Immortal Dutch Domination - REX/Spy Fusion



The scientist-spam works, and Amsterdam is blessed by a Great Scientist who founds an Academy, which boosts our beakers per turn from 952 to 1030! (373)



Amsterdam will not be building National Epic, though, as we plan to take Cuzco and plant the NEpic there to have a tandem GP-farm thing going on between the two cities. [Editor’s note: math analysis will show that I should have put the NE in Amsterdam anyway to get the most GPs in this game, but whatever, it wasn’t a critical error given that the rest of our start up to this point.] (376)



We start selling our world map around. (378-83; mostly not pictured.)



Roosevelt, sit down and shut up. As a vassal, you do not even have the ability to declare war on us should we refuse to give you anything. (384)





We would love to do this during a golden age to save a turn of anarchy, but whatever, switching to Emancipation and Free Market in just one turn is pretty good, too. (386)







We are doing okay in power rating for the time being. Replaceable Parts->Rifling is up next. Only Korea does not yet have gunpowder, but we will leapfrog muskets in favor of riflemen in just a few turns thanks to our massive gold reserves allowing for a deficit research rate. (389)

I stopped playing at this point to take a breather. It should be interesting to see how this game stacks up against the first run-through. The game so far is eerily similar to my the game the first time around, except that I was a bit faster to take Scythian this time and therefore got more cities out of it; unfortunately I also built far fewer workers this time, which slowed down the development of many cities. Another major thing that changed is that I took the advice of y’all and settled the city east of Amsterdam; it should be a dominant naval yard eventually and take the burden of producing naval units off The Hague and Amsterdam, which are commerce-oriented cities. The last major thing that changed is that Inca went after Astronomy this time; the first time around nobody went after Astronomy for a long time, allowing me time to spam privateers like crazy. It ought to be harder this time to suffocate our rivals.

Renegotiated with Ragnar to up the gpt we get for cows. (389c; not pictured)



Buddhism, Judaism, and Hinduism are dominant. Suleiman-Ragnar on Buddhaland are a strong pair. Sitting Bull and Gilgamesh are both Jewish. Capac went Free Religion on us, which sucks, as we are left as the only Hindus now, other than Capac’s colony (America). (389d)



Prod cities have been focusing on infrastructure during this lull before Riflemen. Replaceable Parts means that we’re getting really close to Rifles. (389e)



We ignore the Mil Trad research. Although we can get Cavs in about 7 turns, we don’t have the kind of production necessary to get the mass cavs needed to run over a Protective civ like Korea, or a civ on the verge of Rifles, like, well, everybody. Note though that Haarlem gets hit twice: water poisoning and granary arson. Also, Maastricht is getting pummeled by Native American culture, so it builds Hermitage to try to cope. (389f)

Suleiman says that it is theoretically possible to bribe him to DoW on someone, but we just don’t have enough tech/gold. Ditto with Ragnar. (389g; not pictured)



Gunpowder done; we go for Rifling next, as our prod cities wrap up their building construction and will resume unit construction when we can build Riflemen. (389j)



Beginning with screenshot 390, we again trade maps around with everyone and make some money in the process. There’s no use in hoarding the maps now, not when more and more rivals are getting Astronomy and can trade maps with each other. (390-1; not pictured)



Just in case we can’t easily get Divine Right later on to activate Spiral and Versailles, we trade with the least advanced civ to get it, in exchange for Banking and Paper. (392)



The Amsterdam continues its scouting voyages. (393)



Even with copper and all the other bonuses like Bureaucracy, Amsterdam is taking a long time to build the Statue of Liberty. It’s such a hugely important wonder, though, that we forsake monastery and bank construction just to shave off a few turns from its completion. (394)



Barbarians have longbows now. Earlier, we sent up some siege and veteran units to knock out that city and maybe gain enough experience points to get to level 4 = Heroic Epic time! The Galleon, or, excuse me, the EAST INDIAMAN, built by The Hague, Trompest in a Teapot II, is there to ferry troops across the narrow body of water. (395)



Wang Kon basically asks for Rifling. Yes, the same wanker who poisoned and sabotaged our cities repeatedly. (396) We refuse. He’s too much of a pansy to declare war on us in retaliation, though, as his hands remain empty. (397; not pictured.)
 

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Amsterdam White House, Oval Office, 1535 AD.

“Admiral Tromp’s field report, sir!” the messenger says as he hands Willem a letter.

“Thank you. Dismissed,” Willem replies as he breaks the seal and reads Maarten’s field report.

“How are we doing, Mr. President?” Ilse says with a grin as she walks into Maarten’s office.

Willem grins back. “Splendidly! Maarten’s army has dispatched 16,000 longbow-equipped barbarians on the eastern end of Long Island, paving the way for its settlement. More troops and settlers are en route to colonize the rest of the island. What about our domestic report?”

“Well, Chris is doing his best to avoid scientific methodology, but that can’t last long. So I’ve had some of our culture-challenged border cities build some monasteries now, before Scientific Method prevents their construction. Also, Utrecht is training many spies for homeland security, and we’ve stationed them in critical cities such as Amsterdam and cities near Korea.”

“Why can’t our lack of scientific methodology last long?”

“Ragnar already has Scientific Method.”

“Oh $#@%!”

“That’s what Chris said. In fact, here he comes now.”

Chris bursts into the Oval Office, out of breath. “Willem! We’ve got to research (pant) scientific (pant) method and (pant) beat Ragnar (pant) to physics!”

“Calm down, Chris! Pull yourself together.”

Chris breathes deeply and sighs. “10 years.”

“What?”

“10 years is all it will take for us to get Scientific Method.”

“Good!”

“But then we need to beat him to Physics.”

“Oh.”

“Maarten? What are you doing here?” Chris says as he turns his head to look down the hall.

Maarten bursts into the room, out of breath. “Good news and (pant) bad news (pant), Willem.”

“Slow down, Maarten. It can’t be any worse news than I just heard from Chris.”

Maarten “The good news is that we have upped our espionage activity to the level where we can estimate our rivals’ military power. The bad news is that we have what is apparently the smallest army on Colossia, and Suleiman’s army is over half again as strong as ours.”

“Oh $#@%!”
 


Buzz off Rosie, you are a freaking vassal, why should we listen to any threats from you? (398)



We do trade some fish to Rosie to get 1 gpt, though. (400)



Rifling done. Sci Meth would void Great Library and monasteries, which are helping to crank out plenty of beakers. Let’s go for Chemistry instead and maybe get all the way to Steam Power to unlock our UB (Dike) before we go back for Sci Meth. (402)



Chem done, we’re going to get Dikey now. (405)



Four unpromoted longbows on plains versus 2 trebs, 2 cats, and 3 veteran melee units. We can’t capture the city in 1 turn, but we can do it in 2. (407)



Despite 75%+ odds, treb 1 fails. (408)



Treb 2 has nearly 80% odds and survives. The maceman with CR2 has 87%+ odds. (409)



The maceman wins. A swordsman goes in and wins with 80% odds. (410)



Let’s milk some more xp out of this and send in a cat to soften up the 2 remaining longbows. Also, losing a cat or two is no big deal, but we need the melee to survive to take out the city next turn for good. (411)



The second swordsman mops up. (412)



The remaining longbow is so weak that even our last cat has high odds, at 93%+. (413)



The longbowman has healed, but we cat it again. (415)



The severely injured longbowman is no match for our CR2-promoted, semi-injured maceman. (416)



The maceman can make level 4 next turn and thus unlock Heroic Epic. Unfortunately I can’t figure out which city should get HE, so it does not get built for a while. (417)



An overview of production. Middelburg and Rotterdam are carrying our entire civ on their backs, by being our sole Riflemen-producing centers. 's-Hertogenbosch (East Fort/Moai), Haarlem, and Delft are younger prod cities that aren't done making infrastructure. Korean sabotage certainly isn't helping them get done any quicker. Utrecht could help with rifle production a bit, but it would need to make barracks first, and right now it’s making some workers and spies to consolidate our economic position and to counter the waves of sabotage coming from Korea. (418)



We’re in BIG trouble. Ragnar has SciMeth already, which is just 1 step short of Physics. Steam Power research must come to a screeching halt as we go for Physics to deny Ragnar the free Great Scientist. (419)



We all remember what happened when the original Trompest in a Teapot rammed a barb ship, right? (421)



That was then, using slave labor, and this is now, using fanatically religious Hindu workers. The East Indiaman also drops off a settler, which founds our first city not located on Colossia: Dorestad. (422)



Really bad news in the defense department: as our espionage grows in strength, we gain more and more information about our rivals, and we see that Suleiman has a major lead on Sumer, Korea, and the Netherlands. We must accelerate military production so that we don’t look like the easiest target for the Ottomans. (423)

***

Useful link to see what makes up a power rating/number of soldiers, by the way:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3811164
 
Still on strike because you let 001 die!!!!! That kid is going to grow up without a dad :(

Research is pumping by the way. Scientific method in 2 turns. Nice. And after that the dikes will come into play. Science is also power, so you will catch up in power soon but I think you really need to focus a bit more on units. I don't know how your diplomatic situation is.

Keep it up.
 
Still on strike because you let 001 die!!!!! That kid is going to grow up without a dad :(

Research is pumping by the way. Scientific method in 2 turns. Nice. And after that the dikes will come into play. Science is also power, so you will catch up in power soon but I think you really need to focus a bit more on units. I don't know how your diplomatic situation is.

Keep it up.

Jan's kid will grow up. All in good time. :)

Diplo situation: Huayna is still a friend, despite his Free Religion stunting our Hindu connection. Decent terms with everyone else, despite the religion difference, EXCEPT for Korea which is hellbent on sabotaging Haarlem, Leiden, and Delft to death. Military situation is fine on our own continent as long as we keep pumping riflemen like there's no tomorrow, as we have leapfrogged everybody else's muskets. But the Ottomans are so far ahead of us in power (more than 30% higher in power) that they are potentially war adversaries. The power rating of others is kind of a mystery right now as only 3 civs' power ratings show up.
 
I don't have BtS yet, but I thought you can station spies in cities to counter espionage. Have you already done that? Otherwise building a spy is better then building a monastry for example.
 
I don't have BtS yet, but I thought you can station spies in cities to counter espionage. Have you already done that? Otherwise building a spy is better then building a monastry for example.

Yes, Haarlem has had a spy parked there for a while now, and Korea still manages to hit it repeatedly! Utrecht is building/has built/will build enough spies to cover our most critical cities as well as the ones near Korea; eventually all cities will have spies. It just isn't enough to stop the determined Korean saboteurs, especially since we are playing catch-up in the EP game, after 1000s of years of putting 100% of our EPs against Inca.
 
man, that dike is going to make the maoi city a pretty nice spot. The production spike you'll have will sure help out a lot with troop catch up.

EDIT: I just took a look at the save...I dont want to spoil anything, but I think we'll have some very interesting updates coming soon (no i didnt look at it through WB :p). also, for espionage, you might want to weight it so it doesnt give points towards roosevelt. Since he's just a vassal, and also comes in with Huayna's EPs, you'd have to spend 330ish points just to see his demographics, which imo, would be better spent towards the other civs.

ps: amsterdam is looking pretty nice, 480 beakers/turn ;)
 
Great thread, very entertaining. I just thought I'd unlurk and say that... I figure you deserve the appreciation.
 
“This better be good,” Willem grumbles as he slips into the bath at the Apostolic Palace.

“It is, it is!” Huayna says assuringly. “Isn’t that right, Rosie?”

“Yup!” Roosevelt obliges like the good little vassal he is.

“Oh brother,” Sitting Bull says, cupping a hand over his eyes.

“So what’s the resolution this time?” Willem asks.

“To stop all trade--”

“I said no already!” Willem starts to get up.

“--with the vile Vikings.” Willem sits back down, stunned.

“The Vikings do seem to be a threat,” Willem says.

“They may be beating you to Physics even now!” Huayna says, egging Willem on. “Can you imagine? A Buddhist with physics?”

“I can’t believe I’m saying this, but for once I agree with Capac. Down with the Buddhist infidels,” Sitting Bull chimes in.

“Is it unanimous then?” Huayna asks, clasping his hands in anticipation.

“Yes!” Willem says with a wide grin. “Give me a Hindu Hug! I can’t believe you proposed a worthwhile resolution for once! Even a blind squirrel finds the nut, sometimes!”

***

Pictured: Rene Decartes, scientist/philosopher.

“I say, unhand me you foul-breathed ogre,” Rene says as he is marched to the pyre, a soldier on each arm and his legs shackled together by chains. “I don’t understand how you expect me to advance Dutch science by dying.”

“Shut up, you!” the soldier to his left says, cuffing Rene.

“Sir!” says the soldier on his right, as the trio reaches Maarten and Chris, who are standing with a small crowd next to a huge mound of wood. Maarten is holding a flaming torch and sets the wood on fire.

“Fear not, fellow scientist,” Chris tells Rene. “If my calculations are correct, your timely death will bring us very close to discovering Physics first, after which you will be reincarnated as another Great Scientist.”

“Why don’t you sacrifice that scientist first?” Rene pleads.

“Well, he isn’t alive yet, because you aren’t dead yet!” Chris grins.

“Fine, why don’t you sacrifice someone else who is currently alive, then?” Rene sighs.

“Nope, you’re our only Great Scientist,” Chris replies, apologetically.

“I don’t even believe in reincarnation; I'm not Hindu!”

“Have you ever considered converting? Now would be a good time,” Chris says cheerfully.

“Into the fire you go!” Maarten barks as Rene is tossed into the raging fire.

“Aieeeeeeeeeeeee!”


***

Amsterdam, White House, Oval Office, 1565 AD.

“We did it!” Chris says, walking into the Oval Office, where the rest of the staff is assembled. “We sacrificed Rene Decartes to the gods and then discovered Physics and reincarnated him as Enrico Fermi!”

“Hooray!” Ilse exclaims as she hugs everybody.

“Let’s not forget that even as we speak, my navy and army are subduing the Nubians on the western side of Long Island!” Maarten sniffs.

“Crabs for everyone!” Willem grins.

“We’re also training riflemen in Rotterdam and Middelburg like there’s no tomorrow, and Delft’s barracks should be online soon as well,” Maarten adds. “Unfortunately, Haarlem’s granary was sabotaged again, and its main water supply poisoned again, despite our counterintelligence agent there, and it may be a while before it begins to train many troops.”

“On the positive side, Haarlem did discover a massive silver deposit,” Ilse adds. “We’ve also mapped most of the world and have disbanded our ancient caravels and sent their crews back home.”

“And we’re also going to build dikes everywhere and are working on increasing farm production,” Chris says. “Also, your latest erection for Ilse, the Statue of Libido, I mean, uh, Liberty, is complete.”

“Tonight we celebrate in the restaurant inside of the Statue’s torch,” Willem coos to Ilse.
 


We need soldiers, but we’re also on the verge of losing Physics to Ragnar, so in order to stem our big maintenance costs down south, Delft makes the Forbidden Palace. [Editor’s note: in hindsight, it should have gone directly to riflemen production; I must been smoking crack when I made that move.] (425)



By the way, I messed up here as well. We were supposed to crank up the research rate on the turn before discovering SciMeth, in order to maximize our research output from Gr Library and monasteries before they went obsolete, but I forgot to do so. However, we are bound by an ironclad rule: no reloads. So we have to suck it up and play. (426)



Haarlem discovers silver in a regular grassland hill mine! (428)

Great Scientist Rene Decartes is born in Amsterdam, just in time to bulb for Physics and get another GS. We’ll wait a few turns, though, because a larger population means more beakers from Decartes’s bulb, which can generate 1983 beakers if we pop him this turn. Also, we might lose Physics in a turn or two and if that happens, Rene might be used for something else instead. (429; not pictured)



Great Merchant Andrew Carnegie had been sleeping for a while, in case we got an artist or some other crappy GP. Now, with Rene about to bulb and no other GPs around, we might as well settle Carnegie. (430)



We will ignore any demands to switch away from the AP religion and its +2 hammer bonus. Gilgamesh doesn’t have full hands after this exchange, so no real harm is done. (433)



Interesting. Ragnar is the points and tech leader among AIs, so if we vote yes, we can really hamper his trading with any Hindu-infected civs (Inca, America, Native America, and us). So we vote yes and hope that he doesn’t target us for extermination. Even if he does, by the time he assembles a big invasion force and sends it over, it will be out of date, out of range for upgrading, and out of range for easy reinforcements. (435)





Rene’s bulbing shaves off 2 turns from Physics. We’ll probably get there first. (436, 437)



Bull demands that we quit trading for Ragnar on the same turn that we already did so. We say ‘yes’ to Bull, though later on I realize that it gave us an extra diplo hit with Ragnar, so we probably should have said ‘no’ to Bull. (438)







Bad news. We though we could settle the rest of Long Island peacefully, but there is a barb city on the western end, and it has been there so long that it has border-popped! (442)



Physics race won. Steam Power again for Dikes. (446)



Fermi gets to settle in Amsterdam. (448)



Four hilltop longbows is too much for the light offense we have. We’re going to need either more troops or at least one or two riflemen to take the barb city. On the bright side, the hilltop barb town will save us a settler, as it is perfectly placed. (449)

Upped our sugar trade to Bull to 18 gpt. (450; not pictured.)



Haarlem gets hit again, despite the spy stationed there! The granary goes up in flames. We take some solace in hearing about Seoul’s mining accident, though. (451)



Mass dikes time. (453)



I made a mistake and went after Bio before Communism, thinking we’d have enough time for that, but Capac stole Communism. (454)



SoL. (455)



We eventually delete our outdated caravels and scouts after they map most of the world. (456)

***

I’m not sure how others handle this, but whenever I find myself in a situation where I know more advanced troops are just over the horizon, I tell the prod cities to produce some less-critical buildings like aqueducts (when health is already high; the prod cities will need them when factories go up). If none are available, or if I need to keep up in the power ratings, I’ll tell them to build stuff that lasts a long time. In this game, we went from crossbows/pikemen/elephants to riflemen. During the gap, the prod cities built some jails and such, and when they were done, they went for pikemen. Pikes don’t really go obsolete until rivals get cavs; they are decent against cuirassiers. Contrast that to muskets, crossbows, and longbows, which have a hard time against cuirassiers, not to mention pretty much everything else.

***

Also, this is completely off-topic, but bulbing Great People--what the heck is that supposed to represent? It reminds me of The Foundation series by Asimov where The Mule forces a smart guy to burn his brains out by slaving away over a research project. Well, I didn’t want to get into The Mule in the entry. But we all understand fire, right? So into the fire went Rene Decartes!
 
Seoul Palace, throne room, Korea. Two men, one of whom is using a mechanical respirator to assist his breathing, after his injuries from falling out of a castle proved more serious than he thought, several of his ribs having nearly pierced his lungs...

“Master, it is done. We have poisoned Haarlem again using a blend of the deadliest Scythian and Korean poisons,” King Fenius Farsa says as he kneels before Wang Kon. “Our spies are doing their best to burn down their granary again, and we are active in Leiden and Delft as well.”

“Excellent. We shall bring law and order to the heathen Dutch even if it kills them,” Wang Kon replies, stroking his beard as he paces back and forth in the throne room.

“What of my people? You promised me that we would receive Haarlem as a reward for our labors.”

“All in good time,” Wang Kon snaps. “Do not underestimate the power of the Confucian side.”

“Yes, my master,” Fenius says, bowing deeply.

“Now go, go and wreak more havoc and you shall regain your rightful throne.”

“Yes master,” Fenius says, before turning and marching out, breathing deeply through his mechanical respirator.

***

“I thought it would be bigger than this,” Willem remarks as he and Ilse see the Waters of Life Oasis for the first time, on the far outskirts of Amsterdam.

“Well, the waters are supposed to heal the sick and injured, not impress the healthy and frisky,” Ilse says, tickling Willem’s ribs.

William laughs and wraps his arm around her, trying to forget about the huge Viking army on the other side of the world, for the time being.

-----------------------------------------



In a classic case of indecisiveness, I can’t figure out which city I want to have Heroic Epic, but our two mature prod cities continue to crank out riflemen, riflemen, and more riflemen. Other cities begin Dike building, though a few cities, like Amsterdam, finish up their current builds before going for Dikes. (457)



Haarlem is poisoned yet again! Is our spy stationed there asleep or are the Korean spies just that good? (458)



An oasis gets a bonus. Too bad that it’s not in any city’s fat cross--yet. (459)









We check various troops’ odds. 71% is too low to risk losing a rifleman over something like this second-tier barb city, especially since our nearly-obsolete siege units can’t capture cities, so we send in the treb first to soften up the defenders. (461-64)



The treb doesn’t do that much collateral damage, and the soon-to-be-obsolete catapult gets to go next to soften up the defenders. This raises the rifleman’s odds to about 85%. It wins! (Editor's note: the cat probably should have attacked prior to treb if longbows didn't have first strike, but we wanted to make sure that the longbow that took the first hit, wouldn't be able to simply kill the cat without a scratch via First Strike.) (465)



The CR3-promoted maceman also has good odds, at 81.5%. It also wins. (466)





Against all odds, both swordsmen manage to mop up on this turn, saving us from having to promote-heal the rifleman to finish off the last longbowman. One of the swordsmen gets to CR3 from his battle. (467-68)



The barb town, despite its border pop that indicates a long period of development, is empty of buildings. That’s not too surprising, given the dearth of hammer-producing tiles nearby. In fact, Long Island would be a semi-crappy place to settle cities for anyone other than the Dutch, who have dikes for hammers. At least the city gives us crabs so we don’t have to trade for them. (469)



Suleiman is not preparing to invade anyone right now, though he can be bribed to do so. (470)



Suleiman has a strong military and yet is not a major tech threat, so we don’t mind trading him some corn for gpt. Maybe it will evolve into +diplo points for supplying him with resources, and thus make us less likely to be his target when he does declare war. (471)



Sitting Bull demands that we convert to Judaism. What, and give up the +2 hammer bonus from each Hindu building? No way. His hands remain empty. (473-74; not pictured)



Biology! This means a population boom in our production cities, as well as more specialists, more population points for the AP/UN votes, a higher power rating, and, unfortunately, more health problems from overcrowding. As mentioned before, we should have gone for Communism before Bio to grab the free Great Spy, but I didn’t realize how close Capac was to getting Communism. (475)

I switch Nijmegen to build the FP, saving a national wonder slot at Delft that I was thinking might be a HE, but it turned out that Middelburg was in a better position to build HE and spam units, after Biology’s super-farms. I will make a list of ‘dumb moves’ at the end of this story so that I and others can learn from them, and this waffling over HE and FP placement was one of those dumb moves. Delft should have pumped rifles instead of taking the FP detour. (477; not pictured)



You can see the chain-irrigation leading up into Middelburg; this increased farm production means that it’s worthwhile to build more mines now. Previous to Biology, there wasn’t enough food near Middelburg (our HE/WP city; Heroic Epic, West Point, though we have yet to have a level 6 unit to build WP) to work all of those hills. Also, the discovery of Steam Power means that coal is revealed, and that windmill over the coal simply has to go! (478)



Wow. (GULP) At least we have a bigger army than Korea. And at least we got the Hindu bloc to stop trading with Ragnar. But still. Wow. (479)
 
does all this talk about the viking army mean you finally got enough eps on them to see their demographics?
 
Poor people of Haarlem. Granary destroyed, several times poisoned, ouch. Even though there is a spy stationed. I like this aspect of BtS. Good luck with them. Maybe teach the korean a lesson? But for that you need units, ahem, UNITS ;) You could also use some spies on Korea maybe? How about the counter espionage actions you can take? Very interested to see how this works out.

's Hertogenbosch is however shaping up nicely. Already size 17 and has an overflow of 7 food still. And now with the dikes and the maoi statues this is a kick ass city.
 
ahh no i didnt. my internet has been a little whacky so it didnt load that picture. When i saw that i was like :eek:. how is he able to some what keep up tech wise with so many troops? I guess that may be why you were able to still get physic. you could probably handle any stack that he sends over (if he does before rifling), but it would probably still do a significant amount of damage, especially if he manages to take moai city since it would destroy the moai along with many other building right? I dont know how he feels about huayna, but i think you dont have to really worry about an attack from him too much since it's a lot more inconvenient to attack you that huayna.
 
I already suspected somthing like this, after having seen what your power was compared to Suleyman, who again appeared to be quite week compared to Ragnar...


Good thing is, that you are far, far away;)

Hey now you were in a similar position against India in your Don Deity game, let's not give up hope just yet, especially with my long-range early warning system--checking to see if he has full hands, plus the huge Orange Ocean to the east of Amsterdam. ;)

I'm not too worried once we get more rifles or more cannons or both; our rivals don't even have that many muskets yet, so an invasion stack by Ragnar or Suleiman would probably mean macemen, trebs, crossbows, and knights with a few muskets thrown in.
 
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