Immortal Saladin

[Dubioza]

Hi!

Wow, I wasn't here in a while! How are you guys doing? Still playing? I didn't honestly, for a long while...recently I saw another AZ's upload, which made me start up civ again and I got a start worth sharing. It will probably be too easy for most, but since I don't play that much, I think it will be a good way to re-learn some basics. This one looks like my favorite, bureau capital strategy.

I hope the setup is still the same as it was years ago when I still played regularly. If it's not, let me know.
BtS 3.19, BUG 4.4 (in custom assets), BULL 1.2

 

[Dubioza]

Reserved for updates.

Spoiler MAP INFO :

Pangaea, Standard, Normal, NHNE, Low sealevel, +1 AI, random civ&AI's, all vic's enabled, no edits

 

[Fippy]

Nice start, might be worth moving on marble with scout and if nothing new SIP

 

[lymond]

Unfortunately, Herr Sal doesn't have a scout, lady But marble still an interesting move. Faster start, and it looks like 1E of gold still makes for a pretty good bureau cap, although possibly without food. Possible resource 1NE of marble too.

Warrior 1NW seems good move to me..see if any seafood would be orphaned. Can't go wrong with SIP though..great city. Settle on marble would be a pro move though.

 

[Fippy]

Oops

I would say moving on marble is not worth doing here without scouting before.
Already standing on a ph, and with gold in reach, makes SIP better imo.
Sal has often annoying starting techs, would not want to delay gold.

 

[Dubioza]

OK, I don't have as much time as I thought I would, and it seems I'm a bit rustier than I thought so it takes me a while to end turns...again
But, I managed to play until 1000 BC

In short,

SiP, worker - warrior - warrior until size 3 - settler - 2xchop (worker steal) - OF into 2nd settler - finished warrior - finished settler - 2xarcher - granary (2pop whip).....while teching Agri - Mining - BW - Hun - Arch - Mas - Pott.

Settled SW T33, settled E T41, teched Poly - PHood (T56), (2pop whipped all granaries), settled S T59, teched Writing (T61), slider on 0 on Alpha, Oracled CoL (T63) - 1 chop & 2pop whipped settler into Oracle.

Finished 3xLibraries (T72-73 (2pop whipped)), started working specs in Damascus and teching Aesthetics T73 with 285 gold in the bank.

 

[Dubioza]

Played to 250 BC

T80 Aesth, Alpha on 0 slider
T81 settled N (corn & marble & gems)
T86 settled Copper
T90 traded Aesth for Alpha (Asoka), Writ+Poly for AH+Fish (Surya), Writ for Med (Cathy)
T91 Poly+PHood for Sail (Nappy), Aesth for IW (Rosy)
T92 Academy, slider on 100 (Math) with 600 gold in bank
T94 settled W (corn & iron)
T95 Math - Lit
T96 traded Aesth for Mono (Cathy), switched to OR civic & Confu
T97 traded Aesth & Mono for Monarchy (Surya), finished Lit, started GLib in capital - Constr
T99 settled W crab (8th city)
T101 Constr - HbR, started whipping & chopping cats, few units I already had in the queue, some courthouses, roads toward Cathy
T103 finished HbR - Currency (~4turns on 70%), finished GLib.

*note screen 5-1, I wanted to settle desert tile 1SE of cow to overlap capital, but cow+iron seemed much better, so those tiles are now still not improved and will have to be worked by capital

 

[Dubioza]

Played to 300 AD

T106 Nappy DoW'd Asoka few turns earlier, and Rosy joined Asoka against Nappy
T108 finished Currency, Music on 0. Here I noticed Cathy had 11 cities (I had 8), so I started chopping & whipping frantically (but was still efficient with 2pop whips & OF)
T109 Cathy built SoZeus, sold Mono for 30+60 to Alex+Hammy, Lit to Asoka for 250, 100% slider on Music (5T)
T110 remembered to switch to HR, everyone except Cathy & Alex hindu, them 2 buddhist, me conf.
T113 DoW'd Cathy, Alex DoW'd Hammy somewhere here
T114 finished Music (on 20%), got GSci in capital, bulbed Philo, took 1 city, sold Lit 80+60+30, IW 30, started GAge with GArtist from Music, CS (~5T on 100% with 520 gold in bank)
T115 took 2nd city
T117 took SoZ city, went there asap to get rid of her copper
T119 finished CS, traded HbR+Lit for Cal (Surya), switched to Bureau, started Nat on 100% while in GAge
T121 traded Constr+CoL for MC (Asoka)
T122 sold CoL for 220 (Rosy)
T123 took St. Pet & Moscow, and because I didn't have better spots, I decided to make Moscow HE and SoZ city NE. So, that's why I decided to kill her completely to avoid revolt issues. I slowed down with unit production few turns earlier, but will pick it up again. I've built some CH's, missionaries...will whip forges into more cats, I'm almost out. Moving toward next 2 cities.
T127 Asoka asked me to DoW Nappy, so I did I have 840 gold in bank, Nat is 40% researched, will up the slider soon and probably chop Taj in Moscow.

 

[Dubioza]

To 580 AD

T128 razed whale city (empty, size 1), slider on 100% on Nat. Have 1 more GSci (forgot when I got him, he'll wait for Edu bulb)
T129 razed 2 iron mines, took Rostov, settled fish city
T131 she's still getting spears grrr, razed Yakutsk
T132 traded CS+Phil+Mus for Feud+Mach (Rosy), sold Mus 300+130 (Asoka+Hammy)
T134 finished Nat - Paper
T136 finished Paper, hindu AP (Rosy), took Rostov (ivory city), bulbed Edu (3T left on 100%, not enough gold), got map, sold maps. Looks like I'm not getting rid of her metal...on positive note, looks like she was busy taking barb cities while I was attacking her
T137 Cathy got Feud, I peaced out Nappy (got some cash)
T138 whipped forge in Moscow and preparing chops for Taj, and whipped library in Novgorod for NE. Still thinking where to put HE, maybe crab spot (Moai+HE combo, just whipped forge) or Moscow, I whipped St. Pet too much for it. Slider on 0 just short of Edu ran out of gold.
T139 started Taj, started NE, moved toward Lybian.

 

[Dubioza]

To 800 AD

T140 Rosy peaced out Nappy few turns earlier and redeclared this turn, I took Libyan. Sold CoL (80+30, Nappy+Hammy), Edu on 50%
T141 Finished Edu, Lib on 0%, kept blocking Asoka from going to Lib by not trading Philo...actually by not trading anything important to him
T142 finished NE
T143 met Cathy's only WE, killed him & few units outside of cities
T144 took Mauryan, keept spreading my religion in all cities and more different religions in capital
T145 Surya took Alex' city (he declared few turns earlier)
T146 GAge from Taj, AP vote to stop trading with Cathy, she settles another city. Decided to raze both, I have 18 now. Lib on 100% (~5T)
Building wealth in cities that are set up (Granary, Forge, CH, Barrack, Stable), OF is kept for later. Working Specs in capitol, Damascus & NE
T147 started HE in Moscow
T148 finally traded Philo to Asoka for Theo+180, Lib on 70%
T149 Last city fell, she moved some units out. Didn't even kill them, just razed the city. 800 year war finally finished.
Switched to Pacifism, 3 cities are close to producing GP.
T150 1T from Lib (on 60%), I'll Lib MT and research GPowder next to get Cuirs. I have 4 cats left (I know it's not much), but that makes me think I'll attack Hammy even before Cuirs, since my units are on this side of the world.
Finally, war is over! Wow, I lost lots of cats! Those spears man, they just kept comming...I stopped building units too soon, ~200AD and picked it up again ~350AD. Could've been done sooner and easier, this war..

 

[Dubioza]

To 1000 AD

T151 Asoka peacevassaled Rosy, Surya still at war with Alex. Rosy asks to dow Nappy and Surya to dow Alex. I refuse both, don't want to speed up Surya's vassalization of Alex, he's kicking his butt. Lib MT, GPowder in 5T on 60% with 600 gold and some change per turn. Got GS in Damascus. Alex took his city back and razed it?
T152 Asoka asks me to dow Nappy. Rufused. All but 1 city have religion.
T154 I dow'd Hammy
T155 got another GS in capital, took 1 city
T156 got GPowder, have 800 gold. Rosy started on MT and tried for diplo victory. I have only 2 cities with hindu. Bulbed PPress (70%, slider on 0). Switched to Theo.
T157 DipVicFailed Capitulated Hammy. So, my units on one side of the map, while I should go after Rosy to prevent DipVic.
Started gathering new units (Cuirs) W, next to Asoka & Rosy, units in E go toward Alex.
T158 Surya vassaleed Alex, got GArtist in NE, started GAge, PPress in 2T on 50%. Working specs only in NE, want GMerchant.
T159 Surya DoW'd Rosy. I think dip vic might be out of the question
T160 got PPress, Guilds on 0. Cuirs everywhere, whipped where possible even if in GAge. Last turn of Theo, I think. Will upgrade some WE's and go for Alex+Surya probably, since I'm here already.

Yeah, I missed it On T159, when Surya DoW'd Rosy - that was because he vassaled Nappy. So, looks like I'll go after 3 of them o.O

 

[Dubioza]

Update to T167

T160 upgraded 7 WE's to Cuirs.
T161 switched to Pacifism, only NE going for GP. DoW'd Surya+Alex+Nappy and went for Corinth. Took Gepid (W).
T162 got to Corinth. Glad I still have some cats! Chopped all forests in and around my culture, most of improvements are done, will delete some workers soon.
T163 took Corinth, upgraded few more WE's.
T164 traded Nat for Eng+Comp+150 (Asoka), moved with cats toward hilled Thebes
T165 Surya killed my cats, but got punished on flatlands. Pushing up from W aswell.
T166 finishing last units, have almost 50 Cuirs. Still whipping with full OF, so I might OF into few Markets. Another try for DipVic by Rosy. Took flatland city on W side next to Surya's capital. Switched back to OR.
T167 DipVicFailed2, killed another Surya's stack on flatlands.

 

[Dubioza]

Update to T180

T168 Athens and Thebes fell. Have to wait 3T to switch civics. Rep happiness would help.
T169 Surya's capital and Sparta fell. Got GArtist. Last GP. Oh well. Alex on 2 cities, Surya in knockdown, decided to move western stack to Nappy.
T170 stopped building units, used OF leftovers to build some Markets, probably too late for that.
T171 Surya&co peaced out Rosy. Rosy free.
T172 Hammy finished Guilds for me, while I was saving gold to run to Econ for GM. traded him Pap+Eng for it. Slider on 100% on Banking. Switch to Rep. Lyons and another Surya's city fell. Still no capitulation or braking of vassals.
T173 Surya is down to 4, Alex 2, Nappy 6 cities. Still no end to war.
T174 Banking - Econ. Surya&co peaced out Asoka. Took another Surya's sity. Should be close now. Right?
T175 pushed to Paris.
T176 lost Lyons, took it back. Got GM from Econ. Will go to Wash for 1700 (ToA in Delhi 1500). Still have 1300 gold, I'm going to RParts-Rifling. Pushing North, I guess.
T177 Asoka peacevassaled Rosy again. Took 1 more city.
T178 Alex finally broke free, but is affraid of my enemies. Took his city
T179 Finally! Nappy broke free, I vassaled him. Then Surya. Then Alex. OB, gived all cities back, moved toward Asoka & Rosy. Sold PPress to Asoka for 420, got TMission. Remembered to switch to FMarket. And to FreeRel, just because.
T180 RParts finished, Rifling next. 3T with all cities building research. 2500 gold in bank.

 

[Dubioza]

T180 sold Edu to Rosy for 350 before declaring.
T181 To wait for Cavs or not? I moved that stack S toward my territoy, DoW'd and went into Rosy's territory with 2nd stack.
T182 killed lots of units
T183 finished Rifling, took Boston & Pataliputra, bulbed Astro with almost forgotten GArtist. Upgraded ~20 units to Cavs.
T184 Asoka gave up. That made Rosy give up.
T185 Conquest Victory.

Apologies for not the greatest write-up ever, often forgot to take screenshots or what I was doing. Didn't have as much time to do a super detailed one. Any insights, questions, comments...everything's welcome.

I guess my main question is, would it be better to vassalize Cathy (possible after I took Moscow - if I went for Feud) or to just stay happy with what I had (+Gepid, the barb city) until Cuirs?

 

[gramm87]

Good job, seeing you've been at war for the entire game, I should probably try to be more offensive...

 

[Dubioza]

I know. I didn't want to wreck my economy. At one point, around 150-200 AD I had income of +4 gold while on 0 slider. That's why I eased up on building units. Otoh, if I've built more of them sooner, I could've conquer more sooner. CoL came to early for me, seing CH's I couldn't resist building them. But I didn't even get to build Barracks even before that, I was busy making units to start war swith Cathy asap - I thought more units better than less units with promotion. WE's won most of fights, promoted cats wouldn't make much of a difference - in every city were 2 archers, 2 spears, somewhere swords; and archers were defending against cats. More colateral wouldn't do much I think, 2x cat-attack damaged spears from 4 to 3.1 (I think) and with promotion would be 2.9? 3.0? Lots of cities were on the hill, so I had to spend more cats than I thought I would...