Improvements Discussion

[Lib.Spi't]

The place to Discuss Improvements

Improvement Entry:

Spoiler :

Full info 
Values in optional tags are the default that will be applied if the tag is not present

		<ImprovementInfo>
			<Type>IMPROVEMENT_XXX</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_XXX</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_XXX_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_XXX_HELP</Civilopedia>
			<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_IMPROVEMENT_XXX</ArtDefineTag>
			<PrereqTech>NO_TECH</PrereqTech>
			<PrereqNatureYields>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
			</PrereqNatureYields>
			<YieldChanges>
				<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
				<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
				<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
				<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
				<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
			</YieldChanges>
			<RiverSideYieldChange>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
			</RiverSideYieldChange>
			<HillsYieldChange>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
			</HillsYieldChange>
			<IrrigatedYieldChange>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
			</IrrigatedYieldChange>
			<bActsAsCity>0</bActsAsCity>
			<bSeaBridge>0</bSeaBridge>
			<bHillsMakesValid>0</bHillsMakesValid>
			<bActsAsCity>0</bActsAsCity>
			<bHillsMakesValid>0</bHillsMakesValid>
			<bFreshWaterMakesValid>0</bFreshWaterMakesValid>
			<bRiverSideMakesValid>0</bRiverSideMakesValid>
			<bNoFreshWater>0</bNoFreshWater>
			<bRequiresFlatlands>0</bRequiresFlatlands>
			<bRequiresRiverSide>0</bRequiresRiverSide>
			<bRequiresIrrigation>0</bRequiresIrrigation>
			<bCarriesIrrigation>0</bCarriesIrrigation>
			<bRequiresFeature>0</bRequiresFeature>
			<bWater>0</bWater>
			<bGoody>0</bGoody>
			<bPermanent>0</bPermanent>
			<iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
			<iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>0</iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>
			<iTilesPerGoody>0</iTilesPerGoody>
			<iGoodyRange>0</iGoodyRange>
			<iFeatureGrowth>0</iFeatureGrowth>
			<iUpgradeTime>0</iUpgradeTime>
			<iAirBombDefense>-1</iAirBombDefense>
			<iDefenseModifier>0</iDefenseModifier>
			<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
			<iPillageGold>0</iPillageGold>
			<iPillageMapProb>0</iPillageMapProb>
			<iPillageMapRange>0</iPillageMapRange>
			<bOutsideBorders>0</bOutsideBorders>
			<PillageCommerces>
				<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
				<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
				<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
				<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
			</PillageCommerces>
			<PillageYields>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
				<iYield>0</iYield>
			</PillageYields>
			<TerrainMakesValids>
				<TerrainMakesValid>
					<TerrainType>NO_TERRAIN</TerrainType>
					<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
				</TerrainMakesValid>
			</TerrainMakesValids>
			<FeatureMakesValids>
				<FeatureMakesValid>
					<FeatureType>NO_FEATURE</FeatureType>
					<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
				</FeatureMakesValid>
			</FeatureMakesValids>
			<BonusTypeStructs>
				<BonusTypeStruct>
					<BonusType>NO_BONUS</BonusType>
					<bBonusMakesValid>1</bBonusMakesValid>
					<bBonusTrade>1</bBonusTrade>
					<iDiscoverRand>10000</iDiscoverRand>
					<YieldChanges>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
					</YieldChanges>
				</BonusTypeStruct>
			</BonusTypeStructs>
			<ImprovementPillage>NO_IMPROVEMENT</ImprovementPillage>
			<ImprovementUpgrade>NO_IMPROVEMENT</ImprovementUpgrade>
			<UpgradeTech>NO_TECH</UpgradeTech>
			<TechYieldChanges>
				<TechYieldChange>
					<PrereqTech>NO_TECH</PrereqTech>
					<TechYields>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
					</TechYields>
				</TechYieldChange>
			</TechYieldChanges>
			<RouteYieldChanges>
				<RouteYieldChange>
					<RouteType>NO_ROUTE</RouteType>
					<RouteYields>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
						<iYield>0</iYield>
					</RouteYields>
				</RouteYieldChange>
			</RouteYieldChanges>
			<WorldSoundscapeAudioScript>NONE</WorldSoundscapeAudioScript>
			<bGraphicalOnly>0</bGraphicalOnly>
			<iAppearanceProbability>0</iAppearanceProbability>
			<SpawnUnitType>NO_UNIT</SpawnUnitType>
			<iSpawnRatePercentage>0</iSpawnRatePercentage>
			<bSpawnOnBuild>0</bSpawnOnBuild>
			<bSpawnBarbarian>0</bSpawnBarbarian>
			<SpawnRequiresCivics>
				<SpawnRequiresCivic>
					<CivicType>NO_CIVIC<CivicType>
					<bRequired>0</bRequired>
				</SpawnRequiresCivic>
			</SpawnRequiresCivics>
			<CivicSpawnRateModifiers>
				<CivicSpawnRateModifier>
					<CivicType>NO_CIVIC<CivicType>
					<iSpawnRateModifier>0</iSpawnRateModifier>
				</CivicSpawnRateModifier>
			</CivicSpawnRateModifiers>
			<iCulture>0</iCulture>
			<iCultureRange>0</iCultureRange>
			<iVisibilityChange>0</iVisibilityChange>
			<iSeeFrom>0</iSeeFrom>
			<iMinRange>0</iMinRange>
			<bBombardable>0</bBombardable>
			<bUpgradeRequiresFortify>0</bUpgradeRequiresFortify>
			<TraitCounterMods>
				<TraitCounterMod>
					<TraitType>NO_TRAIT<TraitType>
					<iCounterMod>0</iCounterMod>
				</TraitCounterMod>
			</TraitCounterMods>
		</ImprovementInfo>

Slave Pen:
Improvement
Built by a Slave
Spawns Slave with Slavery Civic

Prison Work Camp:
Improvement
Spawns Prisoner(like a slave) with Penal System Civic

Bandit Camp:
Improvement
Spawns Bandit with Banditry Civic

Auto Robot Factory:
Improvement
Spawns (Some kind of Robot) with Robotic Armies Civic

Patrol Station:
Improvement
Not as good defensively as a 'fort' but is better for spreading culture borders.
May also spawn something under some civic.

Propaganda Tower:
Improvement
Good for Spreading Culture.

I am thinking about adding in the concept of 'combo' improvements that are very expensive but give the effect of multiple improvements, like fortified farms and mines that act like a watchtower/fort and a farm/mine.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

To Do List:

Fix Watermill costing nothing.
Fix/Balance all improvement stats.

 

[clanky4]

Need to be cheaper.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Care to ellaborate?
How much cheaper should they be?

they need to be much more diificult to build than in bts, because they are much more powerful and important.

The trick is getting the balance of power/cost right.

 

[clanky4]

Not necessarily across the board but early the improvements that produce commerce, (scavenging camps right?), should be way cheaper. As it stands from my last play through I wasn't able to build any improvements until way later in the game, after I built a market and built wealth for a few turns, because there is no commerce in any tiles other than decayed urban wasteland and some resources.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Logging teams produce 1 commerce I think. (If not they should be)

The Mayor/Overseers Office is the first source of Commerce in buildings.

What price do you think Scav camps should be?

What sort of income are you seeing?

Market and Wealth are both classical era objects.

The events I added (you might not be playing with those) Can also randomly give you free or cheap scav camps and logging teams.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

You see in my current game (I am a Vault faction so might be easier) I feel like the improvements are just about hte right price if not too cheap.

it's turn 327 (early-mid classical era) I have an income of 500 and a bank of 5500, which is enough to build two mines (one of the most expensive improvements currently) or 5 cottages. That seems like more than enough to me? (I also have fully developed my first town, and have 3-4 on 2 of my other towns. That seems like more than enough to me.

What have your experiences been like?

 

[clanky4]

Thus far I've been too distracted by the new interface to give the mod a proper go. Too different, cannot compute.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Really? It is not THAT Different!

 

[clanky4]

The unit order buttons are all scrunched up together and have to be scrolled, and the HUD is not vanilla BTS. I don't know why that just bothers me. This is why I can't make a proper full conversion mod

 

[Lib.Spi't]

what is your resolution setting?

 

[clanky4]

full screen: 1024 x 768



Scrunched

 

[Randomness]

I've found the improvement cost about right as well. High enough to prevent much developement in the early game, opening up not long after you're able to expand.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Clanky, can you repost that (Post #12) Here and then delete the contents of that post. We can continue the discussion there.

Just so we don't get off track here.

@Random:
Ok I will leave the prices as is for now, and we will see if we get more feed back either way.

 

[clanky4]

I did have something related to improvements I noticed. Roads cost 100 gold, laying a path costs 1000 gold. I don't think routes should cost that much in the first place but it seems those two values have been reversed. Since paths come WAY earlier in the tech tree and are only used to connect resources.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Yes, I noticeed that too

I think it was a typo.

I quite like the high price of connectivity, I am currently working on connecting my mega vault network, and I feel like it is about the right speed.
If I focus all my effort just on the network, I can keep building it turn after turn, but I cannot have loads of workers building all over the place, this feels about right in my current game. (I am still in the classical era, with about 5-8 cities, some are brand new size 1-5)

Connectivity is so much more powerful in FTTW, as bonuses can boost all buildings in a city. It needs to be that you have to work hard to get that benefit, no one said Taming the Waste would be cheap or easy!

 

[clanky4]

Maybe we should allow workers to do something productive while you are waiting to accumulate enough money to build an improvement. Maybe we can have them have little missions, similar to great merchants, where they can 'search' and area, and have a random chance of finding a random yield.

For example I set the worker to search, after 3 or 4 turns they 'find' 2 hammers.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

that is a lot of work code wise.

In my game I didn't do much waiting (this was normal speed) and now I have about 40000 in the bank and can't build improvements fast enough!

One thing I was going to look into was if ihurry automatically suicides your unit, or if you hve to set ihurry and bsuicide for that. If not I wanted to start thinking of adding stuff like diggers or cranes that you can sit in a city and turn after turn add some hammers to production using ihurry. If it works, workers could add a little too. Althougth after the early classical era they were too busy for it to matter in my game!

 

[clanky4]

hurry does not suicide your unit. It consumes them for the greater good of the whole.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Destiny! DESTINY!