Immortal University 93 - Louis XIV

[GKey]

So negative about settling where warrior stands cuz "you burn riverside grassland!" but ready to burn riverside grassland cow? More green riverside in cap is cool at cost of 1 turn loss, but not at the cost of 42 tile IMO.

Given you got -2 tile that have to be worked all the time, you will need all the food you can get. I would settle where warrior stands after moving him SE, definitely not settle on the cow.

The only concern is unforested tile 1N2W of the settler.

Edit: After looking closer there is no unforested tile. So there is no any concern at all.

 

[Tempesta13]

Start to 1 AD

Spoiler :

Settled in place and teched AH>Mining>BW>Pottery>Writing

Hatty is so close and boxed in so she's a likely target. She traps my worker while grabbing some horses. Good thing she is creative so that guy can go back to exploring in 5 turns.

Cathy is grabbing the North, and Hatty will surely build lots of War Chariots so I decide a HA rush (rather than Axemen) on Hatty would work best. The gold helps get Horseback Riding no problem. I settle cities 2, 3, and 4 and tech Horseback Riding>Hunting>Archery>Masonry>Aesthetics

Declare on Hatty around 800 BC.
750 BC Getting ready to trade Aesthetics to Cathy for Alpha. Then I'll be able to pick up Monarchy/Iron Working and maybe Math.

400 BC: Hatty bribes Cathy in. I make peace with Hatty (she is down to 2 cities) and fight off Cathy's attack - it isn't much. I probably could have finished Hatty off sooner. I kill a couple of her troops and raze a city and she pays me for peace.

Currency and Code of Laws are in (other continent got CoL first at 525 BC). Will either go Civil Service/Music or Drama from here.

Failed late Pyramids attempt helps with fail gold. Now Orleans is now trying to build Parthenon. Great Library is going in Thebes and Moai Statues and then Heroic Epic will go in Heliopolis.

Here is tech:

1 AD to 880 AD

Spoiler :

125 AD Great Library built - followed with National Epic
Hindu religious block helps out
Attack Hatty again and finish her off in 525 AD
Got a great Artist and burned him for a GA when Civil Service came in - helped get to Lib and save 1 turn Anarchy with Civil Service swap. Kinda wished I saved him to help build Taj though...
880 AD Liberalism>Nationalism. Getting 6 Universities built so I can put Oxford in cap.

880 AD to 1550 domination victory

Spoiler :

Used Merchant to help upgrade HAs to Cuirs (lots have 10+ xp) and attack Cathy in 1190 AD

1200 AD: take out her stack and it's easy from there

Take Moscow and JC capitulates her - looks like I can just tech Rifling and get domination with just this continent. JC isn't close to Rifles.

1370 AD Finish off Cathy

1490 AD take ROme and capitulate JC

1550 AD: Attack Hammy - out of everyone he's the guy that won't cap???? Took a few cities and ran 100% culture for 1 turn and got the 64%. I think overall I just had to kill 1 Riflemen from Hammy.

 

[Fippy]

i haven't posted here in a while, but I'll make my comeback by saying

SETTLE ON THE COW

Very smart move, researching animals not tempting with so many forests (mining + BW needed) and with Ind leader who wants masonry and so first probably, with gold also Oracle techs tempting.

 

[GKey]

Backfill AH with alphabet as we used to. Can be farmed meanwhile for 41.

 

[Tempesta13]

I settled in place and teched AH>Mining>BW. The timing works out fine (at least as far as I'm concerned) due to the gold. Without that gold I would definitely consider skipping AH here. That gold really makes the opening very flexible. I didn't go for Oracle, but if someone had that in mind I'd say skip AH.

 

[CanadaStevens]

see its things like 'settling on the cow' that just never, never, never ever would have occurred to me without this university course (is that what you call it?). That concept is just totally antithetical to everything I've ever believed about this game (IE that food resources are crucial tiles to work)... and yet apparently people believe it so maybe I should think about it.

Is it just cows that should be settled on... or are there also times I should settle on corn and bananas and fish too?

Anyways about this game... well I found out the hard way that vassalisation is enabled and that's an option I disabled in my training long before Immortal difficulty mode. It really miffs me the way I can have a civilization on its knees and then they go and capitulate themselves to some 'pleased' friend of mine and suddenly we're at war. Ugggh.

But if the big players (that's you guys) think vassals are yummy i guess i'll try it. Anyways with hindsight on my side I think I'm going to start this game over and this time fight the whole war before feudalism comes into play.

 

[Izuul]

Immortal 1350 Conquest

Spoiler :

I'll post a summary tomorrow, too tired tonight. Here's the short version for now:

Spoiler :

 

[Keilah]

settle on the cow because:
+1 food right from the start is a big deal
takes forever to research AH, settling it gives you some of the bonus with none of the research cost
puts you on a river which can mean less worker turns wasted on roads
faster start = more cities = stronger long term game
the land looks a little nicer down there

Oh and, if you get the option it's usually good to settle on bananas or sugar for the +1 food without needing to wait thousands of years for calendar

 

[Fippy]

Cow not 4f2h if your other option is settling on them, but 3f2h.
Or rather 2.5f because 3f city tile is so good

Makes them look much less special already, and when your worker can get out 3 turns quicker, and your city grows faster, and your worker can mine and chop instead of improving (or worse farming) them..

Short term gains you could say, which are usually more important with how Civ works.

 

[GKey]

Settling on dry rice/banana/sugar is recommended sometimes because improving these tiles will net you only 1 or 2 very late. None of these tiles will become 6 yield one relatively early like cows.

 

[lymond]

Actually, settling on cow is only 1H...no H gain to center tile. Actually loss is 1F1H1C (1C being workable if settled elsewhere.

While I'd generally avoid settling on a grass cow if at all possible, it can be a good play like in this case, especially when you already have a strong food resource. The loss of 1F1H1C is made up by a faster start...and really I only view it mainly as a loss of 1F. Plus you get riverside and apparently more green and river tiles. (Having played some, I'm pretty sure I made the right choice settling on the cow)

 

[GKey]

Don't get me wrong, I am not against settling on resources in general, that can be best play in many cases. I just don't think it's best here.

Riverside grass cow once improved will become 421 tile. Settling on it will net you 1. Net loss is 321. That's already too much, still can be viable if we are very food reach. But this is not the case here. 1 wet corn is not that many food given we have a gold -2 tile, that need to be worked all the time.

Edit: correction, worked cow tile will net 221 counting -2 for citizen working it. Settling on it gain 1, so loss will be 121. Still working cow tile will compensate food loss from working gold.

 

[Fippy]

You are not really losing food, cos you could work any 3f farm instead
City tile adds the 4th food. No cow later means 2h/turn lost, or -2 food +1h if you work any green mine instead. For settlers/workers only 1 prod lost, if you have enough mines.

 

[Izuul]

You are not really losing food, cos you could work any 3f farm instead
City tile adds the 4th food. No cow later means 2h/turn lost, or -2 food +1h if you work any green mine instead. For settlers/workers only 1 prod lost, if you have enough mines.

Spoiler :

You wouldn't want to work a farm in your capitol with all of these riverside tiles though. This is a great bureau capitol location, so the more cottages the merrier.

I went with SIP and never really considered settling on the cow. I'm not saying I'm completely against it, but that's a pretty strong tile to cover up, and it blocks off a city location that i wanted to settle to the south. You can put a city or two in other spots to use the fish and rice (if egypt doesn't get the rice first), but i like this spot better for a helper city to grow cottages.

Anyway, i would settle on bananas, sugar, or dry rice in a heartbeat, but i would really have to do some math before settling on a 4-2-1 grass cow. 12T worker is nice and would allow you to get the gold mine online a few turns earlier, but that's about the only real benefit that i see. Long-term if you settle on cow + work a mine you lose 2 food which costs you one cottage. If you just work cottages, you lose a nice production tile. As pointed out somewhere above, the cow can even be farmed if you really don't want to mess with AH before Alpha.

I'm not completely against the idea, but i haven't seen a really compelling argument for it yet. And in this particular case, i don't like losing my desired helper city location by moving south.

 

[Patchface]

It is a worldbuilder save instead of normal save file. Was the start doctored?

 

[klonoklown]

^ not one bit, I stated in message #2 no edits were made

 

[Htadus]

Why? It's most definitely a resource and your just picking up more brown tiles vs. losing green tiles.

Yes and I am hoping it is copper for a 2 hammer city center. I do not have an issue with brown tiles when I have enough food to get to at least to size 15. I am sure i will have plenty of pop there and not suffer too much.

Settling on dry rice/banana/sugar is recommended sometimes because improving these tiles will net you only 1 or 2 very late. None of these tiles will become 6 yield one relatively early like cows.

Yes, I find it very interesting that anyone would want to waste a very early 7 yield tile, just to gain 1 extra food. It seem a weak choice.

I for 1 will make a extreamly weak 1f1h tile into a 2f1h1c city and hope for it to become a 2h city. I know it is not as good as a 3f1h1c city but I have a feeling it will all workout fine. Hope it is not horses.

 

[Smilingrogue]

I am not opposed to settling on a cow or any resource per-se. My question is based purely on what we see, why would we waste the cow? That cow with a pasture will prove to be an amazing complement for the gold mine, it will feed it and add hammers and one extra commerce when working the gold.

Will settling on it give a faster start? Sure! But the benefits of additional greenery and river and all that come far too late to matter. (How many turns before that city is working all its cottages?). It's not a 'bad' play. Just not an amazing play as far as I can see because the advantages are not worth the loss of the mid-short term benefits to me. But that's just me and I see both approaches worked well.

 

[Htadus]

I did not say it is a bad play, but it is a weak play to settle on that cow, Specially in this game since a nearby Ai started to supply workers very early on. I did not get my 2 hammer city center so far.

 

[vranasm]

that cow is highest yield tile in BFC - 7 yield, that wet corn is "only" 6 yield (not on river)

the only reasoning why settle on it if you plan not teching AH right away... which I have to admit can have some merit especially on Deity starts (and the number of trees all around).

farm on cow gets similar result as settling on it in this scenario and if you want to delay AH for first 50-60 turns I can see why you would settle on cows.

as a small bonus for settling cow here is that you move towards river and more green tiles.

if it was bananas on river we would have less discussion and the tile would be very obvious choice ;-).

One neat thing about settling on food resource (compared to settling PH) is that it brings worker sooner in both scenario, but the settle on food has benefit of growing your cap much quicker while kicking out couple of fogbusters and you will usually be bigger when finally starting to build s/w from cap (aka on normal start you start to build s/w on size 3, with settling on food the same number of turns will almost guarantee you start on size 4).