[BTS] Immortal shadow game - Peter of Russia
- Thread starter Veshunio
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BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Yes, it's a good spot. I actually didn't consider it (somehow missed your post in the first page). Easy to improve, same shared floodplains, single road for connexion. Maybe better than my proposition. Long-term GP farm.
I liked the wheat for building workers and as a relay towards the west.
I liked the wheat for building workers and as a relay towards the west.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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Okay 
Can still do both tbh, farm is useful for all cities.
City marked as #2 has another floodplain sw of pigs, righto? Forgot checking.
Very nice spot with good potential later too, i think it's useful to share pigs early when Moscow builds a settler or worker.
Can still do both tbh, farm is useful for all cities.
City marked as #2 has another floodplain sw of pigs, righto? Forgot checking.
Very nice spot with good potential later too, i think it's useful to share pigs early when Moscow builds a settler or worker.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
No, I didn't have a master plan. I only saw double fish with fishes 2nd ring. The western spot claiming stone in 2nd ring has some appeal (city 3 - a must city), some hills and forests but...
Fippy's spot is good. Makes researching Agriculture kind of a waste but that's... well that's on me.
I don't have a strong opinion on city 2 as it stands. Going Workboat first in city 2 isn't very productive but the city is great indeed. I dunno. I'm not sure settling the wheat is much worse either. You lose a long term GP farm. Get an easier time producing workers.
I dunno. Probably the long term plan is better. Settling the wheat 1N kills the GP farm. There are enough city spots available that having a dedicated GP farm is certainly worthwhile.
Sorry for being a confusionist
Fippy's spot is good. Makes researching Agriculture kind of a waste but that's... well that's on me.
I don't have a strong opinion on city 2 as it stands. Going Workboat first in city 2 isn't very productive but the city is great indeed. I dunno. I'm not sure settling the wheat is much worse either. You lose a long term GP farm. Get an easier time producing workers.
I dunno. Probably the long term plan is better. Settling the wheat 1N kills the GP farm. There are enough city spots available that having a dedicated GP farm is certainly worthwhile.
Sorry for being a confusionist
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Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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There are a couple interesting thoughts that i had with the fish city.
First i usually look at commerce - production ratio, here Moscow has great early hammers for settlers & workers while commerce is a bit low.
Even unimproved while lacking BW, fish city has some commerce on all tiles with fish being okay early at 2fc.
Main building wanted there would be a library (can skip monuments imo, with good food and cheap granaries libraries are well in reach for cities, teching myst hurts anyways if we want so much else), which will also culture the second fish for another city 3N1W of Moscow later.
When settled earlier, there will be more pop for that library whip.
I think there's some good synergy in this area.
First i usually look at commerce - production ratio, here Moscow has great early hammers for settlers & workers while commerce is a bit low.
Even unimproved while lacking BW, fish city has some commerce on all tiles with fish being okay early at 2fc.
Main building wanted there would be a library (can skip monuments imo, with good food and cheap granaries libraries are well in reach for cities, teching myst hurts anyways if we want so much else), which will also culture the second fish for another city 3N1W of Moscow later.
When settled earlier, there will be more pop for that library whip.
I think there's some good synergy in this area.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Yes, wheat city, indeed, doesn't add any commerce at all, since it wants to run a forest at size 2.
Fish city, otoh, runs 3C at size 2 with fish + floodplains.
Agreed on infrastructure.
A border pop in Fish city could also allow to claim the stone first ring. Do you have your eyes on the stone, Fippy ? Need more scouting, maybe ?
Fish city, otoh, runs 3C at size 2 with fish + floodplains.
Agreed on infrastructure.
A border pop in Fish city could also allow to claim the stone first ring. Do you have your eyes on the stone, Fippy ? Need more scouting, maybe ?
We are 6 turns from fishing and have no bronze working. This will take forever and a day to get that workboat. 30 turns if we work flood plains. 15t if we work a hammer tile. In mean time we want pottery and writing long term.
The forest hill site would get workboat in 6 turns. Overall we have played out for the wheat site. If wanted the double fish we should of skipped agriculture and maybe wheel too.
However Fippy is right to suggest double fish can work a lot of commerce tiles. Which could help speed up science a bit. Long term double fish is the better site.
Wheat site could of run 2 flood plains for commerce..It just lacks the fish commerce.
In terms of worker use. Not having pottery would limit worker. Biggest risk for me is being blocked in by a nearby AI here. Shame the OP lost his scout so early on.
The forest hill site would get workboat in 6 turns. Overall we have played out for the wheat site. If wanted the double fish we should of skipped agriculture and maybe wheel too.
However Fippy is right to suggest double fish can work a lot of commerce tiles. Which could help speed up science a bit. Long term double fish is the better site.
Wheat site could of run 2 flood plains for commerce..It just lacks the fish commerce.
In terms of worker use. Not having pottery would limit worker. Biggest risk for me is being blocked in by a nearby AI here. Shame the OP lost his scout so early on.
Fippy
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Yup it's true, many techs wanted and different paths possible.
Teching Agri made wheat city a strong competition for fish city.
Desert stone would be quiet some time away from being improved, but Pyras are the top wonder here with no happy resis..
good question, on deity i would say no way but on Immortal who knows.
Teching Agri made wheat city a strong competition for fish city.
Desert stone would be quiet some time away from being improved, but Pyras are the top wonder here with no happy resis..
good question, on deity i would say no way but on Immortal who knows.
1000bc for mids is normal guide. What about a city 3W of the fish site? If a settler followed quickly it could build a workboat much quicker and would have stone on inner ring.
Of course you could just settle on the stone. I wonder if the tile 2N1W of the must city could be a resource? Copper or something else? Surrounded by hills and forest. This usually a good inidcator for a resource. If that was copper it would make a stone city more viable. With option to share fish.
Still need masonry for stone. Yet another tech to distract us. I think a clear strategy is needed here. You can't simply tech everything. Monarchy or mids is answer to happiness. That or trade for resources with AI. This is never a sure thing. Moscow has limited production. The stone city has a lot of forest to chop.
Oracle would mean more techs to distract and a later after thought at this date. Certainly an interesting start this.
Of course you could just settle on the stone. I wonder if the tile 2N1W of the must city could be a resource? Copper or something else? Surrounded by hills and forest. This usually a good inidcator for a resource. If that was copper it would make a stone city more viable. With option to share fish.
Still need masonry for stone. Yet another tech to distract us. I think a clear strategy is needed here. You can't simply tech everything. Monarchy or mids is answer to happiness. That or trade for resources with AI. This is never a sure thing. Moscow has limited production. The stone city has a lot of forest to chop.
Oracle would mean more techs to distract and a later after thought at this date. Certainly an interesting start this.
Hello friends!
Sorry for the pause, I've had holidays for a week but now I'm back.
Once again thanks for your contribution! I like the idea of going for the spot Fippy suggested(4W from cap), followed by 3W from this spot. I decided not to do it though (possibly I'll make a simulation of actually doing this to compare the long-term difference), because I believe in this case it wouldn't be the best play. Such city would be unable to do anything productive for long time. And tech status is at top mediocre. Maybe I just got fixed on the benefits of settling dry wheat and exploting the EXP trait.
It would be possible to make a GP farm out of Moscow though. its possible to have 10 surplus food if I leave the farm on FP. But I can imagine that keeping massive population for both working towns AND spawning GPs could be very very hard. I will have at least 6 surplus resources for a potential trade though.
I started to consider moving the cap. City number 3 could be a potential candidate, but it won't have any neighbour cities to help it grow towns. And around the Moscow there's gonna be an ideal helper-cities ring.
About the GP - city number 2 seems to be quite good for this. First as a helper to grow cottage and whipping stuff, putting overflow into Moai, then just get pigs forever, after Moscow has already grown.
Thats for the theory.
Now update:
I've played whole 2 turns since last update. Here are the changes:
Sooooo.. I settled the wheat, started to build a warrior, not much of a choice out there.
The city is gonna get online in 5 turns and then its ready to spam workers. I think to use its forests to chop a library and get first GS there, while growing towns for Moscow in the future.
Moscow finished next warrior and started the next one. Both second warrior and pop 4 will trigger next turn.
I moved the warrior in the direction of the MUST city, but as you can see, some uninvited guests appeared. I'm a bit surprised, it is super-fast for me(especially the barb city), therefore I'm glad that I decided to get next warrior.
Still I find these circumstances quite hard, because I'm afraid that it will be very hard to defend with just rookie warriors and not lose the cow pasture. That would be a disaster. I'll be very helpful for any defence tips here.
There is a chance that he will move away for a while, but even in a forest, a warrior will have high chance to get killed.
What would you do?
Sorry for the pause, I've had holidays for a week but now I'm back.
Once again thanks for your contribution! I like the idea of going for the spot Fippy suggested(4W from cap), followed by 3W from this spot. I decided not to do it though (possibly I'll make a simulation of actually doing this to compare the long-term difference), because I believe in this case it wouldn't be the best play. Such city would be unable to do anything productive for long time. And tech status is at top mediocre. Maybe I just got fixed on the benefits of settling dry wheat and exploting the EXP trait.
It would be possible to make a GP farm out of Moscow though. its possible to have 10 surplus food if I leave the farm on FP. But I can imagine that keeping massive population for both working towns AND spawning GPs could be very very hard. I will have at least 6 surplus resources for a potential trade though.
I started to consider moving the cap. City number 3 could be a potential candidate, but it won't have any neighbour cities to help it grow towns. And around the Moscow there's gonna be an ideal helper-cities ring.
About the GP - city number 2 seems to be quite good for this. First as a helper to grow cottage and whipping stuff, putting overflow into Moai, then just get pigs forever, after Moscow has already grown.
Thats for the theory.
Now update:
I've played whole 2 turns since last update. Here are the changes:
Spoiler :
Sooooo.. I settled the wheat, started to build a warrior, not much of a choice out there.
The city is gonna get online in 5 turns and then its ready to spam workers. I think to use its forests to chop a library and get first GS there, while growing towns for Moscow in the future.
Moscow finished next warrior and started the next one. Both second warrior and pop 4 will trigger next turn.
I moved the warrior in the direction of the MUST city, but as you can see, some uninvited guests appeared. I'm a bit surprised, it is super-fast for me(especially the barb city), therefore I'm glad that I decided to get next warrior.
Still I find these circumstances quite hard, because I'm afraid that it will be very hard to defend with just rookie warriors and not lose the cow pasture. That would be a disaster. I'll be very helpful for any defence tips here.
There is a chance that he will move away for a while, but even in a forest, a warrior will have high chance to get killed.
What would you do?
