1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Immortal Cookbook IV: Pour la patrie

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by carl corey, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    The Immortal Cookbook is a concurrent succession game series aiming to help readers learn how to play and win at Immortal level in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, v3.17.

    The rules of the IMC series are borrowed from the original series played on Monarch (see Monarchist Cookbook Bullpen) and slightly modified:

    1. A 4000 BC save is generated.
    2. All players play one round from that save.
    3. All saves are uploaded with a corresponding report in a spoiler.
    4. In voting rounds each player who posted a save for the round votes for 3 saves: best save receives 3 points, 2nd place 2, and 3rd place 1. You cannot vote for your own save.
    5. In reporting only rounds, players can submit their saves and discuss on what the best continuation is for each save. Each player continues from his own save. Posting a save for reporting only rounds is not necessary but it is encouraged.
    6. Steps 2-4 are repeated using only the previous best save until Victory. In case of a tie players will continue from the save they chose as best among those in the tie. If a player has not voted for any of the saves in the tie, he can choose from which of the tied saves to play. If a player's save is included in the tie he can play from it if he wants to.

    We're going to play as De Gaulle (IND/CHA) of France:

    Settings for this game:



    A reminder: this is normal speed, no huts and no events.

    Starting position:



    We have a whopping 0 discovered resources.

    There will be no roster for this game. Anyone can pick the save chosen as starting point for a round and play the next round. You can also post shadow games in spoilers. Please don't post saves, reports or shadows for future voting rounds before those rounds start.

    Rounds:
    Round 0: The starting save
    Round 1: 4000BC - 1800BC: reporting only
    Round 2: 1800BC - 1000BC: reporting only
    Round 3: 1000BC - 1AD: reporting and voting - best save: Soirana
    Round 4: 1AD - 500AD: reporting only
    Round 5: 500AD - 1000AD: reporting and voting - best save: Carl Corey
    Round 6: 1000AD - 1300AD: reporting only
    Round 7: 1300AD - 1500AD: reporting and voting - deadline: March 20th
    Round 8: 1500AD - 1650AD: reporting and voting
    Round 9: 1650AD - 1800AD: reporting and voting
    Round 10: 1800AD - end

    Please include your username in the save name. There's no specific deadline for rounds 1 and 2, they just need to be posted sometime before the 1AD deadline. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,389
    Location:
    UK
    It was strange someone was asking where this series had got to yesterday. If Soirana doesnt play this he will be in trouble now. :lol:

    I do think the industrial trait will take this down a level in terms of difficulty. Not quite ready for the jump myself. :cry:

    Just noticed the post being French picked the French to play. ;)

    Will be interesting to see if a musket/cannon rush is done here late game.
     
  4. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    The problem was that none of the previous games got much attention after the first rounds. But there were some people still expressing interest in this in the 3rd installement (don't remember if you were one of them, sorry. :) ) so I decided to give it another try.

    Seeing how people value traits in BtS (see the poll thread) I doubt that they'll consider this such a powerful trait/combination.

    I just live in France, I'm not French; I'm Romanian. :)
     
  5. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,389
    Location:
    UK
    Were all part of the EU these days. If not somewhat begrudgingly from a UK point of view. :lol:

    I think the emperor version of this series will generate more interest in this type of game.
     
  6. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    Finally! [puts down written work with tomorrows deadline and drags up reference tables.]

    I do not like all that reporting system, but still better than nothing.
    1800BC? Okay i hope i will stop near it.
     
  7. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    Well, i hate to say but i stopped somewhere close to 700BC.

    i will try to write something

    1800BC
    Spoiler :
    On what date i had only one question: Did you tested or at least shown to someone that map, Carl?

    Fractal gives damn nice percentage of isolated starts and i think we had some conclusion that if wanted these we rather played LHC. I went on hoping we are not isolated as i hardly deal with that on emperor.


    1000BC
    Spoiler :
    BC1040 i built two wonders GLH and Mids. Whipped both being paranoic.
    Very very late GLH and it left me in tech mess and two cities. Well, i was damn prepared for land grab [funny when i settled third and fourth cities income went significantly up.]

    I actually settled my third city clearly suboptimally [missing deer] cause
    Well, that coast supposes some land east and i am not inclined to wait for second border pop up.

    If that does not work and we are isolated with all love for this series i won't go on.


    Spoiler :
    Edit: damn, sorry i believed eastern peninsula was one tile. Now it is clear this game is just another LHC. So i will simply go and see things in WB.

    Thanks for entertainment. Should i've read coast normally would have quitted earlier.

    Edit2: Despite all odds this is not isolated:mischief::blush: Just checked in wordbuilder. Sorry for offense. Funny but i picked correct place for search city
     
  8. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,062
    Location:
    Gone fishing for the summer
    @Soriana:

    Spoiler :

    You're not isolated :) Unfortunately that means that any player who builds the GLH will crush this game...
     
  9. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    Spoiler :
    Yes, i know.

    I mean both parts.
     
  10. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    6,923
    Location:
    Norway
    De gaulle is not a strong leader by any means, i have no idea where you got the idea that ind was a strong trait on immortal...
     
  11. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    The idea was to discuss city placement, how to advance, etc. Obviously if you've already played more than 1800BC your save will only serve as comparison for others who have reached that date, and posting it won't be of much help to you. However, if you'd slow your play a bit you'd probably get interesting advice from fellow players. If everyone just plays, throws in a sketchy report (not saying that's what you did, I haven't looked at it yet of course), and votes without many comments it won't help those of us who are trying to move up to immortal, no? We'd get better saves than ours for future rounds, but we still won't understand how people got to those situations.
     
  12. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    You can freely look behind 1800BC. Honestly that one has very little game info.

    as far as i've read ICIII there were only 1AD saves. Same for discussion at these dates.
     
  13. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    3,513
    - 1800BC

    Spoiler :


    My first big question settle in place or move? The blue circle is on the coast but if you move and there isn't any fish, do you move again?

    Decided to settle in place hoping for a couple of food sources in the mist. Un-irrigated wheat :( at least its not rice. :)

    Initial techs were Mining/BW (no bronze that I can see)/Myst/(SH was built in 2440 before I even started)(GW2100 ish)/Fish/Sail. Oracle built in 1800 at least I won't have to try for that. :) Currently finishing off Masonry and as it seems were isolated I'll try for the GLhouse. Orleans was built on the coast by the crab/sheep in 2440 with this in mind (also coast to the East).

    At the moment I'm using warriors for defence/fogbusting at least with a barracks they only need 1 promotion to get C1/Cover. I will need better troops shortly so if AH doesn't uncover anything it will be on to Hunt/Arch.

    Two things I initially forgot.

    1. I usually avoid slavery early but with no events, no problem.

    2. Charismatic. So higher happy cap and +1 :) with monument.

    On to the next 800 years. :)
     
  14. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    3,513
    1800 - 1000BC

    Spoiler :


    Very short round. Techs Mas/AH yay horses. I had settled Lyons before I knew the horses were there so bit of a luck, Pot and on to writing.

    Lands as at 1240BC



    As expected land to the East.

    Then in 1000BC. Good timing.



    We are not alone. :)

    I'm currently building the Mids/GLh but I won't to rush a settler over to the little island and start settling the flood plain sites for some much needed cottages/commerce.

    On to the next 1000 years. :)
     
  15. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,327
    Location:
    In the clouds
    I'm in. I'll try to post sooner rather than later!
     
  16. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    I know. Same thing in all the games. Result: I still don't play on Immortal, and still don't know how to reach the dominant positions some of the players reached. :) What I posted here is taken from the Deity Cookbook thread, where it seemed to work quite nicely. Seriously now, I'm puzzled: is it THAT hard to stop playing for a while, take a look around and talk about the saves? I never understood why people play this series if they're not interested in feedback. :confused:
     
  17. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    3,513
    - 1AD

    Spoiler :


    Tech path this turn went 800BC Writing, 450BC Hunt (I had teched most of aesthetics but needed to get the deer camped), 425BC Aesth, 300BC Alpha (400 years to learn to write, 125 years to learn to spell, not that I can anyway ;)).

    I traded for Math/IW/Arch with Peter for Aesth/Alpha, I tried for Med instead of Arch but he wouldn't go for it so is was a fairish deal. Then Med/Priest both of which took 1 turn and lastly 25BC currency.

    We might be industrial but I don't think I will be building to many early wonders. Conf was founded in 1160, Christ 425BC.

    World wonders built in distant land. ToA went in about 1100BC, Mids about 600ish (did get about 300 gold for missing them) Parth 375BC, SoZ 300BC, HG 100BC and GLib 50BC. I have opened the Heroic Epic so early Lit will be good for selling and the HE/NE. I suspect the GA from music went in 200 BC as well. You might have noticed 1 wonder missing from this list and:



    A 2 person whip and the GLhouse is ours. :). I did also pop copper in Orleans so that helped a lot.

    I went on to meet Shaka and Ragnar. Religion wise Rag was Jewish but both he Shaka and Peter who founded Buddhism are now a happy Buddhist family so when it spread to me I joined before waiting to be asked. I haven't met anymore AI yet but don't think it will be to long. I have a wb over in Ragnar's lands and a scout on auto explore in Russia (which is huge).

    Tech path. I gifted Shaka writing so 1 turn into Monarchy I should be able to pick that up, revolt to HR which will enable me to tech trade with Rag some time. ;)

    Current tech situation.



    Next plan after Monarchy is CoL/Lit hope to bulb Philo. The first GP was a GM, I had been running scientists as well. There was no point in bulbing currency as I had nearly finished. Next tech would have been MC so decided to settle him in Paris as the extra food would come in handy.

    Paris. Nothing very startling although it will have to start pumping some military and workers/settlers.



    Current lands. Everything very small although I have 1 more settler ready to settle next turn so plan to cottage all the floodplains which will help the tech rate. I will rex the island as quick as possible trying to keep most cities coastal.

    The power of the GLhouse. I settled Chartres this turn.



    12 gold from trade income straight off.

    Current lands.



    Not very impressive but will improve. The Rheims will get a barracks, gran, lhouse and walls then will whip troops overflow into the Moai statues as any attack will likely come through there, though hopefully we will be able to grow in peace.

    Rushed the report a bit as have to go to work so I apologise if it doesn't read to well. ;)



     

    Attached Files:

  18. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    Hard to say. 1800 on normal? I caught myself on arround 1500.

    When again i was severely pissed at that moment. Especially remebering you have tendency not to have someone take look at map in advance. [i do remember few times IC was asking for someone to confirm it is *balanced map*].

    I think despite my semineurotic reaction i will finish off my round since i have incredible bad record on IC [blasted by barbs, played half drunk...]. I can play emperor normal offline without problems. Just my Immortal normal timing is totally out of place which is even harder when i try to leverage something like indutrous

    Besides i think you can use event log to track some interesting moments. Quite a desperate move but better than nothing. [i actually did with previous series and that helped. not a lot but certainly did.]

    to sleepless
    Spoiler :
    Why you thought were would be land east? Corners were actually clear. In my game i simply automaticaly looked and decided like "4 ocean tiles = something odd" without looking at coastline.


    regarding start:
    Spoiler :
    I also was tempted to go for blue circle, especially since moving warrior west showed lots of grassland. But i felt like it was too much gamble. I don't recall seeing capital without food even if that is plains cows
     
  19. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    Well, for me the idea of these series is to be able to win on Immortal, "normal" maps (Fractal, Pangaea, Continents, etc). That means winning regardless of the availability of resources, whether we're isolated, semi-isolated (only one contact) or have lots of neighbors, whether we have Shaka, Monty and Alex (war machines) or Mansa, Wang Kon and Gandhi (peaceful techers) as neighbors, whether it's an easy map to fogbust or we're swimming in barbs etc. If we can win only those maps on which we have place for 8-9 or more cities, have a resource nearby, and have 3-4 neighbors, well then, we can't actually win on Immortal, can we? Sometimes you have to live with 6 cities and play your diplomacy well to keep the AIs from killing you until you get Rifling and get out of the cage. Sometimes you're isolated and have Mansa, Huayna Capac and Hannibal on another continent, all the same religion and happily tech trading. If you've followed aelf's series, he managed to win games in Warlords in which he was in really tough spots. He proved it can be done in situations in which many of us would have quit in disgust. So yeah, I will continue my policy of not checking the maps and playing the hand we're dealt. Of course, provided that the series attracts enough interest and fulfills its purpose of an open discussion about how to win at Immortal.
     
  20. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    Well, personally i have enough trouble with immortal alone leaving aside extra problems.

    Well, i think being isolated with someone like Shaka or Gilgamesh untill astro is probably worst case scenario.
     

Share This Page