Immortal Earth18 challenge: single city isolated start

[none]

I'm far from the Immortal level but that map idea looks really sweet. I've got to give it a try

 

[UWHabs]

Really? That sucks. I was under the impression that only HoF barred it for some gauntlets.

If it was patched out it was stupid IMO. If you wanted city razing, you wouldn't have clicked that OPTIONAL setting, and it's not like it mattered either way in terms of your own city, since losing it is an instant loss in OCC no matter what the AI does with it.

I hope this isn't true. I was already somewhat annoyed at the idiocy over breaking overflow AGAIN while ignoring unit order glitches and a faulty GUI. If they deliberately pulled an optional game setting over an "exploitative" argument then they clearly need a ton of work on patching priority, because that pushes 3.19 closer to being a disgrace.

Well, it is exploitable in that you'd still be allowed the 5 national wonders per city, without the strict rules of 6-8 libraries for Oxford, etc...

That being said, it's an "exploit" that would actually be fun. Then in a game like this, you could properly use Oxford/Globe/NE in this cap, then go conquer Europe. As you mentioned, it's all optional settings anyways - I don't see why they couldn't have left this "bug" around to play.

 

[usmle]

Mids seems like a good play with Alex's traits - guess the only issue with running rep is making sure we have enough happiness throughout.

Wondering whether to try for early bulbing of astro or go for a bit of a wonder/settled specialist economy.

I went with Hereditary Rule and great scientist spamming, and tried to resist building too many wonders to avoid diluting the GP pool.

I'm a fairly low-level player, so would appreciate answers to some naive questions, like:

• With the 1-city restriction for the initial island, is all that seafood useful? Pre-Sushi, I mean?
• With only 2 happiness sources pre-contact, is it important to try for a few religions? Presumably Confucianism and Taoism, I suppose; anything earlier, or leave them to the AIs?

Food is always useful! I lost on this map by researching 3 early religions, all of the Old World ended up as one religion leading to a diplo loss.

Too bad I'm still far from playing Immortal...

I'm far from the Immortal level but that map idea looks really sweet. I've got to give it a try

No way I can play at Immortal.

It'll be easier than you think, this is a rigged map. In fact, if you're an Emperor level player normally, you might want to try this on DIETY. Which is what I will be doing as soon as I get a chance.

One puzzlement about the river connectivity

That's a quirk..err.. it's a consequence of the impossibly well-placed gravity ignoring river (commerce bonus is still there).

Well, it is exploitable in that you'd still be allowed the 5 national wonders per city, without the strict rules of 6-8 libraries for Oxford, etc...

That being said, it's an "exploit" that would actually be fun. Then in a game like this, you could properly use Oxford/Globe/NE in this cap, then go conquer Europe. As you mentioned, it's all optional settings anyways - I don't see why they couldn't have left this "bug" around to play.

Play with any settings you want of course. Load it up as an OCC and (selectively) raze the world..

 

[Nares]

I went with Hereditary Rule and great scientist spamming, and tried to resist building too many wonders to avoid diluting the GP pool.

Spoiler :

I originally tried this approach, and ended up watching Hatty research Liberalism while I researched Education. In replaying the map, I went with wonderspam. Representation is just that much better.

As for GPP pollution, I didn't experience any (despite 2% GA input). But, I see most of the great people as useful. GP/GMs offset maintenance costs. I popped a ton of GPs thanks to the Oracle plus the free priest from the Temple of Artemis. Not only did they keep me well in the green (upwards of +40gpt@100% ~820AD Liberalism), but they paid for maps, as well as the huge sums needed to bargain techs such as Code of Laws for Machinery (didn't want to give away Paper or Philosophy).

GS/GEs both provide great research rates. The only challenge was pushing the GS for an Academy, but with TGL and massive scientist spam, I overcame the other GPP and popped a GS on the second great person after completing TGL (I hadn't run scientists prior to completing it, so I wasn't miffed when the first one popped for my umpteenth GP).

As for wonders, I built the Oracle, the Temple of Artemis, the Pyramids, the Great Library, the National Epic, the Colossus and the Shwedagon Paya (I saved at Lib). I built that final wonder when I was faced with the choice of researching either Philosophy or Civil Service; it seemed like a way to get the best of both at once, given that I had already found the Code of Laws religion (and freed up the Philosophy religion for one of the AIs no less).

I lost on this map by researching 3 early religions, all of the Old World ended up as one religion leading to a diplo loss.

Spoiler :

I just wanted to comment on one thing; what to do with Hatshepsut's worker.

You only have a handful of turns to decide between declaring war and snagging it, or playing nice with Hatty. In my first run-through, I chose the former. I should also note, I did not found a religion the first time through.

My problem with this is two-fold: 1) a religion is necessary for Pacifism fun; and 2) your relationship with Hatty is screwed no matter what. The second point depends on two factors: 1) did you found a religion (which you should); and 2) did Hatty vassalize anyone (namely Mansa Musa, who self-vassalized after he traded Feudalism to her)?

Seeing as you want a religion, and the only way to get it in a timely manner is to found it, then you're probably going to take a relationship hit with her once she picks up her own religion (whether she founds it or not).

Additionally, if she vassalizes anyone (again, namely Mansa Musa), your relationship with her is now the average of your relationship with her as well as her vassals. The issue here not only is that the value of your diplomatic persuasion is "cut in half" once this happens, but her vassal may very well suffer from the same conditions she does (ie a heathen religion).

There's no real value in maintaining a good relationship with her for two reasons: 1) some solid supporting diplomatic gestures (f&f trades/favorite civic if it's even applicable) will balance out the war malus/vassal scaling; and 2) she's a pushover. After centuries of a cold war, I bought peace for Fishing, and proceeded to make many more trades with her before contacting anyone else.

I guess what I mean to say is, grab that worker so that you don't need to build your own, and calculate the best order for improving those tiles (here's a hint: skip Agriculture).

Also, there's no sense in waiting to declare war on her. Might as well do it on turn 1 to avoid the chance she stumbles into someone else and you pick up an additional malus from her friend.

 

[Shafi]

@TMIT: Wow! I never thought of that combination of options, but it sure makes sense for this game.

@Shafi: I used to have a lot of problems with crashes on my previous machine, all associated with messages about graphics space. Is that the kind of thing happening to you? Turning all graphic options to "low" helped, but didn't cure the problem.

yes. And your suggestion helped so i'm limping along, saving the game every 5 turns or so, but it's so aanoying ....

 

[dalamb]

You can edit civilization.ini to change to auto-save every turn; I did so when I started having crashes in xOTM games.

 

[CocoLoco]

This is a fun map! I've tried it 4-5 times with different strategies on Prince/Normal but I don't see how I can win it. So far the best I can do is get Astro around 200AD but by the time I sailed to England they had longbows (400AD) so I turned around and attacked America. After taking a few cities he got Longbows and Monty DOWed and started to send wave after wave of units at me. With only being able to build one unit per turn I'm not going to be able to hold the American cities.

So, It seems that the like getting Astro a lot eariler than the AIs get Longbows is the key.

Can anyone get Astro is the BCs?

Or when is a reasonable to expect to get Astro?

The other major decision is to go for the mids or just stay in Monarchy?
I did detour to pick up the Great Library. So maybe if I didn't do those two things I could get Astro in the BCs?

 

[michmbk]

With early Astro and a beeline to cannons, none of the European AIs can stop you pre-rifles...they don't have enough cities. That's my approach in my game on immortal/epic. I'm 15 turns from cannons, and hardly anyone has gunpowder yet, so steel/upgrade trebs/attack Europe w/cannons/muskets is the plan.

That's the key. With your production power in that city, you should be able to mass a treb army pre-steel and quickly attack. Take over Europe and then you should have enough of an empire to compete with Cathy/Qin/Monty...

 

[KeloGBites]

Up to 1280 ad. A bit of a weak game for me, didn't capitalize my early game advantage enough. So far I've taken Spain out and moving on Caesar now. Once he's out of the way, France->Germany. Elizabeth ended up a monster in my game, her teching is far ahead of everyone else except me, which she is on par with. Surprisingly, Asoka is a major player in this game. Fortunately, Qin/Cathy/Asoka are in a 3 way war so that is controlling them somewhat, fun game though.

 

[ungy]

up to 1330:

Spoiler :

after taking Spain before 1000 I move on and take France and England and some nice wonders. that leaves me with 8 cities. It's a walkover so I'm losing interest here

 

[KeloGBites]

Once you get a good foothold it becomes cake, a certain island above France is becoming a nuisance with it's load of frigates though >:S

 

[CynicalMagician]

Really? That sucks. I was under the impression that only HoF barred it for some gauntlets.

If it was patched out it was stupid IMO. If you wanted city razing, you wouldn't have clicked that OPTIONAL setting, and it's not like it mattered either way in terms of your own city, since losing it is an instant loss in OCC no matter what the AI does with it.

I hope this isn't true. I was already somewhat annoyed at the idiocy over breaking overflow AGAIN while ignoring unit order glitches and a faulty GUI. If they deliberately pulled an optional game setting over an "exploitative" argument then they clearly need a ton of work on patching priority, because that pushes 3.19 closer to being a disgrace.

It's definitely patched as kossin says, happened in 3.13. Weak.

 

[Calouste]

Gave this a couple of tries yesterday:

Spoiler :

Would definitely be a lot easier on marathon. You get so much production that you can pump out one unit per turn regardless of the speed. Ideally you'd like to slingshot Civil Service from the Oracle, but I'm not sure whether that is viable on higher difficulties.

 

[WFU03]

Have tried this several times on Immortal/normal with the additional challenge. So far, I can't seem to get a foothold early enough and/or I can't mass units fast enough to take out enough cities before everyone catches up to me in tech. I've basically wonderwhored at the beginning and then attempted to build an army as I get closer to astro.

The few times I have played it, I have tried a few different strategies on who to attack:
1. Take out England first.
Why? The culture won't overwhelm you and you can actually get a few productive cities out of it.

2. Take out Spain first.
Isabella will only have one city and it shouldn't be that hard to take. The problem is, she has usually vasallized to someone by then and you're starting more than one war with a limited number of units. Most likely, macemen and trebs.

3. Take out Roosevelt/Monty first. Because they are more backwards in tech, it's easier to take the first few cities. Because they are huge, however, it's much more likely that you will have a hard time fending off wave after wave. Also, if you attack here first, because of the no settler rule, you will have a lot of unfilled land even if you take it over.

On my current game (which looks destined for a loss), I took England and then went after Hatty because the rest of the world didn't seem to like her that much. I was trying to avoid a mass pile-on from the mostly muslim community of the old world. I'm up to 9 cities, but it's 1670 AD. I have founded Sid's and Mining Inc, but Qin has 24 and 4 vassals, Cathy has 18 and 2 vassals, and Roosevelt (yes, seriously) has 21 and has vassalized Monty and HC.

 

[CocoLoco]

I have also tried the same strategies as WFU03 but after each loss I backed the difficulty down. I picked up from these forums that the key was getting Astro as early as possible and invading before the AI had Longbows. I was eventually successful a couple of times but the key was not only getting Astro by 100-200AD but also having 3-4 galleys built, that I upgrade instantly to galleons, and fill them up with a premade army. So building that army is more important that collecting all the wonders. I even skipped mids since you will have tons of units in the capital and don't get any religions or switch to a religion till you know what is going on in Europe.

I went after the UK since it is isolated and you can regroup after capturing it. If you get the GA from Music settle him in London to prevent culture flip. Then start the conquest of Europe but don't accept vassals unless they only have one city. Fredrick offered to vassalize to me and he still had most of his cities and after a few turns Paris revolted too him! Of course picking a religion is also very important and staying ahead in tech.

Taking Spain first also worked. Maybe the decision should be based on the religious blocks in Europe at the time. Going after America first didn't seem to work since Monty had so many units. Maybe I'll try going after Monty first next time.

 

[WFU03]

Were you able to do it on anything close to Immortal difficulty?

 

[UWHabs]

I have also tried the same strategies as WFU03 but after each loss I backed the difficulty down. I picked up from these forums that the key was getting Astro as early as possible and invading before the AI had Longbows. I was eventually successful a couple of times but the key was not only getting Astro by 100-200AD but also having 3-4 galleys built, that I upgrade instantly to galleons, and fill them up with a premade army. So building that army is more important that collecting all the wonders. I even skipped mids since you will have tons of units in the capital and don't get any religions or switch to a religion till you know what is going on in Europe.

I went after the UK since it is isolated and you can regroup after capturing it. If you get the GA from Music settle him in London to prevent culture flip. Then start the conquest of Europe but don't accept vassals unless they only have one city. Fredrick offered to vassalize to me and he still had most of his cities and after a few turns Paris revolted too him! Of course picking a religion is also very important and staying ahead in tech.

Taking Spain first also worked. Maybe the decision should be based on the religious blocks in Europe at the time. Going after America first didn't seem to work since Monty had so many units. Maybe I'll try going after Monty first next time.

Hmm, yeah, that probably makes more sense. In my attempts (not even at Immortal), I played it more as a OCC type game, so settling everything. I guess if I bulbed my way to Liberalism/Astronomy, and went to conquer Europe (heck, or even just to go settle and cottage up the Amazon), that would probably work better. My tries I was right up close in tech until I met everyone, when everyone else just pulled away too much from me.

 

[CocoLoco]

Were you able to do it on anything close to Immortal difficulty?

I backed all the way down to Nobel before I could win. I then tried Prince and Monarch with good results. By doing this I noticed the main difference being the AI producing and keeping as city defenders more units so I building to keep up became critical. The higher levels convinced me that the UK is the way to go ( for a safe base) and keep taking cities for production. I'm on Emperor right now and in this came the TofA was built on turn 42/500. Ouch, so soon!

 

[CocoLoco]

I guess if I bulbed my way to Liberalism/Astronomy,

I think the faster way to get Astro was pointed out in a previous thread and involves not using Liberalism. If you don't get any Religions and a few other techs a GS can bulb Astro. I thought It was a great strategy and highly recommend it in this game. I found it by searching for stategies for any early blub of Astro.

 

[dalamb]

I stopped playing at the time I was trying to build an invading army (at Noble). I realized I'd built too many wonders. I did figure out that I was going to need a "safe haven" for landing troops and some way to overcome the production advantage most AIs would have. I was thinking of tackling Monty with Roosevelt's territory as "(relatively) safe haven": rather than build a huge fleet to invade Monty directly, build a few galleons and stage troops into Roosevelt's territory. I figured I might not be able to keep more than one or two of Monty's cities and would have to raze the rest or gift them to Roosevelt because of my inability to build defenders quickly.

I really don't know if this plan would have worked, but I suspect I'd waited too long and Monty was too far ahead.

If I redo the game I'll probably aim for Astronomy earlier, as some people suggested.