Improvements Discussion

[LonelyLurker]

The Path/Road costs are definitely backwards.

In general I think there's not quite enough money at the beginning, and way too much later on.

My suggestion is to give the Civilization's HQ +$10, and reduce the yield on the Wealth process to 25%.

With the number of hammers available in this mod, it might even be a good idea to reduce all the process yields to max out at 25%, but maybe give an early 10% one for money as well.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Yes, roads price is in the bug thread to be fixed.

I definately want to add more gradients to the processes.
So we unlock maybe a 10%, 25%, 50%, and 75% and scrap the full 100%. It was one of those tasks I started with the Search the Wastes process but never got around to finishing.

It would probably help reduce the 'catapult' moment where you go from struggling to overwhelmingly wealthy in a very short space of time.

Maybe I could add a few more 'administration' buildings to the first era, that like the Mayor/Overseer Office are part of the palace infrastructure. At the moment that gives +5 gold yield.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Building Debate continues Here

 

[Lib.Spi't]

I am also comtemplating the idea of making Vault civs have a unique worker, with a unique build list and unique version of the improvements that would be more expensive than the non-vault versions. Representing the more internalised nature of Vault Civs.

 

[clanky4]

Vault civs already have a unique worker skin. What could they possibly build that any other civ couldn't build given the time. Granted they sometimes have a geck. So maybe they could build some improvements sooner than normal civs because of this or possibly slightly, but not much, faster.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

They would not be so much different as harder to build.

Representing the idea of Non-Vaults being more used to working outside compared to Vaults.

Vault City was a completely enclosed settlement, where most other places were just open farmland and such.
It's just the idea that a Vault is a more internalised structure and society, working the land can bring great benefits, but for a V to do it requires more will and resources.
It would take a lot to convince someone to leave the safety of a Vault to plant and defend a crop of potatoes from giant scorpions!
They might also have advanced agricutural knowledge or equipment, but that is not the point or reason for it.

 

[sir_blaze]

in my game both lay paths and build roads are the exact same price of 1k each now the bonus roads give of double speed they should be more expensive than laying paths.

now laying a path is just a bit of shoveling and trampling to get 1 going or sending a cart across it regularly so i don't see why it should cost 1k gold either so maybe reduce the cost of the path to 200-500 gold ? i don't see how they cost more than setting up an entire scav camp. i must admit i'm playing epic so unless i'm playing a gold race its a long time till i can build the first improvement .

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Yes this has been something that was raised a few times, originally I think it was a typo, but it actually paces out the game more in the way I want it to be. (although much of the content to fill this early period has not been implemented yet..)

But the idea is this:
The 'stuff' needed to make a path is not really the expensive part, it is more the idea of creating and maintaining a 'safe/clear' route. Such as digging in pontentially radioactive soil, mega weeds clogging up the path, various mega bugs that want to eat your flesh, etc.

The second reason is that resources are much more valuable in FTTW and have a much greater effect on everything so the connections are also much more valuable.

The third reason is that the gameplay is designed to be much more 'choice difficult' so you reallly have to choose what to do in what order, so connecting a resource is a major project, it may be better to instead go for building multiple improvements, etc.

A lot of this was also tweaked in the later builds, just getting those to work is the issue at the moment!

 

[sir_blaze]

ok thanks Boss i guess my real issue with it was that the lay paths was the same price as the build roads yet build roads gave you that quicker movement so figured lay roads should be at least somewhat cheaper. i do understand you want choices in it and appreciate that

also thank you for all your work it is appreciated

I've managed to get the 5.5 build going is there later builds that have been released ?

 

[Lib.Spi't]

oh nice one, I just made a 5.51 release, which is a full download again.

It just has a few stability fixes and hopefully a loadability improvement too.

Also what did you do to get 5.5 to work? (the more workable solutions I can get the more likely I can help others.)

5.5 changes quite a lot, the nesxt buld will take a lot of work and planning, I am looking for new people to come on board and help with it, as I don't have much motivation to do it on my own..

the reason I din't change the price of roads, is often in the beginning you will be laying them over paths, so you have basically spent 2000 gold. After that I figured it was a high enough price anyway so you get the stones for free.

 

[sir_blaze]

it was the DLL file (from SF i believe) that worked for me.

ahh see by the time i have 1k gold i'm already near build roads so it's not much of a wait to build roads rather than use lay paths for all of 5-10 turns lol, it maybe the way i choose my techs i guess.


anyways thanks again for your time and effort it is much appreciated ?.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Ok cool, hopefully that means the 5.51 version will help a lot more people to be able to play.

Yeah sometimes choosing techs can make a big difference I also want to fill out the beginning of the game some more as well, with events and such that allow you to get gold or other such quick boosts.

the paths are really just there to allow you to connect a resource if you get a good one at the right time early on.

 

[sir_blaze]

maybe an Event to get Dogmeat ? i mean he is synonimous with Fallout. ( increases happiness by 1 because he's an awesome companion/pet)

how about an event where you can recruit a special unit based on choices ? similar to steve in a way but longer and at the end you get a unique unit dependant on all your choices or civ choice or even both. so a vault would end out with maybe a unit called the tunnel snakes, whilst the non vault end out with an honor guard? or you could choose companions that appear in any of the fall out games there's loads to choose from.

another event could be brahmin caravans but enable them so it can show periodically instead of just once (if thats possible), ( if you have the gold get a resource for 1-5 turns or if you have access to a resource get gold for 1-5 turns or maybe trade food for several turns or 1 hit in trade for extra gold ?)

as a final idea how about Civ based event where you can send your civ's into 2-3 different directions based on event choices to make each civ more unique than they are currently, ie with the BoS have their splintering built into it so lyons helps the people more so you end out getting a bonus in negotiations with other civs, but if you choose the outcasts you get access to a new tech based unit. and if you choose the 3rd option you get increased safety production. where as tribals would get the access to a geck through the chosen 1 quest that increases health, or they choose to go militant and get a bonus against the new wild life, 3rd option they specialise their farming techniques and get a +1 on food production.

atm i've found exploration extremely limited to non existant after turn 8-10 the map goes from no critters to you're surrounded and everything is tougher than any of your units. min str 4 and until you have wanderer nothing can compete and there are 16's wandering around i found my wanderer can last 1 turn outside of the cultral zone . . . if i'm lucky but pretty much all my exploration is through cultural expansion

also the text for steve event 3 doesn't show properly it shows path codes i believe and not the actual text of whats sposed to happen.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

ah pants, something must have gotten broken in the steve chain.. I noticed some spelling mistakes that I had missed as well.

I will need to check it again, I thought I had got it all working now but I must have missed something. Want path did you choose? It may just be one.

Yeah you have got the idea of the sorts of things I want to do with events, someo f those won't be possible I think, I need to look again at what I can do with events as it has been a while.

I like the idea of the caravans, we have wanted to have some kind of caravan system for ages, and this could be it.

I want to do civ specific ones as well.

With the Lyon's idea, my plan is to actually have this happen through civic choices, if you choose certain civics with certain factions and stay with them long enough they will start to become like a version from fallout.

So as you said if the bos focus on refuge and such they will become like Lyon with unique Lyon's Pride units and such.

Or if New Cal. focus on wealth they will become corrupt like in New Vegas but if they are more refuge/altuistic they will be more like Tandi's vision of F1-2.

Yeah exploration is designed to be slow and the wasteland is much more dangerous than regular civ. In the beginning you can only really move inside of your borders and those of other factions, then you can loot and pillage until you are ready to go exploring proper, but it takes time because the wasteland will kill the unprepared.

I made a new events thread, if you want to plan out anymore ideas, it also has a link to the xml tags for events so you can see what is possible with the code.

Also if you want to think of any more faction specific stuff you can add it to the applicable faction thread.

 

[sir_blaze]

well i don't have the 5.51 batch so if thats something you fixed there then i'm not upto date i just got 5.5 working so didn't want to um er well jinx it really lol,
but for the steve chain it was the ultimate fighter one for V5.0
it was the security forces for V 5.5

yeah i just thoguht of the events on the spot since you mentioned some early content

as for exploration is slow it wasn't till i got the unit that uses assault rifles that i was able to do any sort of exploration and they aren't a recon/ exploration unit and i was still loosing them outside my borders to 35str barbs lol.

as for coming up with ideas i can attempt a few more of them i've usually got something silly i want lol.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Yeah top get the mod to be what I really want it to be, the vision tht is festering in my head, there is still SO much to do! Even if I take mod components/features off the table, just the XML additions is still massive. 100+ Traits easy, Tech additions, new improvements and terrain features, faction specific content (units, buildings, traits, improvements, and, and, and.), events and event content(units, buildings,etc.) that is just off the top of my murky brain.. So much to do!

Yeah I might have fixed some of the text for the 5.51 build, to be honest it was all so long ago I don't even know what I did if anything!

 

[sir_blaze]

just a couple of things
is it possible to rename the eifel tower to 'Galaxy News Radio Station' it sorta makes more sence game world wise.

also is it possible to change the shown population amount. what I mean is when you get a congratulation on your population reaching 1/2 a million souls then 1 million and so forth this doesn't really, feel dare i say it, immersive to the game world.
so like starting population rather than be 1000 which really is a lot of people for such a dangerous world maybe reduce it to 50 population ie several families that have created stability and then work those benchmarks from there ? if it's not possible so be it

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Yeah these are just minor cosmetic issues that are way down on my to do list.

I haven't even really started on wonders yet, those are just ones left in that I can see a repurpose for.

The other one is finding the appropriate TXT_KEY to change as well as finding out at what size it triggers.

In my mind the pop numbrs have always represented about 1-10 people (or one family) so that 100 pop cities are about 1000 people-ish. So not much in 'old world' terms.

These are jobs that are just way down on the to do list, or 'technically' easy jobs that I was hoping to find volunteers to help with. The last couple of years have been fairly limited in volunteers though.

 

[sir_blaze]

i completely understand good sir. i just feel this mod is definitely worthy of attention so am just trying to point out things that i see that would make it more in style and yeah i know they're minor changes . just thought they may be small enough they were overlooked i wish i could help you at the least garner more interest from those who could actually help

 

[sir_blaze]

in my personal opinion you need to set the distance of factions a bit further apart first turn contact means that vaulters will have a lot of trouble even expanding to even 2 villages and it gives a huge bonus to teams like raiders and ceasers who get a bonus with pillaging