Independence Day

[stuge]

Heh, you're right, craziemischief. The Great Lighthouse would definetly benefit us, what with all of our planned 6 cities being coastal. But I think that the Colossus would benefit us more and with our limited production potential, we're going to have a hard time snagging both.

Of course, if there are no greater priorities, free cash won't hurt.

 

[remconius]

Only bad thing about great lighthouse is that it doesnt go obsolete till corporation. If we gift it to the AI, it will give them a great boost.

 

[pigswill]

Seems like we're having debates about wonders but not too much else. I agree with remconius that we need to boost our military, we also have three more cities to establish and a bit of infrastructure in existing cities so I'm not sure how quick we'll start building wonders. I'm seriously considering going wonder-free in the old world but we'll see how it goes.
Tech-wise start with writing then metal-casting, I think we should debate tech choices off the beeline between sets.
Go to 15 turns per set from now on.
I'll be playing a bit later this evening.

Edit: had a quick look at the save; as expected we're trailing in power which needs addressing soonest. I'm wondering if granaries are a priority in cities where we're not planning on multiple whips. It's a different kind of game at this stage, normally you wouldn't hesitate about builds for long term benefits but we'd be giving long term benefits to someone else. Worth considering that anything that produces culture disappears when a city is captured so obelisks and libraries are safe to build.

Edit: Real Life Interference: won't be able to play tonight. Tomorrow should be ok.

 

[remconius]

In the test games I did I did not build anything, except lighthouses. Granaries have a benefit, but are hardly worth it. We dont want the AI to grow our whipped cities of size 1 back fast.

I agree we should not build many/any things for long term. We do need to build a bunch of swordsmen and axemen to take over the new world. A few galleys to start exploring. A wonder is nice but I'd rather show up in the new world with 4 extra axemen

 

[Craziivan]

we could let the computer raze our cities instead of gifting them, especially cities with wonders

OR: gift them, declare, raze them by ourselves

 

[pigswill]

As discussed above changed River Gems from granary to workboat; workboat to head south to Marblecow or Southfish when built (if it gets trapped by japan's borders then it's a bad move on my part). Several turns where nothing happened (hence gaps in report).

955. Desertfish builds workboat, starts settler.

940. Discover sailing, research writing.
Desertfish changes to lighthouse for growth.

910. Riceport builds worker, starts axe.

895. Monte converts to Buddhism.

880. Desertfish pop 2, reverts to building settler.
Barbarian warrior appears in south.

865. Stonehenge BIDL

850.Warrior defeats barb warrior; injured.

820. Discover writing, start metal-casting.

805. Riceport builds axe, starts barracks.

775. Gems mined, start to grow Riceport.

A map of the south.

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A map of the north (edo founded)

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A look at demographics. Doing ok for commerce; rest a bit behind.

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A save:

 

[remconius]

Cool! We plan to focus on commerce and we are number 1!
And by a long way. We have 50% more than the number 2.

This should really help us, especially if we can get a few GS to speed us along even more.

 

[stuge]

Aww, no granaries for poor little stuge. Sniff.

Okay, y'all make a good point. Let's keep the old world simple, a tribute to the working class. (Which will eventually pack up and leave. )
Just got to quell the builder's instinct.

I think that after MC we should pick up literature, settle Marblecows and get started on the Great Library there. Meanwhile, Riceport could get busy on the Colossus. And then build the G. Lighthouse in Desertfish and ... (At this point, the inner builder gets slapped. Hard.)

Well, you're next up Craziivan, so it's up to your judgement whether or not our situation can support wonder-hogging.

 

[remconius]

Roster
pigswill (just played)
Craziivan <--Up Next
remconius <-- On deck
stuge

Probably good to post an updated roster at the end of your turn log.

 

[remconius]

Note on the save:

River gems could work lake instead of plains.
Desertfish could work coast instead of forest. Settler can be finished with chop and whip.
This shaves quite a few turns off MC.
Worker in North should build a cottage on the river bananas next.

 

[Craziivan]

I've got the save and will play Friday evening, maybe very late

 

[pigswill]

I'm a bit concerned about the size of our army; even though the AIs' armies consist mainly of garrisoned archers we still appear weak which is not good when surrounded by aggressive AIs.

Worth considering whipping settler in Desertfish as soon as we can.

 

[remconius]

Good point, pigswill. We dont want to seem oversized and underpowered with Alexander and Tokugawa on our doorstep.

What I was wondering, should we stick with 4 cities?

I dont think we need to expand to 6 cities, it would cost quite a lot of time to make more settlers and the last 2 cities would hardly have time to grow. While building settlers we would halt growth that could be better spent trying to generate GS. Also with 6 cities we would seem more bloated than with 4 I reckon.

Other problem with building more cities is that they need to build an obilisk and grow borders before they become useful at all. And they would increase maintenance.

I would like to suggest the following plan:
Capital
-Build library, dedicate 2 scientist and continue to make units/galleys.

River Gems
Cottage both bananas. Build a lighthouse and focus on commerce. Produce units afterwards.

Desertfish
Doesnt even need an obilisk, but could use a lighthouse. It could just build units and work a few cottages and coastal squares.

Cowscity
We could build our 4th city near the cows, build a library while working the cows. That will generate commerce so we can work the fish with the workboat from Rivergems. We can also assign two scientists here and generate another GS.

If we want a city to stop growing, eventhough it has a food surplus, we could build a couple of workers to bring to the new world.

 

[pigswill]

Riceport I think should be our main production centre;fish, rice, iron, 2 cottaged plains, 2 plains hills. Foodwise gives us 5+4+2+2+0+2=15 at pop7 so need to work on removing odd number; production wise gives us 4+2+8+1=15 hammers/turn.

Rivergems: gems, 2 cottaged bananas,lake=2+6+2+2=12 food which is indeed enough to run a library and 2 scientists at pop 6, wouldn't need a lighthouse.

Desertfish could run a lighthouse and library;fish(6f),2 water(4f)(+2f for city); 12 food at 3 pop, could run 2 scientists and build workers.

Marblecow gets marble, cow and fish; needs an obelisk; can't remember tile output from either cows or marble so have to think on that.

Ricelake would almost certainly run at a profit; it would also give us spare rice for trade (preferably for a luxury).

Healthwise shouldn't be too many probs with rice, cow, fish and clams. Happy wise we run at base 4, 1 for gems (capital gets +1 for palace of course), if we could trade for 2 luxuries we could run cities at pop 7 without having to divert to monarchy; this assumes that we ain't running a state religion which seems unlikely at this point.
In terms of going for Colossus we could think about commerce potential of coast vs cottages. Coast obviously starts 3c compared to 1c for cottage, after 15 turns get hamlet for 3c, then wait 30 turns for village for 4c. Colossus gives up 4c for coast immediately but looking at forge and colossus (400 hammers at epic?); minor happy boost for forge, GM points (but we'd have to MM GPP to get a GM); downside is that for the same hammers we could build eg 6 axes and 2 galleys. Not a straightforward decision.

 

[stuge]

Our military is indeed thin, but fortunately our lands are easy to defend. Stack 4-6 axes in Rivergems and don't worry about Toku. If we can cultivate Cyrus as an ally, our eastern border is quite safe too. I don't think he has ever attacked me only when he's been annoyed already.

It's sort of a blessing that we drew tihs bunch of psychos as our neighbours. Our research is bound to plummet during the Migration and it could get ugly if the Old World was full of peacenicks like Mansa and Gandhi, teching towards their spaceships.

BTW, I agree on making Riceport the production centre.

 

[Craziivan]

do you really think we can conquer the new World with axes?
or will we have the cash to upgrade
maybe the barbarians will have longbows when we arrive and we can conquer nothing ^^

 

[remconius]

I think we should make a tech sidestep to discover alphabet and currency. Then we can trade for cash and get all money around

 

[pigswill]

Or else go for alphabet after metal-casting and see what we can get in trades for metal-casting; should be able to pick up maths and monarchy, if no-one has alphabet may be able to trade for currency and calendar the next turn but we'll have to see.

 

[Craziivan]

my turns were not very busy, just some whipping and infrastructure

Turn 0, 775 BC
Research: Metal Casting in 25 (oracle would have really saved commerce points here )
micro manage to 21 as suggested (but not without thinking about it myself)

Turn 5, 700 BC
Rivergems builds workboat which starts its journey to the south
start a lighthouse
Desertfish is whipped

Turn 6, 685 BC
Genghis Khan asks for open borders, I deny for now
Desertfish builds settler -> lighthouse

Turn 8, 655 BC
Riceport: barracks->library
our workboat spots another fish near the desert island, how useless (at least for us)

Turn 9, 640 BC
Cowboy city founded

Turn 10, 625 BC
yet another fish for the desert island, is it worth considering? The worst fact is that the ai can't reach it to take it

Turn 11, 610 BC
Riceport grows to size 6, its current happiness cap

Turn 15, 550 BC
we are last in score, first in GNP with Cyrus catching up slowly, but I don't think we have any real tech lead, (maybe after we discover alphabet)

you can see that we already have border encroachment from Pasargade, next player should consider opening borders with Kyrus

I put a new sign for rice2 where the city would be useful earlier but we would have to clear some jungle

I am not confident about getting a wonder, I hope we can get enough production for Colossus(1 commerce per water tile->better for science) or Great lighthouse(2 commerce per city->better for producing things)

 

[stuge]

Good turns.

I think we're pretty well set in an accepted course. Only one comment about our situation.

Desertfish needs culture BADLY. It has only 8 tiles left in it's first ring. Rem, you're up next so get a library up there and perhaps even an obelisk if there are no other priorities.