their oppertunities to create an arab state in Palestine..." - Again, where I have taken a side in this debate? I haven't. My only post (prior to this) was to dismiss another post concerning the surrounding regions.
That said though, I disagree with most of what was said in your post (i.e. the Arabs had their chance, their own fault etc.).
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2002
- Messages
- 9,922
The only Arab location doing a have decent job with what they have is Dubai, and it sure isn't Israel holding them back. It isn't Israel's fault that they have nothing better to do than ***** about Israel. The ME may be complicated, but it doesn't change the fact that the main perpetrators are Arab leaders, and the ignorance of the Arab masses.
phoenix_night
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
- Messages
- 3,853
Is this just an anti-Arab rant or does it have some relevance?
Originally posted by phoenix_night
@capslock,
You obviously have a pretty certain opinion of things in the Middle East, but I don't see why you post that opinion in response to me...
Anyway: "who by the way are no different than any other arab" - Not sure I follow...logic, please? What surrounds Palestine is of no relevance whatsoever when determining who is just and who is not.
"a backwards, savage region" -
"The arabs missed all of their oppertunities to create an arab state in Palestine..." - Again, where I have taken a side in this debate? I haven't. My only post (prior to this) was to dismiss another post concerning the surrounding regions.
That said though, I disagree with most of what was said in your post (i.e. the Arabs had their chance, their own fault etc.).
You said that the amount of "Muslim Land" was immaterial and asked how it benefited the Palestinians. I replied by saying that there should be plenty of land for them to repatriate their arab brothers, but they refuse to help the Palestinians because they are a valuble weapon against Israel as refugees.
They are no different than any other arab because they are arabs. They would fit right in any of the arab nations in the surrounding areas.
They missed their chance: This relates to your comment about the relevance of the surrounding area. The arabs missed their chance to create a nation in Palestine, and they have failed to destroy Israel. The Palestinians left at the behest of their arab brothers in neighboring states during an attempt to conquer Israel. Those states should be responsible for taking care of the refugees.
So, the amount of arab, muslim land in the surrounding region is very relevent to Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is not at all immaterial, as you say.
It's pure ignorance to give all the blame to the Palestinians. No body is saints in this conflict.
The Israelis is making illegal settlements all over the West Bank, and they are building their protective wall in Palestinian territory, thus cutting it into many isolated spots.
If Israel want's peace, they should remove themselfes from the West Bank, build their wall along the actual border, and concentrate on fighting the few terrorists who would still be resisting.
As long as they keep making the life's of civilian Palestinians miserable, peace is not an option. Fact.
________
FJR1300
The Israelis is making illegal settlements all over the West Bank, and they are building their protective wall in Palestinian territory, thus cutting it into many isolated spots.
If Israel want's peace, they should remove themselfes from the West Bank, build their wall along the actual border, and concentrate on fighting the few terrorists who would still be resisting.
As long as they keep making the life's of civilian Palestinians miserable, peace is not an option. Fact.
________
FJR1300
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
The only thing that holds the Israeli nation together is the conflict with the Palestinians. If the Palestinians were kicked out, the Israelis would begin fighting eachother. This is because the population has been repressed for so long by an ultra-conservative government establishment, which has been ignored any solution to the fuming class-war, has recieved an enormous amount of immigrants, none of whom have been integrated into Israeli society, plus the fact that a proper Israeli constitution has not been adopted yet, and has been postponed since it was promised in 1948. Israel is a society in flux, with no proper foundation.
A chronological analysis will show that everytime the Arabs have eased off, or tries to sue for a fair settlement, the Israeli war-faction have upped the ante, and provoked further action. Rabin tried for peace, but was assasinated by a Jewish fanatic. Sharon might fall, but Netanyahu, who is just as corrupt, will take over and continue this conflict.
If it was in the interest of the Israeli state to settle the Palestinian issue, they would have done it. No one would be able to punish Israel for a campaign of ethnic cleansing. In any case it is being done in slow motion now. And this proves my point, that the long drawn out conflict is a means of holding the citizens of Israel in check, and keep their masters in power.
What the Israelis need to do is to provide Israeli citizenship to all the citizens, in the occupied territories, and thoroughly secularize the state of Isreal, meaning that the Jewish religion should no longer be a pre-requisite for citizenship. The financial institutions, particularily the use of inflation adjusted government bonds should be overhauled. A truly independent and strong labour union created, which is not dependent on the the benevolence of the government. In short a step away from a despotic labour market based on the fascist economic model. Stop the methods of collective punishment which creates more resistance. Stop the expropriation of land owned by Palestinians. Then they need to open for trade and communication, whose absence creates poverty and a basis for recruitment for the resistance. Finally, a policy of detente with Iran, in tandem with the USA must be sought.
Got that?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
That would be Rabin.
Benderino
Loyal American Democrat
Right, both sides are to blame. However, Israel is pulling out of Gaza...what concessions are the Palestinians making?
