if I was an Isreali . . .

[storealex]

So Israel has decided only to keep half of they have stolen. Why should the Palestinians living under terrible conditions in the West Bank make concessions because Gaza is free?
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Lamborghini Lma002 History

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Stole? They purchased empty land from the Ottoman empire for like a 5000 percent markup.

 

[sourboy]

...I would move to somewhere more safe.

 

[dvandyke]

rmsharpe: If I only steal one of these notes does it make it ok?

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

How did they steal the land exactly? Nobody was living on the original settlement land of between about 1880-1945. After that the Palestinians left under order of the Arab nations so that they could murder all the Jews. How is that Israel's fault?

They moved into abandoned swamps and deserts.

 

[newfangle]

That's what happens when you arbitrarily assign an unused barren wasteland as "property."

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

I was hoping someone would pick up on that

 

[lz14]

Originally posted by Sobieski II
Stole? They purchased empty land from the Ottoman empire for like a 5000 percent markup.

Can I declare my house independent ? That would be real cool.

 

[Comraddict]

If I was slow and stupid, I would call myself Ultraworld
Moderator Action: warned, flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by lz14


Can I declare my house independent ? That would be real cool.

I don't know, why shouldn't you? Do you use the services provided to you by the city or region?

Or are you like the Israelis and more or less built in isolation from their own abilities on land that was derelict and useless.

Property ownership is all arbitrary anyways, so trying to assign ownership based on morality is doomed to failure immediately.

 

[newfangle]

You mean ownership of land, right?

If not, I'm coming over to your house with a gun and taking your cheese.

 

[lz14]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


I don't know, why shouldn't you? Do you use the services provided to you by the city or region?

Or are you like the Israelis and more or less built in isolation from their own abilities on land that was derelict and useless.

Countries provide services for each other as well. I pay everything fair and square any way. (I might need an extra body guard though if I declare independence)

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by storealex
So Israel has decided only to keep half of they have stolen. Why should the Palestinians living under terrible conditions in the West Bank make concessions because Gaza is free?

Not only did the Israelis legally purchase the land, the UN made the state of Israel legal and recognizable, granting its right to exist in 1947-'48. If the UN says that they didn't steal, then they didn't steal.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by lz14


Countries provide services for each other as well. I pay everything fair and square any way. (I might need an extra body guard though if I declare independence)

Then go for it. Although you might soon find that it is more economical to pool defense resources with likeminded neighbours. Eventual you will all develop into a nation-state like entity based on common values and interests. Sort of like the Jews did.

I nation exists if it considers itself to exist, and if it can prevent others from destroying it. Israel has to be one of the most coherently together nations on Earth, and thus has more reason to exist than most other nations.

 

[aaminion00]

"The Jews built Isreal, a baston of civilization and modernity in a backwards, savage region agianst all odds. They made something from nothing"

A lot of people could do that if powerful foreign goverments made the survival and prosperity of their nation one of their top priorities. Take away the money Israel recieved from the West after the first Israeli war which truly was a miracle, and Israel would have been long-dead by now.

 

[lz14]

Originally posted by Benderino


Not only did the Israelis legally purchase the land, the UN made the state of Israel legal and recognizable, granting its right to exist in 1947-'48. If the UN says that they didn't steal, then they didn't steal.

I like that. When UN supports Israel it's the most credible authority, when it critisize Israel it became a corrupted body controlled by Arab majorities.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by aaminion00

A lot of people could do that if powerful foreign goverments made the survival and prosperity of their nation one of their top priorities. Take away the money Israel recieved from the West after the first Israeli war which truly was a miracle, and Israel would have been long-dead by now.

You mean sort of like the Arabs did with the vast oil revenues? Israel may not be as rich as it is today, but technologically and societally Israel would have worked miracles without Americas help

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by lz14


I like that. When UN supports Israel it's the most credible authority, when it critisize Israel it became a corrupted body controlled by Arab majorities.

The point is how do you determine land ownerships? If you don't live on the land, and you never use it who are you to say that you own it? Ownership of land is an arbitrary system, so why can't it be run by an arbitrary body like the UN?

Tell me, how did the Arabs "own" it in the first place? Did they use or live on the swamp or desert? Is it cause of their general proximity? so in that case how close do you have to live to something before it can be considered yours?

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


You mean sort of like the Arabs did with the vast oil revenues? Israel may not be as rich as it is today, but technologically and societally Israel would have worked miracles without Americas help

Did I mention the Arabs? No, the Arabs goverments and leaders are far too corrupt and fundementalist to allow such progress. And your debatable point of technological and societal Israeli miracles without American help is irrelevent considering that without Western aid Israel would be dead, and Hebrews would go back to making various significant scientific developments for other people in other nations.

 

[ASA Dragon]

Perhaps I haven't been exposed to every angle on this, but from what I have read, capslock and Sobieski II have a good point. Nobody else in the area want the Palestinians to settle in their countries. They would prefer that they suffer in refugee camps on their borders and use them to further their own agendas.