India changes?

I think they'll likely get a small change in that the unhappiness doesn't take effect until the city grows a bit.

If a city has to have, say, 4 pop before you get the doubled unhappiness, it would allow India to expand and avoid growth to found cities, as well as delay unhappiness from unchecked city growth, AND really dampen the penalty.

Wouldn't that be a just a bit antithetical to the very name of the UA? Parameters that would have you curb population growth on a UA named Population Growth wouldn't make much sense.
 
Wouldn't that be a just a bit antithetical to the very name of the UA? Parameters that would have you curb population growth on a UA named Population Growth wouldn't make much sense.

Well, as it stands, the best use of the UA is being a warmonger and taking well developed cities, causing them to benefit more, faster from the UA.

At least a change that would allow India a choice of growing or not would involve eventually growing your cities, rather than never founding them to start with.

The simple solution would be to simply remove the extra unhappiness, but that could instantly make India the best civ in the game. There needs to be some downside to that much extra happiness, and the long term "bonus" unhappiness results in a decently big difference in how tall Indian cities can potentially get.

Early and late balance concerns would demand the existence of the extra unhappiness at some point.
 
What about:

'half the unhappiness from number of population, plus 50% unhappiness from number of cities, gain one culture, faith and unhappiness from each minority religion in your cities'

portraits both the positive and the negative with indias diversity.
 
What about:

'half the unhappiness from number of population, plus 50% unhappiness from number of cities, gain one culture, faith and unhappiness from each minority religion in your cities'

portraits both the positive and the negative with indias diversity.

Why unhapiness for minority religions?
 
Hindu - Muslim violence, big problem for a long time, but maybe that is to controversial and not fun. though could be intresting to be given a choice, purge enemy religions for reducing unhappiness or enjoy free extra culture and faith
 
That idea could make some people very angry. There's been religious violence in man other places, not just India. It's not exactly unique in that aspect.
But something along the lines of bonuses for multiple religions would make sense and could fair, if done the right way.
 
They said it was miner so I think they are removing the per city penalty and reducing the benefit. Something like:
UA: - 25% unhappiness from citizens.

Only minor compared to France (which is getting a new UA *and* a new UI-& losing a UU in the process-that is a massive change).

Aussie.
 
India isn't so bad though, you just have to keep small right? I haven't really been paying attention to Brave New World up until now, but doesn't Venice have a negative ability too? Why is India's drawback bigger than Venice's? I only ask because from what I've seen so far, people like Venice a lot.
 
Ability to cash rush things in puppets is a major advantage. Its almost as good as a self controlled city, but without having to build several buildings in the new city before your next national wonder.

In addition, one of the techs gives them their replacement to Merchant that allows their first city state buyout. And I know how many Great Scientists I've manually built in a normal game (not counting the ones from wonders) and figure I could spawn the same number of replacement to merchants if I wanted.
I'm calculationing between the free one and running merchant slots getting three of those before the Industrial era starts. Several more afterwards.

Or course, if Austria happens to be in the same game, then Austria could preempt Venice's buyout by marrying first. (Assuming that they fix the Austria AA to start marrying again; which appeared to have been accidentally broken by the fall patch)
 
If any civ needs an overhaul, it's India. They are unanimously the worst civ in the game, and their ability is a penalty until late in the game; by that point, you've probably already lost due to the UA's penalty aspect.

I personally think it is Japan who is worst or at least undoubtedly mediocre.
 
As it is, Japan is a good civ (UA is great when used properly, Samurai can get blitz or charge much earlier), Zero can definitely use an upgrade, or replacement.

Compared to India, who will have a happiness penalty early on (when it is harder to get), and a happiness buff late game (when it is pretty easy to get), doesn't work well. In addition to a very mediocre UB (culture on a building you only build in some cities, compared to Siams Wat, and gold bonus late game), and a UU which is useful for defense, but worse than useless when upgrading (and ranged promotions carry over, massive penalty to future promotion rate).
 
So India's UA works like this
For a non India nation:
3 Unhappiness for founding a city. The Unhappiness due to population is due to the size of the city.

For India:
6 Unhappiness for founding a city. The unhappiness due to population is due to the HALF the size of the city.

Thus a size 10 Indian city yields 6+5 unhappiness whereas a size 10 any other nation city yields 3 +10 unhappiness. In fact after your city reaches past size 7 you benefit greatly from the UA. Problem is on a sparse resource or landlocked map India has to expand reallllly slowly. Also capturing a city u pretty much have to be able to buy a courthouse. Also obviously slowing down REX (rapid early expansion). Its VERY profitable to go WIDE as India to but it takes great knowledge of policies, city planning, and hoping teh land is still free.

Benefit? It pays in the long major dividends. Your happiness is insanely good.

Personally I think India needs a faith bonus like the celts. Its a spiritual country.

BUT DEFINTIELY a better Unit. I think a UU like Gorkha Rifles (Indian regiment under the british flag that served in WWI and WWII and in the army today). Or just any better unit frankly lol. The war elephant is really weak and gets outdated fast and DOESNT have the "feared elephant bonus" that the Carthage Elephant has. WTH?

Otherwise I think since in civ4 it had a religion bonus India should get one. I like the idea of +1 faith/gold/culture for minority religions in cities.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the only change India receives is a Tourism bonus for Mughal Forts once they research Flight. Though I'd really like to see some change to India's UA.
 
...
and a UU which is useful for defense, but worse than useless when upgrading (and ranged promotions carry over, massive penalty to future promotion rate).
Ugh man what are you talking about. WE is an amazing unit, it's as strong as a CB, it costs less and it comes 2 techs earlier and it has 3 moves - meaning it can enter hill or forest tile and shoot. That's huge, and WE is easily one of the best UUs in game.
Any start with Gandhi is kinda wasted if you don't take over the closest AI or two.
You can thash 2-3 more neighbours with Elephants than you could with CB or CA. Why would you want to upgrade it, definitely not worth it before you can get logistics cavalry.
 
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