In Which We Discuss the Appeal of IOT

I don't want to micromanage resources(take that MP3) because I have more serious things to worry about in my life than an IOT's economy,

An economic system that feels like a college course on the subject. I didn't come to study free market systems vs. state control, I came to roleplay a nation and let my ministers work out the detail work of that.

I don't want to adjust stocks, bonds, investments, and allow for income derivations while trying to prevent an economic recession. I get enough of that planning for my life after I move out with my girlfriend.

This is why MP3 includes an economic automation system. Players only need to micromanage it if they want.

I understood some would miss the days of a single industry value, so rather than make players micromanage all the time, I simply gave them all the option to let me do the allocation of resources, so they can focus on cash, diplomacy and the like. The only time resources absolutely must enter a player's mind is if their economy is seriously lopsided. Other than that, the "ministers," - i.e. me - can take care of the rest. :p

GMs more interested in defending their rulesets than in fixing problems, GMs who want to play their own games so much they make a GMPC and use OOC knowledge to rule the game, and especially GMs without the backbone to kick problem players.

Why do I feel like these are all targeted at me? :(
 
Mostly a rail against the ineffective GMs I've had to deal with, not specifically you - even though you've been guilty of those points from time to time. And the economy change was the main reason I left MP3, just as a note.

Honestly, I liked MP1. It was perfectly fine except for the spies. Rebalance them and I would play the same game again. Better yet, REMOVE spies.

-L
 
But spies are like the most important thing about soft power! I really don't understand why you dislike them so.
 
I don't hate them so much that I won't play a game with spies - you'll notice spies are a part of both the IOTE2 and IOTCW2 rulesets - but I do loathe when soft power is stronger than hard. I want a game where if you draw swords against another nation, their spies are effectively nonentities at that point.

Sure, spies at PEACETIME can be powerful, but once the guns fire, I think they should be next to pointless. And I hate how spies are becoming the be-all end-all of IOT power. Economics and militaries should > spies every time, with spies only useful for basically light raiding and intelligence collection, not being the #1 aspect of your nation's power.

-L
 
I don't hate them so much that I won't play a game with spies - you'll notice spies are a part of both the IOTE2 and IOTCW2 rulesets - but I do loathe when soft power is stronger than hard. I want a game where if you draw swords against another nation, their spies are effectively nonentities at that point.

Sure, spies at PEACETIME can be powerful, but once the guns fire, I think they should be next to pointless. And I hate how spies are becoming the be-all end-all of IOT power. Economics and militaries should > spies every time, with spies only useful for basically light raiding and intelligence collection, not being the #1 aspect of your nation's power.

-L
maybe because NGOs in stuff like MP can be devastating, especially to he economies dependent on their clients, because they grow through spies, bases, and building armys. yet, because of the lack of true land, their very hard to stop. they would have an army the size of the largest nation, and no one know. though that would be one hell of a logistical nightmare. getting enough energy for that...even 100 troops is 10 energy a turn in MP3...or about 20 gold a turn. they need to have a massive stock lying around to maintain that in case of lose of income. the catch is that to destroy a base requires spies. so to defend against the monster NGO, you need spy galore.

Also, now days, soft power is as powerful, or more powerful then ever. OPEC anyone. most (Iran noticeably not included. its capable of fighting a major war since it has a self-sufficient military, a nice thing to have...especially if a world-wide embargo is in effect towards you, as well as having one of the largest populations in the area. Iran is why Saddam stayed in power til 2003. Iraq for all its problems, was a effective buffer state for Arabia, as it has the regions second largest population) have only soft power. the soft power of being allowed to decide the price of international oil. such doesn't sound like much, as all the worlds economies...are dependent on the stuff...theirs a reason why we are so cautious with iran. areas largest deposits of oil equals the ability to boss people around. economies are soft power. military is hard power.
 
Well, first of all, Tany has a boner for soft power, so wanting less soft power in MP is like wanting RoboStalin to be less authoritarian. Or metallic. Secondly, cyber warfare is a thing. Not a not thing. You can't pretend a thing is a not thing.
 
I prefer historical IOT's, like Valkyrie. What I would really like to see is WWI or WWII IOT with the players joining as historical nations and starting at war with each other. That would be fun. An another idea is to have a Cold War IOT, where again players join as real historical nations and the gameplay is like Valkyrie.

Multipolarity's downside is the mistrust, war, and just plain...real life politics occurring. from Christo's nuclear holocaust that completely devastated Hawaii, to his having not honored treaties, to the recent WW1 in IOT X, the games now quickly devolve into chaos. Multipolarity was a very important example, because of the infamy in what Christos did.

I do not see how my strategy in MP was bad or destroyed the game. My main goal was to take over the DR in order to have access to the sea and create a naval fleet to invade Hawaii, my main enemy.

It was India that made the regional war a World War. Since I could not win, I signed a fake peace treaty, destroyed India and when I was doomed for a second time, I selled my country to Oz, nuked Hawaii and then re-joined as NGO and retook China.

As to why I won, it was not because of powergame, but because Oz divided China into too many states. That made Xinjiang weak and allowed me to coup those states and invade Xinjiang. Had Oz kept China united, then I would have not been able to retake it.
 
What I Love:

GOOD roleplay, the kind that simultaniously tells a good story and highlights more about the world. It's my opinion that in roleplay players get a chance to put their own spin on the 'verse, and I would like to see someone making an RP and discussing the underlying design facets of their militaries, the geographies of their nation, and underlining some more national history. Show, don't tell and all that.

The application of naval power. I'm a nautical fan at heart, and there's nothing I love more than a system that allows wooden ships and iron men to blaze away at each other and showcases the effects and problems of a strong naval war system. Similarly, air power is a very good selling point to me, but I simply regard land war as boring without a powerful naval and/or air system to spice it up.

Logical, serious, realistic(in-universe) nations that do things that MAKE SENSE. Nations that establish clear foreign policies and determine how they'll follow them, don't make exceptions for some other nations but not others, and who generally have a personality beyond that of their player.

A simple, yet challenging economy. I don't want to micromanage resources(take that MP3) because I have more serious things to worry about in my life than an IOT's economy, but nor do I want a cruelly simple economy prone to exploits. IOTE2's was a bit on the simple end for what I'm talking about. Easy to learn, hard to master, is I guess the point.

What I Loathe:

BAD Roleplay. Like, the kind that only is in it for the RP points, is incredibly biased, serves no purpose to expand and/or flesh out the world, or is comprised mostly of pictures and one-off statements. An RP with good characters, thoughts, and such as its core can incorporate pictures or a desire for RP points, but without internal logic, a more neutral demeanor, and a perspective on what the world is like - it doesn't even have to be a character-driven RP - it's just glorified fanwank, and that gets on my nerves.

A military system that's clearly only an afterthought, especially naval. Systems that treat navies like they're just transports for armies, because of course armies do the heavy lifting, or systems where the economy or the roleplaying is well developed but the armies are accidentally or deliberately made unusable. I *like* my hard power to be effective when it comes down to it, even if I do like soft power as well, and there are far too many IOTs lately that treat hard power like it's a disease.

Espionage. Absolutely freaking HATE it. Nuff said.

Stupid nations. Nations that make no sense. Nations that are clearly just avatars of the player. Nations that the same player has played in the same spot many times beforehand. All of those things are guaranteed to make steam come from my ears. A nation that makes sense has its own internal logic and is more than just a tool for the player to use in order to "win" the game. And for those of you who argue that the player's personality is inherently going to leak over and be his nation's personality, I have over a hundred characters in my head right now who are completely at odds with each other and myself. It's not hard to actually ROLEPLAY if people get off their butts and give a crap about playing the game instead of just shooting everything.

An economic system that feels like a college course on the subject. I didn't come to study free market systems vs. state control, I came to roleplay a nation and let my ministers work out the detail work of that. I want to make RPs, I want to threaten NPCs with soft power, I want to make clients, I want to deploy my fleets to threaten trade lanes, I want to interact with nations that actually make sense and follow in-universe logic. I don't want to adjust stocks, bonds, investments, and allow for income derivations while trying to prevent an economic recession. I get enough of that planning for my life after I move out with my girlfriend.

And above all else: shoddy GMing. GMs with bias, GMs with stupid rules, GMs more interested in defending their rulesets than in fixing problems, GMs who want to play their own games so much they make a GMPC and use OOC knowledge to rule the game, and especially GMs without the backbone to kick problem players. A game is only as strong as the GM - I've had object lessons in that before. A weak-willed GM will cause even a wonderful ruleset and great players to spiral into absolute anarchy and chaos before long.

These are, of course, just my thoughts. But they're what I look for in games. In other news, considering starting IOTCW2 here very soon.

-L

I agree with almost all of this. I personally love espionage, but all the systems that have been tried here just don't work, to be honest. I don't know what would, but we need a good espionage system.
 
Yes, it takes more effort to make a nation that is formed in almost every game than an original creation.

Compare this

Spoiler :

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images
The old man was dejected.

Not only had some of his close friends betrayed him, but they convinced a majority of the nations in the world to declare war on the Great Kingdom. The only true ally to the King was France, who was also now at war with the world. While a few nations stood on the sidelines, not wanting to get in the middle of what was sure to be an ugly fight; most of the world was now at war.

What disappointed King Mswati the most was that it didn’t have to be this way.

While the betrayal and subsequent declaration of war on his Kingdom was a surprise the King had done all in his power to prevent a war from actually breaking out. Even though the stated reasons for the war were false and designed to mislead and cover up the real motivations, he had tried to answer the critics.

He even went so far as to offer to freely give up more than half of his kingdom. Just to avert war.

Unfortunately the voices for war were too strong in the enemy. No reason, or logic or public shaming for their falsehoods and betrayal would suffice. There was to be war.

This would not be an easy fight. The enemy could bring overwhelming forces to battle, and recent gains on the Continent by the UNA created a weak point in the defenses of the Kingdom. But the Kingdom must be protected at all costs. Our position in the world must remain. We must challenge and defeat the forces of betrayal and greed.

Regardless of where the enemy attacked the Swazi forces would be ready to stand. All portions of the Kingdom must be protected if the Kingdom was to survive. Great emphasis was placed on raising grand armies to defend the lands of the King. The King even went so far as to require all men and women of fighting age to mobilize for this war by decreeing that all men 16 and older must join their local militia or the National army. Not that he needed to do that, as the lines at the recruiting stations were larger than anyone had expected. The people were solidly behind their king in this time of grave danger.

He just hoped that he would have the energy and stamina to rise up and not fail his people. His people were ready for the hard times ahead. But was the King?

With this

The Foundation condemns Namibia and Canada for its actions. Manx rightly owns these lands. Canada also is threatening the territorial sovereignty of their western counterpart. You also are trying to threaten them with embargo, and then threathen them with war if they refuse in the same act. Namibia, you are trying to support such actions, after having tried to embargo New Zealand, for a stupid reason.

we do not condemn the clinets of Namibia, for they did not get a choice in the matter.
We do not force Colombia to condem these 2, but we do highly encourage it.



Sure, spies at PEACETIME can be powerful, but once the guns fire, I think they should be next to pointless. And I hate how spies are becoming the be-all end-all of IOT power. Economics and militaries should > spies every time, with spies only useful for basically light raiding and intelligence collection, not being the #1 aspect of your nation's power.
-L

The importance of intelligence increases during war, not decrease. The Pacific and Atlantic theater of World War 2 were won partially through codebreakers figuring out Japanese planning for Midway and the code that guided German U-boats in the Pacific.
 
I like IOTs with RP thats systematic, sort of like I&B4, with an arranged timeline, ordered wiki and chat. I dont like too many rules. I also like fun....fun is nice.
 
My main goal was to take over MY ALLY the DR in order to have access to the sea and create a naval fleet to invade Hawaii, my main enemy.

It was India that made the regional war a World War. Since I could not win, I signed a fake peace treaty, destroyed India and when I was doomed for a second time, I selled my country to Oz, nuked Hawaii and then re-joined as NGO and retook China.

As to why I won, it was not because of powergame, but because Oz divided China into too many states. That made Xinjiang weak and allowed me to coup those states AND COME OUT OF THE BLUE WITH CHINA THROUGH INSTA-UNIFICATION and invade Xinjiang IN THE VERY SAME TURN IN WHICH I CAME OUT OF THE BLUE. Had Oz kept China united, then I would have not been able to retake it.
Edited a bit to keep it true, and because the first two aren't infamous actions at all and because the third one would have been allowed by any sane GM.

Anyways, what do I like? I like that things be relatively simple, that there isn't a huge amount of number-crunching, I mean. A good map always helps a lot, and I like settings with limitations.
 
Those territories were originally under the Xinjiangi Emperor... as only a few years had passed it's not unreasonable they wouldn't mind reconstitution. Christos was able to "invade the same turn he came out of the blue" because all those countries were already his the turn of the invasion.

BUT ANYWAY.

I've justified the action more than once and if it's not satisfactory there's really nothing else I can say.

Interesting answers over all, folks!

I guess the old question is. Do you like working with more intricate numbers or more abstract values?
 
Intricate numbers with the ability to participate in the numbers as much or as little as one wants.
 
I'll say my most favourite IOTs: SonRISK2, MP1 and the third I'm gonna say the short-lived I&B2. Take it as you want.
 
I guess the old question is. Do you like working with more intricate numbers or more abstract values?

Depends on my mood really. I'm happy with both most of the time.
 
Infighting, personality conflicts, hurt feelings and backstabs, I just don't see the appeal of IOT games.

This.

I won't bother to get too much into the discussion, not being a vetern of the games. But for me the politics and people are the main enjoyment. True, war or economics may carry a game forward and provide means to play. But the soul of a game comes from your friends and rivals.
 
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