I'm just...bored.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by damnyankees, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. damnyankees

    damnyankees Warlord

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    I know we've had a lot of threads complaining about this game, but a lot of them are focusing on technical problems - of which there are many. The problem with these analysis is that it's not each technical issue by itself which creates the problems I'm having.

    What you have is a game which is both simplistic and not very immersive. Many people have gone over the simplistic aspects of the game, such as stripping a huge amount of features from previous iterations of the game. No nee to go over that stuff again.

    But that's not necessarily a killer - a simplistic game engine can still be fun if there is a sense that you are building something, creating something. But that doesn't happen in Civ V. In this new game, civilizations don't really expand - I've played at least 10 different games into the modern era, and in 0 of them has the map ever filled up. There's no sense of "nationalism" or of competing civlizations. It's just a glob of disconnected cities with seemingly arbitrary globs of color put around them. Throw in the simplicity with the total lack of features, and you don't even really have to *do* anything in this game. So if you aren't doing anything, and there's no joy in watching a true civilization emerge...what exactly are we doing in this thing.

    This also completely kills replay value. There are a limited number of way to play the game, and there's a limited sense of world-building. Why would I play it over and over? Each game is the same, both in mechanics and atmosphere.

    I think for now I'm done with Civ V and will go back to Civ IV: BTS ROM. Hopefully in the future modding and expansions will bring back an interesting game, but it just isn't there right now.
     
  2. HannibalBarca

    HannibalBarca Chieftain

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    Well said. Your point about the late-game map is especially well-made. Unclaimed land should be a rarity after the mid-game. In Civ V it's the norm right up to 2050.
     
  3. damnyankees

    damnyankees Warlord

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    It's seriously a huge problem. I would venture to say that in most of my games I never even share a border with *anyone* until the modern era, and quite often even not then. It leaves me feeling isolated, like I'm not actually part of any world. I'm just playing by myself over in my corner of the map. There's no sense of world cohesion. It's freaking awful. And I've even done the thing of increasing the number of civs on the map - doesn't really help, since all that means is Civs go to war with one another, stunting growth anyway.
     
  4. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Yep. I went to the dentist today and had more fun than I did playing ciV! :lol:

    It's just....dull.

    I never thought I'd see the day when I had to force myself to play a Civ game instead of craving to play.

    It's like JS is a Wizard and cast dispel fun on the game. :(
     
  5. ShaggyCan

    ShaggyCan Warlord

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    Not saying you are wrong...but I have a question. What map size are you playing on?
    I found with Civ IV people were always grabbing for larger and larger maps.
    I find with this game that anything above standard is just as you describe.
     
  6. damnyankees

    damnyankees Warlord

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    I play mainly on small and standard. The problem is still there.

    And even if I was player on a larger map, so what? I shouldn't be restricted in my map size for this really bad design flaw.
     
  7. DashieBaby87

    DashieBaby87 Chieftain

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    What settings are you all playing on? You may need to add more Civs to a map if it's not filling up, or add more city states.

    The games I've played featured the map filling up decently, with fights for land happening at 0 AD on. I've even playing on the easy mode.

    The map's never going to be 100% full. Civ IV was way too quick with the map filling up, imo.

    ♥
     
  8. Dearmad

    Dearmad Dead weight

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    Quoted for truth. I've played 4 games. Won them all without thinking much about how. It is SAD. Haven't booted up Civ in a week.

    I guess i"m foolishly hoping a patch will make things right... -sigh- :cry:
     
  9. shenryyr

    shenryyr serval

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    50 bucks well spent right?



    right??


    well, the modding community is solid at least.
     
  10. Interslice

    Interslice Chieftain

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    Agreed, it doesn't exactly feel like you're building a civilization when it's just a bunch of sporadic cities littered across the map.

    Part of the problem is the 1 tile border growth but i think what's worse is how the new features punish you for actually expanding.
     
  11. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    This has not been my experience. In most cases the AI is able to expand faster than me. Were you playing Archipelago or some other non-standard setting?

    From what I've seen, it looks like AI has trouble expanding over any body of water, no matter how small, but on the continent it starts on it's ok.
     
  12. jahsoldier

    jahsoldier Warlord

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    I think the main reason it's boring it because no matter what opponent AIs you get, the game is always the same. Ghandi is maybe a bit less likely to DoW on you than Bismarck. Big whoop.

    Well, that and it's boring. There is just less game here.
     
  13. TheDisco

    TheDisco Warlord

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    And you expected Civ4BTS-RoM right out of the gate? :lol:

    Civ4BTS-RoM is the pinnacle of several years of development and modding. But this has been said ad-naseum by now. Go back to Civ4BTS-RoM as it is a great game, but the future of modding will be in Civ5 and the Civ5-exp3-RoM will far surpass Civ4BTS-RoM so keep your eyes looking forward not back...
     
  14. TheDisco

    TheDisco Warlord

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    I agree a bit on the AI DoW. They did remove the role-playing aspects of Civ by adding the "If you are losing go insane and blitzkrieg" part of the AI. There is a mod already which gets rid of that and allows you to actually develop real allies like in Civ4
     
  15. polypheus

    polypheus Prince

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    There are a ton of features that were fundamentally changed and for the worse. So as such I don't see how Civ5-RoM could ever be better than Civ4-RoM. This is because the foundation of Civ5 is a lot more simplified and streamlined than Civ4:BTS. As such Civ5-RoM will also be inferior due to the deficiencies of Civ5 itself most of which simply cannot be modded away. In fact many of what made RoM so great is due to the existence of many features of Civ4 that are now completely gone!
     
  16. logintime

    logintime Warlord

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    The lack of any immersive quality is a huge part of why it is boring for me too. There are so many little details from previous versions of Civilization that are gone in this outing and make the game feel that much shallower.

    Just to cite two minor things:
    1) The lack of any information on city demographics. In Civ4, you knew that a size 6 city had 150,000 residents, that a 12 city had just over a million, etc. It gave a sense of real growth and urbanization. In Civ5? Nothing. No numbers, no idea, nada. A size 4 city is simply a size 4 city. There's still an overall population count tucked away in one of the info sheets in the top-right corner, but that doesn't do nearly so much to make it feel like you really are guiding a dynamic civilization.
    2) The forests. Yeah, seriously, the forests. There's no climatic delineation. Where are the boreal forests? Where's the band of coniferous forests, with the deciduous band between it and the jungles? All the forests between the tundra to the north and south look exactly the same, with the exception of the jungle strips here and there at the equator. This might seem like a minor gripe, but again it interferes with immersion. The visible forest types in Civ4 gave an idea of what the climate in those areas was like, which your civilization would be dealing with. That little detail is lost here.

    Like I said, two minor things. But Civ5 has many minor, unimportant flaws which ultimately all add up to a big problem. It loses all its depth.
     
  17. TheDisco

    TheDisco Warlord

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    Well I've read a bunch of ideas they are building into RoM for Civ5 that are much cooler than what they were able to do in Civ4. Such as electricity as a consumable resource as an example. Imagine needing to build more powerplants to get more electricity that is needed to power more buildings that you want to build. Then imagine optimizing a city for power production to distribute across your empire. Then imagine somebody making a bombing raid on said power-city and cutting off the power to most of your buildings across your entire empire. That was just one idea that is most likely going to be built into Civ5-RoM...
     
  18. jahsoldier

    jahsoldier Warlord

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    also, the more I play, the less I like city states. At first I thought they were cool, now I just think they're an irritating, shallow and exploitable mess. I've taken to turning them off but it's going to take a lot more than that to make this game fun.
     
  19. Baleur

    Baleur Prince

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    Exactly.
    BUT, still, this is a new game, in a new age, a new year. It shouldnt just have better graphics or unit combat or hexes, EVERYTHING should be better.
    The corporations should be in, religion should be in, the expansions worth of features should be in.

    Maybe some claim that these are unfair expectations, but then why make a new huge game if you cut out half of what you already accomplished in the previous game?
    Whats the point of reinventing the wheel, by cutting away 40% of it and slowly but steadily patching it back together over the course of as many years as it took to make the wheel in the first place?

    Because thats whats happening. All the accomplishments with the civ4 expansions and such, is thrown away, and will now be re-attempted over just as many years as they took to create in the first place.
    I'm talking about features, not graphics, ofc those takes time to make.
    But if you're telling me they didnt have time to add all the technologies from Civ4+exps, because they didnt have time to make a few more icons... I'd say thats a pretty poor reason.
    And if "hard to balance" was the reason, well i'd rather have a poorly balanced HUGE game, than a slightly-slightly-less poorly balanced medium game.

    I still love Civ5 though. I dont know why, i just do. But yeah, City states.. Never used them, cost so much, never offer reasonable missions, rewards are trivial at best. (they want me to make all other civs and city states angry by annihilating their enemies, and in exchange i get +2 food in my capital or +14 culture (when i already have 380 culture per turn), or spend gold every few turns to keep them happy? whoopdidoo. as if we needed yet ANOTHER reason to build nothing but trading posts on every spare plot of land..)
     
  20. Slowpoke

    Slowpoke The Mad Modder

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    Honestly, just start playing some mods. The economy mod is massively good, and my total war mod should fill the map with cities and make war interesting. Yes vanilla blows. But Mods are already fixing things. As well, once we figure out exactly how the tactics priorities work in xml, we can probably even fix the A.I.
     

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