Immortal University XVIII

[Learningciv]

Marathon/Immortal

Spoiler :

Since it is marathon on opening turn I send my settlers 2SW to the coastal plains hill that keeps both corn in BFC to have a look if that hill is worth settling for the extra production. I find fish and decide to settle here. Due to expansive I am not so concerned about loss of fresh water. First choice is I tech mining. I have two unforested hills in BFC (though one of them grows a forest very early).

Early scouting reveals a small penisula to the north and a protective leader (who founds buddism) to my east. I decide to tech towards pottery over bronze working as Charl would be very difficult to rush with bronze and I lack commerce for expansion. I'm also thinking I can delay archery thanks to DanF style barb busting and the limited amount of land.

After my 3rd settler was built (2100BC) by my capital I started building SH, aiming to get as much cash from it as I can when the AI builds the wonder. Sadly I only get 62 gold from it (on marathon thats not much).

1700BC I have the following cities with 2 more planned out. I have a settler already in place at the southern most city in case Charly sends out one of his own, but I am trying to delay settling it just now.

Spoiler :

1150BC I have 6 cities and have just started working my first 2 GS's in capital. Its also pumping out archers to try and raise power rating (bronze + AH both failed to find anything. Teching towards IW now in the hope I have some form of military resource. Buddism has spread across the land and me + Charly + Kublai are all buddists. So far I think I am doing alright, however I am concerned about my lack of military. A DOW would all but do me at the moment however I am hoping religion will keep my neighbours happy for a bit. My workers are busy making sure I'v got tons of cottages but also enough food/production so when I hit construction I can consider halting science growth to wage a catapult war.

Spoiler :

I pickup two sources of iron (one under a village but that tile did look VERY suspicious).

770B.C. I get a message "The Maya civilization has been destroyed". Do I have a huge military empire accross the seas??? I'm mapping out Charly's lands preparing for a cat invasion. Hopefully he will build a shrine in his capital. Finding walls in EVERY city (stone+pro), won't be a fun invasion.

630BC I pop a great scientist from my capital. I settle it and switch my capital over to full military production. A 2nd GS from another city is 1/3rd of the way completed. 610BC Kublai DOWs Charly. This will be great for me. 590BC Kublai asks for my help, even though I am missing Cats I dow to help my future diplo. 530BC Florence is mine for the bargin price of 2 swordman. At this stage of the campaign I have pillaged all holy roman metal sources.

By 30A.D I have only managed Florence + Aachen and I make peace. Im making around 60bpt but for this time of the game I think my island is a bit backwards. On top of that I am very sure I have a runaway Civ on another landmass. Based on wonders alone they are way ahead on tech, plus there is a single city that has Stonehenge + Parthanon + Great Library + Temple of Artimis + Statue of Zues....

Spoiler :

My main concern at the moment is the other landmass. One Civ already wiped from the game due to conquest, another civ spamming tech + wonders by 1A.D while my island is relativly backwards it seems. Can anyone who plays Immortal full time tell me if those wonders are generally ALL built by 1A.D?

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Seems a pretty harsh map for my first Immortal game, but here it is.
Epic speed, 40 AD:

Spoiler :

Kinda surprising to see such an economy crash at the third city. I founded it pretty far away, to block at least some land from Charles, but still.

Techs: mining - BW - archery - mysticism - wheel - pottery - AH - writing - aesthetics - alpha (Charlie) - researching currency

At wheel i was generating 2-4 gpt, so I had to swap tiles and work stuff like riverside plains to get some commerce and make it to pottery. Cities had absolutely nothing to build for a while, so I have a lot of archers.


4000 - Settle in place.

3475 - First AI is Charlie, very close to the E. Too close.

3300 - Second and last AI on this continent is Kub.

3075 - We don't have copper, research archery.

2800 - Early second city, Charlie just founded his third.

2425 - Pretty obvious we'll end boxed in this corner by Charlie, so I claim the gems. This way I have room for 3-4 cities around the capital.

1050 - Had to wait for a while to found the next city.

95 - Future GP farm and draft city later:

40 AD - Aesthetics to Charlie for alpha and I finally can build research. Nothing to build anyway and I'm on my way to currency.

Empire. UMgungu was a prod city in my original plans, but I had to spam cottages everywhere. Whale/wine city will be settled 1W from the original location. Stupid Charlie and his culture.

Techs:

Diplo is ok. Both are pleased, so Charlie can't declare. If I make it alive to civil service I'll be safe from Kub as well.

I have room for 6-7 cities, so no need to go with catapults. Prod is scarce, so I think I'll go with drafted muskets and cannons. If we have iron .

I don't know if this game is winnable for me. Charlie already has 11 cities and is teching very well. He actually knows how to build an army, so he'll be a hard target.

 

[Learningciv]

Spoiler :

Hmm I am going to have to restart this one.... 500A.D. the other island has ran away, Kublai just dow'ed with 11 Keshiks, 7 Elephants, 5 Swords, 11 Cats, and a mix of other things (not to mention his 19 cities). He was friendly, I got -1 from close borders on a city he captured which dropped him to pleased.

Is restarting a lost game allowed or should I just follow this game and wait for next Immortal game?

 

[Tempesta13]

Immortal/Normal to 50 AD (loss)

Spoiler :

Settle in place. Find out i'm boxed in with no copper or horses. Checked for both before archery since barbs wouldn't be a problem this game. Should have gone wheel before mysticism here. Farming riverside plains to work cause i have nothing better to do - doesn't look good... Really needed copper with this start. Maybe some gold from huts would have helped (huts were off). Maybe if i got the gems i would have done ok - i don't know, i needed something as you can see i didn't make it past 50 AD...

Charley gets the gems - at this point i know i have no chance. I'm crawling to the wheel --> pottery --> writing. Will take forever.

Only chance is getting iron (which is likely) and attacking Charley with swords/cats. I got cottages/libraries up and will get Aesthetics before 1 AD. If i can use that to trade for iron working/alphabet i might be ok. KK comes to put an end to this game though.

uMajgeasdg;jioejs holds since it was on a hill with 5-6 archers. His initial stack is pretty much destroyed but a couple keshiks get my cottage city. Settle down south just because Charley was headed there. With only one archer defending it i'm sure it will get razed by KK. (it does a few turns later)

But i get it back with an all-Archer attack force. Don't see that too often.

Another stack came and this might be the end. I got Aesthetics and am trying to tech into alphabet until i can get both that and IW from it. KK won't talk peace. Put an academy in capital, made a super-archer with a GG.

My defenses for the 2nd attack - not enough and the game's over.

EDIT: KK didn't have alphabet yet but Charley did (FYI)
I forgot to open borders right away after i (finally) got writing. I'm not sure if KK was WHEOOHRN before writing or not - but maybe the +1 would have prevented it? I know he was WHEEOHRN before hinduism spread to me - but that also might have happened sooner if i opened borders a few turns earlier. It might have been only a couple turns until i remembered to do it so maybe it didn't effect anything. Trade routes for a couple extra turns could have helped too though.

This looks like a pretty tough map (though maybe others will have an easier time with it than i did). Even though i'm winning all my emperor games now (most easily) this maps looks like i'd probably have a tough time even on Emperor. Really a hard map to try to move to Immortal in IMO. Really like the idea of this series - should help out seeing what others do to win on this map (besides not get declared on in the BC's with archers only for defense...) Cats/swords maybe? Interesting to see - wonder if waiting for drafting rifles would work here or if that is too little too late? Look forward to the next one and hope it'll be a little bit better land than we had here.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hmmm. That's one of the pitfalls of playing a random map rather than checking it...it seems a lot of people are struggling.

I'm going to start it now too...hopefully not adding to the L column .

 

[mzprox]

I gave up in 17xx, after the UN forced me into US from representation..

There were some other reasons too:

Spoiler :

I dunno why I'm playing on immortal/deity when i don't like to go wars at all . I was the tech leader for quite a long time, except maybe that cheater ) ) Pacal. Seriously: he was a vassal with 5 not so great cities and still outteched everyone, builded most of the wonders.. WTH?
I gave up because i had no other chance, but to go war and i had no oil. I've planned to get the standard ethanol corp (was close to it), but i didnt wanted to play a war game and that UN resolution was the final drop . (I had 8 cities with the "super capital" strategy-settled great persons and such..)
Spying worked well in the begining. Unfortunately our neighbours will be quite backward and stealing from the other continent is quite impossible.. (too expensive). I had around 300 sp/turn with 0% slider. After 17k+ spypoints the only thing i could steal was divine right.

 

[Lansky]

Immortal/Epic
Decided to throw in the towel around 1200AD

Spoiler :

Eventually declared on Charlie and Kublai even dogpiled with me and the military bonus pushed him to friendly for a while. Alas after the war was over Kublai still had double my power and at least 7 cities on me. It was only a matter of time before fair trade and/or military diplo started to fade with no one to go to war on and nothing to trade him. Around 1200AD diplomacy finally eroded to a point that Kublai declared on me and I had little hope of holding him off while simultaneously having any shot at winning within the next 6 hours so I just dropped out.

No copper. No horses. A protective neighbor that will get out his first settler before we can and since we start with hunting couldn't even cheese it up and worker steal followed by camping a few warriors on a forested hill to stifle Charlie. It's certainly a winnable map, but just a bit more work than I care for right now. Maybe if I replayed and took a beeline to IW and sacrificed a lot of swords without completely wiping out Charlie so Kublai could have something to play with.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Indeed, this one is harsh.

IMM/Normal

To 250 AD

Spoiler :

In place, AG ----> BW. My god, I should have gone pottery before BW . Even with max REX and at one point 168 turns left to research writing, I could only get to 7 cities .

Thing is, this continent is teching pretty slow for immortal. I'm afraid the cottage spam will slow me down too much in war time. I have a feeling my only way out will be a tech-stopping draftfest.

To ~ 1000 AD

Spoiler :

Some bum @#$%:

Explain to me, how, with exactly even border pops, an AI can win over a square equidistant from both cities and otherwise outside the culture range of any other? Are the AIs deliberately given a culture advantage @ even culture? That seems foul.

Anyway as of 1000 AD not much has changed. Got KK to friendly and he'll be even more so with both of us in bureaucracy. That clears the dogpile concerns, now I just have to find a way to cut charlie down...

 

[pigswill]

Immortal Epic 1010ad.

Spoiler :

Surviving so far even without an army and only five cities. Just managed to get lib>nat in 1010. No sign of any overseas friends as yet so I wonder just how advanced they are. However a long way to go and I still have to build an army and get to more than five cities. Chuck is friendly, KK is pleased but accruing some bonuses for fave civic so I'll have to see how it goes.

 

[Sleepless]

- 1110AD Immortal/Normal

Spoiler :

I started off by settling 1SE. Initial techs went Mining, BW, Myst then to Priesthood for the Oracle. By the time I'd built the Oracle I realised I'd need a bit more room so took IW with the intention of attacking Charlie. I took much to long to build an army and tech towards Construction. I still needed some more siege when I eventually attacked in 660AD as Charlie was getting very near Feudalism.

Good timing or what.

I managed to put Aachen into revolt with a spy on the first turn and it fell quite easily. Everything just went downhill from there.

Lands after 500 years of war.

Aachen has gone into revolt. I had been very close to taking Prague, By then Charlie had Machinery and XBows so I gave him 350ish gold for peace. He immediately went to pleased and I asked for 200 gold back and got it.

I'm not going to show the tech screen because I am so backwards. At least Aachen had the Mids so with Rep and when I eventually get CoL I can run Caste and try and get some GP's to help bulb me back (hopefully )

 

[nanomage]

immortal marathon, to 735AD.

Spoiler :

adopted CS/bureao/OR

sitting locked with 5 cities was too painful, and i decided to attacks Charlie with maces.
through some trades and luck i got to them before he had vassalage. (He had castles though) unfortunately, KK wasn't willing to attack charlie for CS+machinery, and i had to attack on my own.
adopted slavery to whip away angry citizens and for more army.

i was able to capture Aachen (holy cap with GW, mids, and parthenon), and 2 more of his cities. Cats died massively attacking his castle-defended archers. Now i have trebs, but charlie has LB's, so i doubt anything will change.




all in all, game looks lost. Even KK is running away in tech, and the other continent is more advanced. They have hindu AP, and only 1GG was born there. Looks like a lovefest.charlie is tough, and even if i conquer him completely, i'll still have hardly much land than KK.
I'm open for advice though, can it still be saved? Ah, i'll have a GS in some 4 or 5 turns, maybe this can help?

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Immortal/epic, 1275 AD. Still alive, but not sure if it's winnable:

Spoiler :

Lost liberalism to Kub by 4 turns. My GP farm timing was completely wrong and I didn't get a GS to bulb Philo in time. Actually I got philo via trade from Kub. Meanwhile I was researching down the steel path (eng and part of gunpowder, so I wasn't even that far on the way to steel). Then Kub burned a GM to start a golden age and in 5 turns he went from no Education to Liberalism. The second main mistake was not focusing espionage on Kub.


40 - IW reveals two sources of iron. So we have some military resource after all.

175 - Nongoma:

280 - GS builds academy.

640 - A gift from Charlie. CS is huge in this game, both for the commerce boost and for diplo safety with Kub:

850 - Ondinib:

And Kub is friendly.

870 - GS bulbs Education.

1240 - Another gift from Charlie.

1250 - Kub wins Liberalism. 4 turns later I finish it and Charlie has it already. Another GS sleeps, will bulb chemistry I think.

1270 - First oversea AI is Cathy and her vassal Pacal.


Empire:

I don't have a prod city, so mass drafting seems to be the only option. Ondinib will be a decent prod city with the Moais.

Tech board is painful and losing Lib didn't help in this regard.

Capital:

And diplo:

I really can't see many options here, except mass drafting and cannons. Ulundi is slowly building trebs and I have a GM coming in 15 turns, to upgrade them to cannons. I don't think I will be able to kill Charlie, but I want at least 5-6 of his northern cities. The muppet didn't even build the buddhist shrine.
This is my first Immortal game and Charlie has a respectable 30 buildunitprob, so I have no idea about the amount of units needed to beat him.

On a side note, there's an unknown city with Hindu shrine, Great Library, Colossus, Oracle, Parthenon, Angkor Wat, Sistine, Shwedagon Paya and Apostolic Palace.

 

[Fluxx]

Ya, I fully agree. I think this game is very very hard.

Was it randomly generated? Or did you actually intentionally gave no copper to shaka, bad spawning place, protective mass Rexer on a favourable position, and a different continent with mass techers?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I jumped over our initial hurdle, only to discover a gaping pitfall 3x as deep .

Retiring in a difficult position that might be winnable but w/o desire for that, 1755 AD:

Spoiler :

IMM/Normal

My initial expansion was good for some draft prep. I prepared a lot of troops, and kept from trading rifling pre-reqs to charlie. He did get grenadiers during the war, but I killed his primary stack before he got that tech so I was mostly facing them defending cities, where their bonus isn't nearly as potent:

Well, Cathy had the tech lead and the ENTIRE OTHER CONTINENT WAS HER VASSAL . She had infantry but only landed with arty/rifles. I could have taken her invasion SoD down and with the DP with KK probably survived, but I didn't want to do a slogging mess against a more advanced AI for 1-2 hours with probable defeat. Especially because the reason I was her worst enemy to begin with makes me sick anyway.

Hopefully IU XIX looks better.

To be fair, the primary reason I lost was because I gambled on a trade with an intercontinental AI. It's probably my greatest mistake, actually. I KNOW the AI map hacks and can detect trades with unknown civilizations 100+ turns before meeting them (although I'm not sure why fireaxis allows such nonsense), but I still did it. Lesson learned, I guess? This one would have been hard either way.

Ya, I fully agree. I think this game is very very hard.

Was it randomly generated? Or did you actually intentionally gave no copper to shaka, bad spawning place, protective mass Rexer on a favourable position, and a different continent with mass techers?

It truly was randomly generated. The corn looked really good, too. Sucker's trap I guess .

 

[Bleys]

I think this game is very very hard.

Whew, glad it wasnt just me.

Spoiler :

I couldnt get by Charley first try, I was just too slow, he was ahead of me every step. I re-started and managed to get better cities, and took him on, but it was still a grueling grind, and thats a part of this game I just dont care for, that grind.

Toss another up TMIT. I think its pretty obvious you have a TON of players trying to crack Immortal these days.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Another retire, 1490 AD:

Spoiler :

1490 is when I researched steel, only to find everyone except Kub and Cathy already knowing it. Charlie and Kub signed a defensive pact and so did Kub and Louis.
Both Louis and Mao entered wheoohrn mode when I refused to give some ******** tribute of over 1500 gold.

I could sign a defensive pact with Cathy, Kub and Charlie but it seems pointless. No way to win the next beeline (infantry or artillery) with half the cities of everyone else. Cottages are taking off and multipliers are coming online, but so are their immortal bonuses.

Just a couple screens

Wrong game for my first try at Immortal. Maybe I'll try Fred MS.

 

[Lansky]

Gave it a replay and did better but still resign in the 1800's.

Spoiler :

My last game ended before meeting the other continent. This time I waited until cannons/maces to attack charlie after a better REX ignoring military techs entirely. Ended up with roughly half the continent and KK as an attack dog. Things were looking good until...

Cathy went on a warring spree around 1500 and with nothing to offer her to stop she took over her continent with Cossacks, ending with Louis voluntarily capitulating. So in 1850AD Cathy is going to launch a ship before I can likely get to Computers to try and catch up. If by some stroke of AI idiocy she manages to screw up her massive tech lead on both KK and I then Louis is making a strong darkhorse bid for a Cultural victory after he snatched up all of the late game culture wonders. I could build my own ship and try to raze Moscow before her ship lands and do the same to a French culture city but uhhh... no thanks.

I do not think I am good enough to beat this game without dropping down a difficulty level or maybe trying it on marathon heh.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Aye, chuck another one up TMIT, you'll get some hits immediately.

I thought I could win at immortal even if I was just fooling around but our southern neighbour just wouldn't go friendly despite shared religion and fav civic.

Lesson learned, still can't take immortal lightly.

Now go generate another map for us! The losses are just as useful as the wins.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

our southern neighbour just wouldn't go friendly despite shared religion and fav civic.

He was friendly in my game. Probably borders are a factor as well. I didn't share a single tile with him.

Still, preventing a DoW before his fav civic is just luck.

 

[Jet]

Spoiler :

Is restarting a lost game allowed

Spoiler :

The University threads are pretty much freeform report-and-play. If it's your 2nd or 17th try, just say so in your report so that people can make a fair comparison.

Toss another up TMIT.

chuck another one up TMIT

The more games the better, and let the flowers bloom.

That said, noooo. This game has only been up for two days! Give it a chance. I've only played to 1000 BC, but even glancing at the spoilers for later I don't think it's impossible. People will crack it, and we'll all learn from that. When the post frequency in this thread starts dropping off, that's the time to think about posting the next IU.