Immortal University 97 - Suleiman

[Izuul]

Building wealth on this map is pointless because production is so poor. I did it in 14 out of 14 cities. Before the loss was a little bit over 200 GPT. Now it is 120 GPT. No difference at all! After that I lost the purpose of the game and rage-quit.

You were going broke?

 

[rfcfanatic]

You were going broke?

No, my science slider was at 100%.

 

[gspchamp999]

175 BC

Spoiler :

Tech iirc: AH, Mining, Pottery, BW, Writing, Alpha, trade for IW, Currency, CoL

Academy in cap and just bulbed Philo. A couple more settlers to fill my land in to the South, exploring the North now, and whipping a Galley to expand to islands.

I do not know how I got Buddhism in one of my cities. Taoist monk is headed over to Paris. May not play on from here because there is too much land.

Spoiler :

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[blunderwonder]

i find myself trying to keep up with izuul in these forum games but i always fall short by a few hundred years lol, curious how you got MoM, it was gone quick in game, no marble, and I didnt get to calender even at 500 ad. Im thinking im going to start over anyway, just to see how different it is knowing i can get 10 cities no problem. Im not gonna change city placement but id like to see if i can get music this time, and expand slower. These maps where i can expand easily sort of baffle me, i also screwed up with trading as usual i got to all the people after they were already trading with eachother. Building workboats to look around always feels like a bad investment but maybe not. Also I may get alphabet earlier, and try for MoM, i sometimes try to get it when i have marble, and i dont mind the fail gold, but it is a pretty powerful wonder when your philo as well. The way your teching along you could probably go space faster than trying for domination anyway lol.

 

[Izuul]

Spoiler :

I went for calendar myself since there were dyes and silks and nobody else had it yet. I used the forests around the cap to chop some of the MoM. It took awhile to build but nobody else went for it. That and 900bc GLH (heh) are only wonders I've built since we have no marble or stone.

My tech path was weird in this game too. AI didn't go for Monarchy so I went for that and calendar and then drama after trading for aesthetics. I traded for CoL too which is something I usually tech myself.

I put bulbs into edu, astro, pp, and sci meth on the way to communism.

 

[blunderwonder]

well i just made a pot of coffee so im gonna give it another go plus it cooled down some which is nice cause it was a hot day. Im going to try a GLH game sooner or later, I might try it this game idk, ive captured it in games before but my cities dont really get big enough i think to make it a big game changer until i hit econ and corp anyway, so its like the benefits dont really stack up until they dont matter for me. Im gonna look into it, but ive never noticed more than 4 or 5 commerce in each city from GLH, and i realize thats a big enough reason to get it, but getting at 900 bc... thats so early, maybe ill give it a try this game, as i really was just building chariots for monarchy and research for alot of the time waiting for cottages. I dont think i teched all of monarchy but i did get like 1/2 way and then traded for it, so we'll see how this next attempt goes, ill probably have to go to 1000ad to see any real progress, the tech rate was so slow happiness was a big problem, i dindt realize until a bit too late how bad i was going to need monarchy, and i think currency was probably more important anyway, ill find a way to trade for it somehow earlier though

 

[Izuul]

Im going to try a GLH game sooner or later, I might try it this game idk, ive captured it in games before but my cities dont really get big enough i think to make it a big game changer until i hit econ and corp anyway, so its like the benefits dont really stack up until they dont matter for me. Im gonna look into it, but ive never noticed more than 4 or 5 commerce in each city from GLH, and i realize thats a big enough reason to get it, but getting at 900 bc... thats so early, maybe ill give it a try this game

Spoiler :

900bc is late to actually get it, but it's so powerful on a map like this that's it's worth taking a stab at (on Imm and below anyway). Large cities do provide more trade revenue, but your cities definitely don't have to be large to benefit from it. This city is essentially a fresh plant.

Spoiler :

The GLH is providing an additional 6 commerce right from the start which easily makes the city profitable.

 

[Skipity]

So I peacefully .. . .

Spoiler :

Settled 17 cities. Had space to settle like 8 more with overlap, but couldn't really support many more economically. Won Lib and took Military Tradition ~1170 (when ghandi starting teching Lib.



Then I won Economics a few turns later. The detour was important IMO: keeping your economy humming seemed to me more important than an earlier war with France.

As you can see, I'm still not building units.



Not Surprisingly, I failed to gt the taj. I guess 17 cites ain't enough to have marble, stone, or anyone who will trade either.

As you can see, I'm still not building units.

What?!!? You invaded with that pidling force to start?





Well, yeah.. France was at war with Lincoln.

And JUST got Civil service a few turns earlier:



The whip is now cracking out Calvalry. France doesn't have a chance . . .

The saves:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/civ4skipity/IU+97+-+Suleiman+AD-1190.CivBeyondSwordSave
https://s3.amazonaws.com/civ4skipity/IU+97+-+Suleiman+AD-1350.CivBeyondSwordSave
https://s3.amazonaws.com/civ4skipity/IU+97+-+Suleiman+AD-1505.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Skipity]

Spoiler :

And TOTALLY agree on TGL if I had any knowledge of the map beforehand. I had no that 17 cities in 1100 would make me only the third largest civ.

 

[Skipity]

Spoiler :

The economic key to this map is early cottaging, courthouses EVERYWHERE, and trading your bazillion resources for gold to the AIs.

TGL would have worked too if you knew beforehand the size and scope of the map.

Begging for Gold helps too, but I found the AIs surprisingly stingy considering how much they liked me.

Building wealth? Not enough hammers. It's Law and Order or starve.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@Skipity:

Spoiler :

Regarding the Great Lighthouse: not sure if it's very easy to build, here (didn't playa and people say hammers are lacking), but it should be possible to recognize the wonder is desirable very early in the game:
1- Map type: Big & Small. That is a strong indicator that the GLH can be extremely strong. Info is available on t0.
2- Peninsula shape: scouting would reveal coast to the east and west very early: potential for many coastal cities. Info available on t10-20?
3- Possibly, scouting islands. That really tips the balance in favour of the GLH. Info of t30?

1&2 should be enough to recognize the map is favourable for the GLH. No need for pre-play map knowledge: reading the map it is.
3 is sheer bonus. After that, there still remains to find a suitable spot to build it. Spot which may be lacking, apparently.

3: there are islands that can be scouted relatively early! Small thing that lacks in your game is the settling of those islands. Remember that foreign trade routes are limited to 1 per city. Internal trade routes are not limited in any manner (so an offshore city of yours can provide an overseas trade route to all of your cities).
Settling island cities can add up to quite a lot of commerce.
(Yeah, sure, it's annoying, need to build a galley and all but... is it really that big of a deal?)
(Note that island cities are much more annoying to capture late-game than to settle early. So, if one's gotta choose...)

Finally, as Lymond mentionned, scouting to meet AIs is a good thing. Helps make informed decisions.

 

[Izuul]

Spoiler :

The economic key to this map is early cottaging, courthouses EVERYWHERE, and trading your bazillion resources for gold to the AIs.

TGL would have worked too if you knew beforehand the size and scope of the map.

Begging for Gold helps too, but I found the AIs surprisingly stingy considering how much they liked me.

Building wealth? Not enough hammers. It's Law and Order or starve.

Spoiler :

Just the map settings were enough to make me really want the GLH. Numerous landmasses + islands always screams GLH. You really don't need gobs of cities to make it a good investment, and if you plan to war at all you know you will end up with more later.

I definitely agree on resource trades as I'm making quite a bit of gpt off of those and have been for much of the game, but i think I've only built 2 courthouses, and now that I'm about to switch into SP, i likely will not build another this game.

The largest amount of maintenance I'm paying in any city right now is 7.4g and about 40% of that will be gone in 3 turns. Most of my cities are around 5g which is still below the threshold of where i usually start whipping CHs. Granted i have 12 cities (13 in a few turns) and not 17 cities, but i haven't found the maintenance to be too much of a killer. 120 hammers is a pretty large investment unless you can 3-4 pop whip them in larger cities. If you are just slow-building CHs, think about how many turns it will take to repay that investment vs building Wealth.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Spoiler :

And TOTALLY agree on TGL if I had any knowledge of the map beforehand. I had no that 17 cities in 1100 would make me only the third largest civ.

Spoiler :

Lol it's a "garbage & small" map, GLH is always a good option . I call it that, but it IS true that the wonder is consistently strong on both &small

I seriously hate these scripts, so I read spoilers without playing it. They give enormous imbalances in land distribution (this time it favors the human), have obnoxious micro to deal with the islands, and further overpower already strong things like GLH and Sid's Sushi, CONSISTENTLY.

I guess they can be fun, but the lack of balance just isn't for me at least.

 

[Skipity]

Re: Wealth:

Spoiler :

I could see building wealth if there were any kind of Tech "Race" going on (and I do build wealth to win Eccon). But for the first 5000 years, I always had a comfortable tech lead with 2-4 Monopolies in reserve. The whole map teched slow; so infrastructure was better than keeping the slider @100%. My first invasion was like 40 turns after a typical post lib invasion.

Is there a better investment of a 3-4 Pop whip a few turns after CoL that I'm just not seeing?

That wealth building (on a very low hammer continent)? You're gonna wish you invested in court houses when you have 30 cities after your FIRST war. "Oh but you can just whip them later." Nah: you're whipping troops.

Re "shoulda Known"

Spoiler :

Yep. I didn't see "Big and Small" and remember what it was all about (even though I had abused that map script some years ago for some HoF #1 on Score).

 

[Izuul]

I never disagreed with the 3-4 pop whip of CHs when you need them, but that one pic you posted showed size 1 and 2 cities + the cap building CHs.

 

[Skipity]

Til 36 cities:

Spoiler :

So France was a joke. But in spite of real life reputation as surrender monkies, kicking him off of the continent was not enough for capitulation.





No real reason to chase: He has no path to victory.





No gunpowder ghandi? Ok - you're next.




But I arrived on his boarder the turn he gets rifling. Well, we didn't get all dressed up for nothing: a few rifles won't stop us. But first, I have an arrogant demand:




Give me archery PUNK. That'll stop peace vas nonsense or a bribe to war among the hindu brothers.

He was ready to give in:



But I really could abuse that Christo Statue a whole lot more than a spiritual leader.

Since he wasn't about to hand it over, a few more horses had to die before capping him.



I considered going for more, but as long as he doens't have 3 cities that can go legendary, he can't win.

Then Destroying Spain was practally an afterthought.

Spoiler :

How many times does this happen? 36 cities, and 2 vassels with 19 more cities, and my domination limit is 38%?!?!

LAME

Spoiler :

I do love going into slavery and OR for a single turn, whipping and then going back to the caste system the very next turn.

Next is khmer as soon as ghandi finishes arty for me.

 

[oranje willem]

1848 AD domination

Spoiler :

Room for plenty of cities and no one DoWed me in the whole game. Cavalry and later artillery for a very easy domination victory.

 

[Skipity]

1806 Win:

Spoiler :

Capped Khmer when he still had 15 cities. Capped Tok the same turn (i don't remember even killing one of his units)

Ghandi Built the UN for me, so I was pretty sure that was enough for Diplomonation.

Press enter 5 times and yup, it was:



Just a shade under Oranje Willem's Score:



Way too much land. Either that or not enough civs.

But probably just too much land.

What I built - Not a single World wonder. Put hammers only into Taj and lost it.

 

[Izuul]

1515 AD

Spoiler :

Well Frenchie attacked me a few turns before i could defend both of my border cities and he took one of them with a big stack of junk units. No big deal, i took it back shortly thereafter and then wiped him off the continent.

Spoiler :

I have an army of workers trying to replace the old improvements in captured cities to workshops and watermills, but they aren't keeping pace.

Spoiler :

I guess i may as well go for domination now. I currently have 25% of the land, but that should grow to something like 32-33% as more captured cities come online and get border pops. I'll probably go for Gandhi and Sury next for no other reason than they happen to be on the largest continent and it will be the most convenient way to get a lot of land. Sury is very, very backwards. Gandhi has Steel, but he's nowhere close to Rifling. I'll upgrade to Cavs before i sail over there, and hopefully take him out before he can really defend himself.

 

[Izuul]

1680 AD and I'm beginning to wonder if...

Spoiler :

Our entire starting continent + the two decent sized islands i have + the entire Gandhi/Izzy/Sury continent is even going to be enough to hit 64% land. I guess I'll find out soon enough. I just finished reducing Gandhi to 3 island cities, and i have 100+ cavalry about to invade Spain. I was able to get full city visibility on Izzy with 2 turns of espionage slider and she really has nothing outside of a handful of Grens. Sury has absolutely nothing.