Immortal Univesity VI: Carolus Magnus of the Holy Roman Empire

[sampsa]

t204 conquest...slower than yours. Giggles folded surprisingly easy but I had to wait for astro because Huayna took his sweet time getting it . The AI loves to bulldoze cottages and replace them with farms. Should've given him the northernmost city back a while back. AIs also seem to automatically turn down the slower 10% or 20% when at war which is very useful when they're gunning for rifling but frustrating when they're teching something you need. Also was counting on vassals to take a city or two but nope...they insist on bombarding down 100% city defenses 2% at a time with a single catapult despite the only defenders being a pike and longbow and them having like 8 maces. A mechanic which I abused to smash Huayna's stack earlier on but again, a double-edged sword.

I guess moral of the story is, longbows are a viable offensive unit ...in very certain circumstances.

How disappointing. I agree that offensive longbows are cool! Not sure if they lead to better results than a "normal" axe attack though. Early feud can be really cool if you can just chain capitulate them, but here the land shape makes it very challenging.

Btw I'm thinking of trying to go for my first space victory. :O Probably need some help though, regards of the differences in early game strategy and definitely in the final stages.

 

[Fish Man]

How disappointing. I agree that offensive longbows are cool! Not sure if they lead to better results than a "normal" axe attack though. Early feud can be really cool if you can just chain capitulate them, but here the land shape makes it very challenging.

Btw I'm thinking of trying to go for my first space victory. :O Probably need some help though, regards of the differences in early game strategy and definitely in the final stages.

You’re right, axerush could’ve yielded about the same results. However, early capitulation can save you quite a lot of turns and hammers. Also I couldn’t have rolled Huayna with just axes and cats since longbows are stronger on the field, requiring less catapult sacks to start attacking. Plus I wouldn’t have been able to capitulate him.

I’ll gladly answer any space victory questions you have. Good luck!

 

[sampsa]

You’re right, axerush could’ve yielded about the same results. However, early capitulation can save you quite a lot of turns and hammers. Also I couldn’t have rolled Huayna with just axes and cats since longbows are stronger on the field, requiring less catapult sacks to start attacking. Plus I wouldn’t have been able to capitulate him.

I’ll gladly answer any space victory questions you have. Good luck!

Thanks! I'll start a new thread on that when I have time to tackle it.

 

[Tobiyogi]

If this wasn't immortal, I guess one option could, in theory, be settling on the marble, contingent on what moving the settler revealed. This would leave room for a city on the southern tip that could work the two seafood.

I'm really, really looking forward to this game. I might even give it a shot just for kicks, though I don't regularly play at immortal.

I did that, and built straight away a second settler in 12 turns. What else can you do with Charlemagne? Going for fishing so early is a bad option.

 

[sampsa]

Agree that settling on the marble is obvious for a modern player. Again, a bit similar situation than in Justinian game, I think starting with a worker is better than starting with a settler, because of 6-tile and there is no obvious strong 2nd city site.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Agree that settling on the marble is obvious for a modern player. Again, a bit similar situation than in Justinian game, I think starting with a worker is better than starting with a settler, because of 6-tile and there is no obvious strong 2nd city site.

yeah, I am really trying this strategy and I can tell that all my openings have been great so far. IT IS worth going for the 2. settler, especially with bad starting techs. I wouldn't do that with Suleiman probably. And there is a decent second site here up to the north... For me it's 50/50. I see the benefits of strong tiles, but also those of having 2 cities (early trade routes, land claim, fog busting, ...)

 

[Tobiyogi]

Agree that settling on the marble is obvious for a modern player. Again, a bit similar situation than in Justinian game, I think starting with a worker is better than starting with a settler, because of 6-tile and there is no obvious strong 2nd city site.

Some screenshots that I took from savegames....

If you would like to see the different etappes

Spoiler :

building a settler T6, after having settled the 2. city (both are producing a worker) in T15 and having connected both cities, working one corn and one gold mine in T34
It's really situational but here I cannot imagine where to grow, so I can surely postpone the improved corn

 

[krikav]

I can't belive that settler first is best there.
Have you done a comparisson with worker first?

You get a 10T worker, and you can start the settler at T10 if you like, right after the worker is done.
The worker then goes up to the second corn.

 

[sampsa]

Your T34 position isn't good because you started with a settler, it's good because the start is really fast due to +2 city center. Worker first led to a similar position in my game (a few pages back). Hardly superb play by me, but led to a decent lib cuir time.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Your T34 position isn't good because you started with a settler, it's good because the start is really fast due to +2 city center. Worker first led to a similar position in my game (a few pages back). Hardly superb play by me, but led to a decent lib cuir time.

it's everything together, settling on the marble, having 3h tile in the 1. ring, IMP trait, .... I think that this gave me a good start, but I wouldn't claim that you should always start with a settler. just playing around at the moment and i like to try different strategies

 

[sampsa]

If you want to investigate the merits of different strategies, play the opening out in several different manners, and compare. You think going settler first gave you a good start, and it did, because the start itself is really really good due to IMP and 3city center.

 

[krikav]

A quick try to T34.

Spoiler :

Worker first, researching agriculture.
Worker goes improve the southern corn, while capital builds settler.
When corn is finished, capital is allowed to grow to pop2.

4 turns later, capital is at pop2 and resumes settler production.

I like this situation better, only one worker but another settler is about to finish.
Worker has started it's task of clearcutting that area.
Both corns are already improved is worth at bare minimum 25 hammers too.

A crucial element I think is that the gold city is already at pop2, so it can now just continue to work the gold, whereas if it was at pop1 it would have to skimp the gold to start growing.

 

[krikav]

@Tobiyogi
This map has some interesting aspects related to the things you are looking into right now I think:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nc-clxxiv-justinian-i-of-the-byzantine-empire.563349/

 

[Tobiyogi]

@Tobiyogi
This map has some interesting aspects related to the things you are looking into right now I think:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nc-clxxiv-justinian-i-of-the-byzantine-empire.563349/

reserved for later, thx

 

[Tobiyogi]

If you want to investigate the merits of different strategies, play the opening out in several different manners, and compare. You think going settler first gave you a good start, and it did, because the start itself is really really good due to IMP and 3city center.

I think what counts is that I got a good opening with

Spoiler :

a quite successful and early X-rush on Sury

maybe it would have been still better with another production order, but I am not so deeply interested in perfection, I wanna have fun, that's why I'm playing this

 

[sampsa]

Not sure if you have looked into other people's games, but yes, axes are one good way on this map. Certainly not the only one.

Yes, you can play the game without analyzing anything just to have fun. I assumed a comment like "built straight away a second settler in 12 turns. What else can you do with Charlemagne?" was an invitation to analyze the possible options.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Not sure if you have looked into other people's games, but yes, axes are one good way on this map. Certainly not the only one.

Yes, you can play the game without analyzing anything just to have fun. I assumed a comment like "built straight away a second settler in 12 turns. What else can you do with Charlemagne?" was an invitation to analyze the possible options.

Well, I also like analyzing to a certain degree, for exemple I try to match the oracle date with the discovery of a previous tech, plus there are other things you have to calculate, and that is part of the fun. I love micromanaging. I simply don't question a strategy when it has worked out well, only when i got completely crushed ;-)

Yeah, axes were so obvious, but longbows are interesting as well. I thought the longer I wait, the more he will pressure his culture on me and block me off from settling