Improving the Constitution

[Intuition]

I was wondering if anyone would like to start a simple Mod with me where we could add more choices to the Constitution that makes the game more interesting, more realistic, as well as making revolution (slightly) easier.

Objectives:
I. Adding more interesting choices to the Revolution phase.
II. Placing historical controversies forgotten in the game.
III. Making the Revolution more fun and slightly more easier.
IV. Keeping Game Balance.
V. Not plaguing the Constitution with crazy things and making it overly complicated.
"What is your stance on Postal Offices?"
-We shall establish State Mail! (Pay -30% less gold to ship mail)
-We shall establish a National Mail! (-50% longer mail delivery).
-Reading is the tool of the Devil! (+2 Probe, +1 Morale, -2 Research)
VI. Keep it simple to a few ideas, nothing Serious.
VII. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY

Here are the ideas I have so far

What is your stance on the Federal Government?
The Government should have a strong, central federal government. Form the Continental Army! (Spawns 5 Veteran Soldiers)
The rights of the States shall not be infringed. Form the State Armies! (Spawns 1 militia and 1 guns worth for an extra militia at each settlement).

This option allows the players to decide whether or not their nation is fighting as a unified army or a series of colonies banding together against a nation. On one hand, if you are a small nation with less then 6 colonies, then you'll probably want a strong Federal government. Finally, a way to generate Veteran Soldiers. If you are a vast and spread out nation, you'll probably want that extra militia plus that extra equipment to fight against the REF.

Who shall lead us in this great time of crisis?
Our great admiral who will defeat them by the sea! (All Ships receive 10 Free XP Points. Spawn one Man-o-War)
Our great general who will crush them on the land! (Receive a free Great General).

Winning by sea isn't really an option because SOLs just cannot take out the Man O Wars. However, by giving the ability for players to upgrade their ships with things like "Skirmisher or Veteran", they might have a chance of sinking some of the king's forces. Plus, that extra Man-o-War really helps out as it allows the player to sink a ship of the REF, as that represents the best ship the colony has to offer against the REF. Best of all, if your not too gung ho about navies, you can always get a free Great General who can pump up your units in combat.

The last idea I want to put in is Income Generation independent of trading. A system of taxation if you will. I'm working on ideas right now.

I have some experience modding XML but that's about it. I need to work together with someone is who is a little more mod-savvy then me so that we can accomplish this little project together. Email me at Jyoungr@gmu.edu if you want to start this project.

If anyone is interested or wants to offer a suggestion or wants to offer advice or just wants to say hi feel free to post. All feedback is appreciated.

Regards.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Sounds good... but I'm hesitant to make winning the war at sea possible. I can't think of a single New World country that won it's independence with a successful and decisive naval campaign (and certainly not without foreign help). In virtually every case, the home country maintained naval superiority and for good reason. It's a lot easier to scramble soldiers than ships.

 

[nate895]

Sounds good... but I'm hesitant to make winning the war at sea possible. I can't think of a single New World country that won it's independence with a successful and decisive naval campaign (and certainly not without foreign help). In virtually every case, the home country maintained naval superiority and for good reason. It's a lot easier to scramble soldiers than ships.

Us Americans wouldn't have won our independence if it wasn't for the French Navy's only major victory in their history. I think that that should somehow come into play. Also, it is already possible on lower difficulties to win by sea, you just have to be very lucky with resource placement and specialists you get at the docks.

As for the idea of overhauling the Constitution, I like it. I have one specific request, and that is to make the benefits of the right to bear arms greater. I hate bringing myself to push the "controlled arms" button every time because the benefit of right to bear arms is so stupid. I feel like I am oppressing my population. I think it would be better if the benefit was +.5 combat for militia forces, or maybe +100 guns per settlement. Something like that would make it at least compete with controlled arms.

 

[Antilogic]

I haven't actually fought a Revolutionary War yet, so ignore me if this is already in the game:

When and if a foreign power decides to intervene on your behalf, their King should send forces to the New World and retain control over them, including the navy, and then the AI battles it out while you watch. To my understanding, this is how your native allies operate in the new version of the game.

I like the centralized vs. decentralized government choice myself. I would only add one, just to keep relative simplicity in the Constitution, but that was a major issue for the North American colonies (future USA). I would recommend scaling the number of Veteran Soldiers you receive with the Map size, though.

 

[nate895]

I haven't actually fought a Revolutionary War yet, so ignore me if this is already in the game:

When and if a foreign power decides to intervene on your behalf, their King should send forces to the New World and retain control over them, including the navy, and then the AI battles it out while you watch. To my understanding, this is how your native allies operate in the new version of the game.

I like the centralized vs. decentralized government choice myself. I would only add one, just to keep relative simplicity in the Constitution, but that was a major issue for the North American colonies (future USA). I would recommend scaling the number of Veteran Soldiers you receive with the Map size, though.

It isn't in the game, and I think it's a great idea. If it weren't for the French, the USA would have either lost the Revolution, or it would have taken many more years, and much more blood letting and scorched Earth before Independence was finally achieved, in either case the USA wouldn't be the World's superpower today.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Sounds good... but I'm hesitant to make winning the war at sea possible. I can't think of a single New World country that won it's independence with a successful and decisive naval campaign (and certainly not without foreign help).

Us Americans wouldn't have won our independence if it wasn't for the French Navy's only major victory in their history.

I'm not opposed to having other Europeans break the home country's naval superiority. But I think it's highly unlikely for a breakaway colony to construct much of a navy in the time a revolutionary war would take place. The Continental Navy consisted largely of converted merchant ships, and at the start of the war it consisted only of these ships. But in the game, the colonies are allowed to build powerful warships eventhough building a navy would really be under the home country's navy's domain. By the end of the war, the revolutionary government should really only have had time to construct a few dedicated warships.

 

[shaglio]

What is your stance on the Federal Government?
The Government should have a strong, central federal government. Form the Continental Army! (Spawns 5 Veteran Soldiers)
The rights of the States shall not be infringed. Form the State Armies! (Spawns 1 militia and 1 guns worth for an extra militia at each settlement).

I like this Idea, but I think the # of Veteran Soldiers spawned in the Central Federal Government option should be equal to the # of settlements you have and they should spawn in your capital. That way, you would get the same ammount of units, but the choice would be to either have them spawn all in your capital or 1 in each city.

I've played 2 games so far. In the first, the REF attacked all 5 of my cities. In the second, the REF only attacked my capital and a city that was right near my capital on the coast. So in my first game, decentralized government would have been better for me, while in the secong game, centralized would have been better. Of course, this was all in hindsight as I had no way of knowing how the REF would attack until after I declared independence. But that kind of guesswork and uncertainty is all part of the fun.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I like this Idea, but I think the # of Veteran Soldiers spawned in the Central Federal Government option should be equal to the # of settlements you have and they should spawn in your capital. That way, you would get the same ammount of units, but the choice would be to either have them spawn all in your capital or 1 in each city.

I've played 2 games so far. In the first, the REF attacked all 5 of my cities. In the second, the REF only attacked my capital and a city that was right near my capital on the coast. So in my first game, decentralized government would have been better for me, while in the secong game, centralized would have been better. Of course, this was all in hindsight as I had no way of knowing how the REF would attack until after I declared independence. But that kind of guesswork and uncertainty is all part of the fun.

Hmm.. I hear what you're saying, but I think differences between civics should represent different ways of playing rather than a crap shoot of how the other player is going to initiate their invasion.

I think more militia vs. fewer veteran troops is a better set of alternatives. Or perhaps you can have reduced costs for decentralized government, but more free promotions for new units with centralization.

 

[Lajbi]

I like the idea of the question on state automony. Following this logic I think the outcome should effect the Town Hall/Statemen numbers or productiveness. For example If centralized then you could bulid a Capitol or Congress or just simply receive 3 Elders to the Capital, maybe also should delete the remaining settlements Town Halls... If decentralized then add Newspapers to all Colonies or some other Bell boosting building/people but at a lower rate. Regardless we should also keep the soldiers idea, because it is also a good one, but also focusing on avoiding the fact the a combination with freeing the slaves choise would result in receiving 3 servants # soldiers and # statesman (if the idea is accepted)m which is a unfair population boom early in the revolution.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Objectives:
I. Adding more interesting choices to the Revolution phase.
II. Placing historical controversies forgotten in the game.
III. Making the Revolution more fun and slightly more easier.
IV. Keeping Game Balance.
V. Not plaguing the Constitution with crazy things and making it overly complicated.
"What is your stance on Postal Offices?"
-We shall establish State Mail! (Pay -30% less gold to ship mail)
-We shall establish a National Mail! (-50% longer mail delivery).
-Reading is the tool of the Devil! (+2 Probe, +1 Morale, -2 Research)
VI. Keep it simple to a few ideas, nothing Serious.
VII. LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY

I. Sea battles isn't bad idea.
II. The addition of slavery might be more realistic and interesting.
III. Amen to that lol
IV. Yep.
V. There should be more chices, thiugh.

 

[Jimbrock]

I like the idea of having some extra choices because a constitution is not made of ten sentences detailing the stance on churches
How about something along the lines of:

How will we fight this War?

We fight alone! (Printing press in every city and 1 milita in every city)

Represents the 'glory' that some may see in fighting alone and people rallying to the army.

We need foreign help! (Lose 10%LBs in every city [or if that takes it lower than 50% in all down to 50%] and have the euro who youre friendliest with and its king decare war for you)

Represents loss of morale in having some other country help you in war (as if youre not good enough on your own)

But the thing is that this dosent really have much to do with a Constitution as such.

JB

 

[BobTheBull]

First off, Dom Pedro II, it is true the Continental Navy was formed when Congress authorized purchase and refitting of 3 merchant ships in Oct. 1775 (the Marines were formed one month later). But the CN did build warships, having at one point 24 frigates in service. They did sometimes suffer heavy losses but they did win some engagements. They were effective enough to be a real thorn in the side of HMRN until the end of the War of 1812. This was due in part to the RN having many other duties to attend so could only devote a portion of their fleet to North AMerica.

It is not at all unrealistic to think that if the Colonials had started a shipbuilding project well ahead of time in anticipation of the War they could have had enough navy to surprise the English and maybe even defeated them on first engagement. The RN certainly would not have been expecting that. Let's not forget Old Ironsides.

Second, it is somewhat anachronistic to have to draft a constitution when you DOI. The US Constitution wasn't even written until well after the RW was over. Of course, for good game mechanics you do have to do it at the same time.

That being said, I certainly feel the constitution thing needs improvement. Yes, five things with two choices is not enough. I would like to see more than two choices for one, and more planks to choose. A few ideas would be: taxation; individual liberties (habeas corpus, search & seizure); bills of attainders and ex post facto laws (notice I am taking these directly from the US Constitution). I will study the US Constitution and come up with some realistic ideas.

But, each country in the Americas has a constitution; perhaps some of the citizens of those countries could study them and give us some ideas out side the US box?

I hate to make this so long, but lastly, does anyone know if you can simply add planks and civics in xml as you can add buildings and units, or does the gamecore have to be modded to add additional slots?

 

[Jimbrock]

But, each country in the Americas has a constitution; perhaps some of the citizens of those countries could study them and give us some ideas out side the US box?

Here in Malta, we have a constitution that was adopted when we became a republic (1974) not on independence (1964). Getting ideas from there maybe there can be something that defines your borders, maybe they can grow or shrink etc. Also maybe the structure of goverment so mebbe the FFs become MPs and the Continental Congress becomes the House of Representatives...
Or maybe thats too over the top.

JB

 

[BobTheBull]

Thas' what I'm talkin about, Jimbrock!

Now, in terms of game play, the FF's you have already are your Continental Congress (CC) and they still are after DOI. That's just the way the game is set up and I don't think that part is worth changing.

But to refine, or restate, your idea: What you are talking about is the choice between the USA form of government: popularly elected bicameral congress with the upper house having considerable power and a popularly elected President, over the European Parliamentary form of government: a bicameral parliament with an equal or weaker upper house and a PM elected by the majority in parliament (party or coalition) or by the lower house only. Now that is a fine choice! Doubt GWB would still be Pres in a parliamentary government, even with a Republican majority. And what other forms are there? The USA is a Constitutional Rebuplic; Constitutional Monarchy is another choice (and this is already in Col civics); what other forms are there? Social Republic, People's Republic, what else.

This is the kind of idea we are looking for: what choices should you have as to how you set up your government and run your new country. Brings to mind, what code of laws would you base your jurisprudence on? English common law or Napoleonic Code (living in Louisiana this naturally comes to mind). But what other codes are there used by countries for their basis of law, and how would they differ?

And before anybody tries to write in that there was no parliamentary form of government at the time of the AmRev to choose from, DON"T. Actually the British government was a parliamentary government, although not quite the same as it is today. The USA model was what was new. And don't think for one minute that there was unanimous approval of the USA system. Just as in Malta, the Constitution wasn't even written until about 10 years after Independence and then took some time for ratification. Anyone who thinks the Founding Fathers of the USA were of one mind on the various parts of the Constitution has clearly not read the FF's. There was some extreme disagreement among them on many points and some of them did not want a US of A Federal Republic at all! And, yes, some of them did want to adopt the English parliamentary system. There was also a popular movement to crown George Washington King, which died out when GW firmly declared against that.

So let's hear some more ideas from other places about government and politics.

 

[Jimbrock]

This is the kind of idea we are looking for: what choices should you have as to how you set up your government and run your new country. Brings to mind, what code of laws would you base your jurisprudence on? English common law or Napoleonic Code (living in Louisiana this naturally comes to mind). But what other codes are there used by countries for their basis of law, and how would they differ?

I like this idea.

Maybe you could chose how many houses of Parliament, how much power each has, how members are elected to each one, how much power is vested in the head of Government. Maybe you can go for a King/President as a Head of State with limited power and a Prime Minister as Head of Government.

But I doubt all these ideas had developed by the time in which Col is set.

JB

 

[Wheldrake]

King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you, we're an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
King Arthur: Yes...
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
King Arthur: Yes I see...
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

MPFCATHG!

 

[Jimbrock]

King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you, we're an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
King Arthur: Yes...
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
King Arthur: Yes I see...
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

MPFCATHG!

Is this referring to how we're exagerating or is it just a random funny script?

JB

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums Intuition.

 

[prolefeed]

I don't like how you have to declare monarchy to trade with Europe. Really? Free people not lorded over by a tyrant can't trade? Seems like monarchy would IMPEDE trade.

 

[Bob the Barbari]

Is this referring to how we're exagerating or is it just a random funny script?

JB

It's not random funny script. It's Mony Python and the Holy Grail (in case someone doesn't know). One of the best movies ever.

I don't like how you have to declare monarchy to trade with Europe. Really? Free people not lorded over by a tyrant can't trade? Seems like monarchy would IMPEDE trade.

I believe it's more about European monarchs not willing to trade with you (but that's also unrealistic - trade knows no ideological limits - see USSR trading with democratic countries and vice versa). And monarch is not necessary a tyrant (in the modern days there are only a few absolute monarchies - Vatican, and Saudi Arabia, Swaziland, Quatar, Oman, yet there are 44 monarchies, or 29 if you count Elisabeth II once).