eric_
Emperor
Hrm...UB replaces aqueduct...interesting.
I like the idea of using ancient leaders but modern UU and UB as well, like the Merkava for UU and the Kibbutz for UB (replaces market or grocer and adds extra happiness or science)
If Israel were a civ, what would be its specifics?
- Thread starter LightSpectra
- Start date
Hrm...UB replaces aqueduct...interesting.
I like the idea of using ancient leaders but modern UU and UB as well, like the Merkava for UU and the Kibbutz for UB (replaces market or grocer and adds extra happiness or science)
Jamesds
Great Scientist
Very good!
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
proably not a modern UU, that probably would not be very pretty to some people... but i see little problem with a modern UB, like the Kibbitz. ancient leader is probably David or Solomon or some other guy i forgot.
Rusty Edge
Deity
Besides, Ethiopia claims to have that.
As hard as it is, Israel also would need to be a seperate entity from Judaism in-game, meaning no Temple, Synagog, Tabernacle, etc. I'll put my vote behind the Kibbitz also as a UB, rounding out the historic spectrum of the civilization.
As hard as it is, Israel also would need to be a seperate entity from Judaism in-game, meaning no Temple, Synagog, Tabernacle, etc. I'll put my vote behind the Kibbitz also as a UB, rounding out the historic spectrum of the civilization.
Jamesds
Great Scientist
Glad you liked it! I figured an Ark of The Covenant would be unbalancing.
Yup
"UU: Ark of the Covenant - destroys whole stacks of enemy units/turns them into workers (slaves)."
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,016
Of all the possibilities left after the latest round of new inclusions, Israel should be in. However, I must say I have kind of a hard time understanding the ancient/modern dichotomy people are discussing, because I always looked at civs representing all the eras. (That's one of the reasons I had trouble with the HRE at first.) Modern Rome is just Italy, and the ancient Germanic tribes are just Germany in-game.
Offhand, I'd say the leader would be Solomon or David, UU probably the Maccabee (though I hated the boosted one in the current Israel mod--it's too powerful), and the UB, I don't know... altar sounds pretty good.
Offhand, I'd say the leader would be Solomon or David, UU probably the Maccabee (though I hated the boosted one in the current Israel mod--it's too powerful), and the UB, I don't know... altar sounds pretty good.
Rusty Edge
Deity
God was against graven images and obelisks, so I figure they have to be replaced.
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
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- Messages
- 4,016
A monument's not a graven image. It's a guy on horseback.
It's a guy on horseback.
Rusty Edge
Deity
A monument's not a graven image.
I saw one of those guys in Glasgow... it was Lord Wellington. He wore a traffic cone on his head to celebrate St. Patrick's Day.
sydhe
King of Kongs
Leader: David, Expansionist, Spiritual
Unique Building: Great temple (state religion only), allows one more ...
Unique Units: Prophet. Replaces missionary unit of state religion. Calls Wrath of God on enemy cities and enemy units or stack of units, cursing enemy (10% damage per unit.) and weakening defense by 10%. Can only do once per city or square per turn.
Starting techs: Mysticism, Hunting.
Unique Building: Great temple (state religion only), allows one more ...
Unique Units: Prophet. Replaces missionary unit of state religion. Calls Wrath of God on enemy cities and enemy units or stack of units, cursing enemy (10% damage per unit.) and weakening defense by 10%. Can only do once per city or square per turn.
Starting techs: Mysticism, Hunting.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Abraham never lead all of Israel, and Solomon's rule is what lead to Israel being split into two kingdoms (the anti-Abe Lincoln).
Joshua conquered a load of territory, and David conquered Jerusalem; in addition, both were considered very popular leaders.
Joshua conquered a load of territory, and David conquered Jerusalem; in addition, both were considered very popular leaders.
Otto von B.
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2007
- Messages
- 34
Jitzchak Rabin should be the leader.
He ruled all of Israeal and hes a great leader.
Traits: pro/phi (?).
And he would be somebody as cool as Ghandi and a good friend of all Civ offline-players
He ruled all of Israeal and hes a great leader.
Traits: pro/phi (?).
And he would be somebody as cool as Ghandi and a good friend of all Civ offline-players
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Come on, we know what the traits would have to be :- Financial and (surprise) Financial again. UB:- The Moneylender (available will Priesthood) +50%
, +2
in all foreign cities with open borders.......
, +2 in all foreign cities with open borders.......
GeneralMatt
Emperor
Yes, Solomon's reign did split the nation (After he died though) But it was more because his son wanted to make the people work even harder.
If he had of not done that and made it easier they would have stayed.
Plus he acquired more $$ than anyone else ever will..
Someone mentioned having great people do different stuff.
That makes it seem like it is the person doing the great stuff, not God as the Bible credits it (whether you believe it or not.) You think Moses who was scared even to talk to Pharaoh, his step-dad actually split a sea in half himself? Or Gideon scared those guys all by himself (Using God's plan anyways.)
And the Ark itself was not powerful, look what happened when they thought that themselves? They took it to battle trusting in it not God, and they got slaughtered, and the ark taken. (Though even then God used it).
I would say give them a UU that can remove religions from cities and a UB that if the only religion in the city is Judaism, the units get a +200 defensive (God) bonus. I know it is a little farfetched, and would not work, but cool to think about.
Going to ignore the Shylock post.
I do feel the need to correct the Solomon split Israel though. According to the historian writing the text we now know as the book of Kings, Israel split after Solomon's death when his son refused to rule in the manner of his father but instead went before the people who had petitioned him about his policies and announced, "My little finger is thicker than my father's waist. If he scourged you with whips, I will scourge you with scorpions." In other words, "If you think you had anything to complain about before, wait till you see the tyrant I plan to be." The people of Israel were very upset by this and most of them united against the new king under a rebel leader who had been annointed by a prophet in response to the prosperous Solomon's rejection of the Covenant with the Lord. A civil war occured and all of nation except for the tribes of Judah and Benjamin split from the Davidic dynasty to form the kingdom of Israel (which lasted until it was destroyed by the Assyrians). The remaining two tribes became the kingdom of Judah, which continued to be ruled by the Davidic line.
That was probably more than needed to be said, but I wanted to clarify that Solomon had nothing politically to do with the split of the kingdom. The only claims that can tie him to it at all are that he did a lousy job teaching his son how to rule and that he became complacent and idolatrous in his religion, which led to the anointing of another ruler and the prophesy that the kingdom would be "taken away" from his son as punishment.
EDIT: I seem to have been beaten to the punch. Ah well. I agree with the above poster about the treatment of Israelite historic figures. Whether or not you believe they performed such miracles, as far as we know, the figures themselves attributed those signs to God. Making them into supermen would probably not be honoring to the individuals' faith. At the same time, I would point out again that Israel in Civ would not equate to Judaism. In real history, God chose Israel, but Moses explains that it was not because they were greater or more numerous than other peoples; God chose them because He chose them. In Civ, Judaism exists already and religious associations with Israel such as Divine intervention at various points on their behalf should be associated with whoever embraces Judaism in the game. In other words, if the Indians found Judaism, God chose the Indians and they get the blessings associated with that if any are ever to be included in-game.
Of course, Firaxis would never include any supernatural influences in the core game unless they could come up with equally balanced blessings for all the other religions (like in the Gods of Old scenario in BtS). No matter what you believe, it makes sense in more than a political-correctness way; the game would be pretty boring if the followers of any specific religion always won because God fought for them.
I do feel the need to correct the Solomon split Israel though. According to the historian writing the text we now know as the book of Kings, Israel split after Solomon's death when his son refused to rule in the manner of his father but instead went before the people who had petitioned him about his policies and announced, "My little finger is thicker than my father's waist. If he scourged you with whips, I will scourge you with scorpions." In other words, "If you think you had anything to complain about before, wait till you see the tyrant I plan to be." The people of Israel were very upset by this and most of them united against the new king under a rebel leader who had been annointed by a prophet in response to the prosperous Solomon's rejection of the Covenant with the Lord. A civil war occured and all of nation except for the tribes of Judah and Benjamin split from the Davidic dynasty to form the kingdom of Israel (which lasted until it was destroyed by the Assyrians). The remaining two tribes became the kingdom of Judah, which continued to be ruled by the Davidic line.
That was probably more than needed to be said, but I wanted to clarify that Solomon had nothing politically to do with the split of the kingdom. The only claims that can tie him to it at all are that he did a lousy job teaching his son how to rule and that he became complacent and idolatrous in his religion, which led to the anointing of another ruler and the prophesy that the kingdom would be "taken away" from his son as punishment.
EDIT: I seem to have been beaten to the punch. Ah well. I agree with the above poster about the treatment of Israelite historic figures. Whether or not you believe they performed such miracles, as far as we know, the figures themselves attributed those signs to God. Making them into supermen would probably not be honoring to the individuals' faith. At the same time, I would point out again that Israel in Civ would not equate to Judaism. In real history, God chose Israel, but Moses explains that it was not because they were greater or more numerous than other peoples; God chose them because He chose them. In Civ, Judaism exists already and religious associations with Israel such as Divine intervention at various points on their behalf should be associated with whoever embraces Judaism in the game. In other words, if the Indians found Judaism, God chose the Indians and they get the blessings associated with that if any are ever to be included in-game.
Of course, Firaxis would never include any supernatural influences in the core game unless they could come up with equally balanced blessings for all the other religions (like in the Gods of Old scenario in BtS). No matter what you believe, it makes sense in more than a political-correctness way; the game would be pretty boring if the followers of any specific religion always won because God fought for them.
Rusty Edge
Deity
Well Abraham was Israel/Jacob's grandfather , so he's the Charlamagne of this proposed civ.
Solomon's rule was the height of the ancient civ. His idol worship was the downfall of it.
Mewtarthio
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,930
You mean the post where the Great People are performing various miracles? I'm pretty sure that one was mostly facetious.
The thing is, the actual patriarchs of various religions aren't in the game. You'll note that Jesus isn't in as a Great Prophet. Abraham is solely a figure of religious significance: I wouldn't say he did any actual empire-leading.
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