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India Total Peaceful Photojournal

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Minh Le, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Tell me, whats special on your India game? You picked a very growth oriented civ and played it... like every other.... your cities have the same size as other nations cities.
    30 excess food in capital and 14 turns till the next growth isnt anything worth mentioning.
     
  2. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    What is special is how he used his strengths and weaknesses in order to achieve desireable result (which is to win the game). Decision making
     
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  3. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    You know how you keep losing as India and claiming the civ is bad/impossible? He's winning while playing suboptimally because of special rules. (Could have puppetted some cities from Polynesia and Korea.) That's so special!

    Instead of growing uselessly huge, he used the extra food to work more specialists. This means that he basically turned the food into science and culture.
     
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  4. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Who said Iam losing? When did I said India is bad?
    He was able to found a religion thanks to the pantheon start and feeding more specialists thanks to the harappan reservoir. But when does he really use the follower related ability? His capital is generating 32 excess food at 25 city size. If he have 20 follower in his city, this would mean he has 27 base excess food and 5 extra food by the followers. Thats neglegible. I saw a chinese city which was 6 citizen bigger than his ones. Sure, china is a growth oriented civ, but india is it too, but his cities have the same size as other nations cities too, like korea or polynesia.
    Is a secondary city above 20 size already uselessly huge? Did china already grow their cities to a needless huge size with 23?
    Your comment and his play, also the always good performing china shows, gaining food is a greatly help, but growth (the modifier) isnt. If you try to use growth related part of indias ability, you have to sacrifice other yields and have to face additionally some problems with happiness. I didnt wonder he isnt facing big happiness problems, such a small population is really easy to handle.
     
  5. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    But whats the point of having big population? Growing population for the sake of growing even more population does not make any sense, population does not win you the game
     
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  6. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Chieftain

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    A bit of a nitpick, but the secondary city that could work on the village could be working on the manufactory instead. I simply can't stand to see a GPTI unworked...

    Anyway, I actually think your city management is wonderful because it shows efficiency. You're working everything that contributes towards your overall empire and only that. I actually play less efficient than you do, like for example I'd only usually work the Specialists once I have the exceptionally high yielding tiles like that Plantation and the Manufactory worked. I focus on highest yields first and foremost. You focus more directly on output yields/Specialists (Culture, Science, Great Scientists) and don't place as much value on those tiles (I basically do what my intutition tells me to do, and try to make sure I have enough of all yields). Like my intuition, while not as extreme as BiteInTheMark's, would be to get Cathedrals and work more of those Farms, basically ignore Villages, focus on the synergy. I am now realizing that's not the best idea.

    You have Mastery/Artistry and you're using them well.
     
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  7. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Nobody speaks of growing for the sake of growing. But more population triggers more often birth based effects (like progress opener or finisher), enable you to work more tiles, gives you more military cap, greater ability to support your specialists, gives more yields from population based buildings, gives more yields from follower beliefs and in case of indias UA, more growth and more pressure. So, why shouldnt I aim for such benefits?
    He has/will win cause of the complete inability of the AI to do a proper attack. 17 units in modern era while beeing attacked several times from 2 sides, no chance to hold this vs a human. And Iam for sure his major culture and science output in midgame came from trade routes with china.

    But in this case, the major question is.... Why playing a civilization with a growth and population based UA, if growing is a bad play?
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Spoiler A Comprehensive Guide to Playing India :
    Do the opposite of whatever Bite in the Mark suggests
     
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  9. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    India UA is wonderful because my cities can still growth very fast with like 30 excess food. Which is impossible with any other civ.
    If its not India, to get a 25 pop capital at that time, I must sacrify at least 4 or 5 specialist slot. Which mean less engineers, less scientists, less wonders..
    AI in VP is not bad, they kick my ass from time to time. I just play extra carefully.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
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  10. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    I guess It would have worked. Im really bad with Congress. I dont know what to do with it other than having some diplo bonus when I propose something people like :)
    IMO, the manufactory is not a good tile at all. I make it just because I dont have anything to rush at this time and it will boost my future rush. I value production like this: if I work this tile, how many turns I can save on my current project? In this case working the manufactory in my capital save 0 turn on my Archaeologist, while working it in Varanasi can save me only one turn of the Public School I believe.
    17 Renaissance Units my friend :lol:. That's how OP elephant is. If your major culture and science come from trade routes, you will forever stay behind, with no Wonders, and that would mean a game lost. My major science and culture output is from poping Great Scientist and Great Writer. Half my trade routes now go to Morocco for gold, half is Food/Production to where needed and I make my TRs pass all the villages.
     
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  11. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Here's another update:
    Spoiler Execute the plan :
    One turn left on Biology, I bought a Writer with faith so I could pop him next turn. China got Ideology the exact same turn as me. I pick Avant Garde. With this Tenet and the Rationalism Finisher, I get 66% bonus to great scientist rate, its huge, I will get a lot of scientists after that. I started the wonder right away, I have a great engineer ready for it. 38.jpg 39.jpg 42.jpg 43.jpg

    Spoiler Next stop :
    Next stop is Corporations. I want to unlock my Franchise ASAP. 41.jpg

    Spoiler Peace :
    :) 44.jpg 45.jpg

    Spoiler Doing thing a little differently :
    Next Congress Session. Im really bad with Congress and casting my votes. I dont want world religion and Scholars in residence, so I vote nay. Unfortunately, Scholars in residence pass, Im trying to repel it now. 75.jpg 78.jpg

    Spoiler Status of Liberty :
    I got the wonder. Noone even have the tech yet. My play style involve lots of specialists, so this is a very nice wonder to have. 80.jpg

    10 pics. I will continues next post.
     
  12. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Spoiler Next tenet :
    Civil Society is no brainer. This tenet alone could save me huge amount of food. 81.jpg

    Spoiler Next plan :
    After Corporations, I go for Plastics because of Research Lab, then Flight for some Triplane to defend, my elephant cannot carry me forever. Eiffel is still there :), its a little regret I didnt go for it, but now its a little too late I think. 84.jpg

    Spoiler Superfarms :
    With aggribusiness, I have 12 food farms :)... Its crazy. I can work many useful things thanks to those farms. And my cities still growing fast. 87.jpg

    Spoiler 8th scientist :
    8th was born in Varanasi, the first scientist born in my secondary city. Yay. I will have many more soon. 88.jpg

    Spoiler Eiffel :
    Well, Eiffel is still there. Im so tempted to build it. But Im sure many other civs got the tech for a while now, and I have more important things to do. So I decided to use my Engineer on Giorgio instead. 89.jpg 90.jpg

    Spoiler Spies :
    I use the same strategy with other spies. I send them as diplomat first to gain level, then send them to city states around me. Having some allied city states is nice. 92.jpg

    Spoiler Vote for myself :
    Why not? Im a respectable world tech leader now :lol:. 97.jpg

    Spoiler 9th scientist :
    9th was born in Agra. I get alot of scientists and engineers. Scientist will be poped right away while engineer go to my capital and sit there waiting for something to rush. 100.jpg

    Spoiler Deciding what to aim for :
    Its totally Gandhi thing right :lol:. There is no useful thing to rush when advance to Atomic, so I decided to go for Atomic Theory and get the first nuke. I didnt plan on using it but I think it will scare my neighbour of constantly declaring war on me. 101.jpg

    10 pics, I will continues in next post....
     
  13. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Spoiler This guy.... :
    I wonder should I nuke this guy for fun? It doesnt go against the rule right? 102.jpg

    Spoiler Repeling Scholars in residence :
    That the worst thing for me as Im ahead now. I cast all my votes on repeling that. Luckily, I was successfully repel that. Now I propose Cultural heritage site one more time. 106.jpg 108.jpg

    Spoiler Steal some artifacts :
    Carthage and The Celt are both go Fealty, so I still can steal some hidden sites from them. This give me quite nice culture boost. 107.jpg 109.jpg

    Spoiler lv2 tenet :
    I actually unlocked it on turn 387, but forgot to show it. Here it is. I pick universal healthcare. Free hospital is very nice. With those archaeologist dig and Writer pop, I was able to advance policy with a crazy speed. My 2 next tenets are on turn 396 and 403. My mouse is hovering Creative Expression but Im pretty sure I picked covert action and Universal Sufferage. 98.jpg 110.jpg 117.jpg

    Spoiler 10th scientist :
    10th was born in my capital. All other cities are still building research lab. 114.jpg

    Spoiler Korea in trouble :
    Morocco decided to attack Korea. Korea is very weak now. Hes an era behind of everyone. I dont think he can survive this. 120.jpg

    10 pics...
     
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  14. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Spoiler Smart dude :
    He's smart, Im about to have my nuke and if hes still at war with me hes gonna be my test subject. 122.jpg

    Spoiler 11th scientist :
    11th in Mumbai. Im very far ahead now. 124.jpg

    Spoiler Congress :
    Kongo is right next to me. I want to ally it, so all my votes go to nay. Notthing useful to propose, I repel Iroquois sphere of influence. 125.jpg 126.jpg

    Spoiler A tip for using Great Diplomat :
    If you already know it then just ignore it. But I give a tiny tip here. You can check whether you can place Embassy in city state by hover your mouse on its name like this. If it possible then it will be a green line say Embassy is available instead of Embassy already established. I used all previous Diplomat to creat embassy, but its not possible anymore so I just use him to get Kongo back. 127.jpg

    Spoiler Lv3 tenet :
    This is the last thing I need from Freedom. I will unlock State Craft on my next Policy. 129.jpg

    Spoiler Stockpile engineers :
    My capital has notthing left to build so I build Cristo. Im very far ahead so I can get it even if I didnt spend anything. But I have some more Engineers soon so I guess It doesnt hurt if I use one now. 130.jpg

    Spoiler Got Cristo :
    I can win Tourism if I want to now :). But I will do science as planed. 131.jpg

    Spoiler Korea in BIG trouble :
    He lost his capital already. Im now sharing border with Morocco, hes growing fast too, now hes second behind me, China starting to lag behind. I have enough oil, so I buy triplanes with gold in my capital. 18 triplanes will be enough for defense. 133.jpg
    Spoiler 12th scientist :
    12th scientist in VIJAJAJAJAJAJA. Poping this one get me to Atomic Era. Its crazy, no one even advance to Modern yet :). 134.jpg

    10 pics....
     
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  15. Galbias

    Galbias Chieftain

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    I almost feel sorry for Korea. With no religion you can't Faith-buy GP (on top of losing all your religious benefits), it's the most annoying thing.

    Hospitals always seemed kind of weak to me relative to how much they cost. They don't give you a % carryover of Food like some other buildings. The Poverty reduction can be important though and India probably has enough extra Food that the Food to Science effect is a bit better than normal.
     
  16. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Spoiler GANDHI GOT THE NUKE :
    Yeah, Gandhi got the nuke now!!!!!!! 136.jpg

    Spoiler Next stop :
    Its pretty obvious. I go straight to Bletchley Park. 137.jpg

    Spoiler This is very annoying :
    I have open border with Morocco and that prick constantly pillage my INTERNAL trade routes. Its so annoying. The lesson here is dont give him open border. 139.jpg

    Spoiler Scholars in resident again :
    NAY please! I really dont know what to do with my proposal now :crazyeye:.... 142.jpg 143.jpg

    Spoiler 13th scientist :
    In Pataliputra. 145.jpg

    Spoiler I remember it wrong :
    I actually picked Creative Expression last time :crazyeye:, I guess Im drunk. Now I pick Covert Action and do some Coup. 148.jpg 149.jpg

    Spoiler Next stop :
    Satelites very obviously. Im an Era ahead of everyone now :). 150.jpg

    Spoiler Bletchley Park :
    Got it without much effort. Im snowball too hard now :). From now on I just click next turn to my victory. 153.jpg

    That's it for now. I will update more later to count the scientists. Winning is inevitable now :).
    Total number of Scientist: 13.
     
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  17. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    At this point, game is almost win already. I will just pick the most important events and count the scientists now.
    Spoiler 14th scientist :
    14th in Calcuta. 9 turns left for the 15th :). 155.jpg

    Spoiler Nay the United Nation :
    :crazyeye: I really dont know what to do with this. 163.jpg

    Spoiler How my cities look like :
    4 farms to feed 19 Specialists :).... Its crazy.... India exclusive. 165.jpg

    Spoiler 15th Scientist :
    Bangalore score the 15th. Oh and my friend Polynessia is playing with me :). He's giving my triplane some experience :). 166.jpg

    Spoiler The last tech queue. :
    Im 14 techs ahead of the second best :), so there's no need for very careful planning now. Just grab all the tech before CERN then use it 2 free tech to get Globalization and Nuclear Fusion and buy the parts. And since Im so far ahead all the wonders are mine too :), even those I dont really need. 171.jpg

    Spoiler 16th scientist :
    16th guy comes from APOLLO. 172.jpg

    Spoiler 17th scientist :
    17th was born in Lahore. 175.jpg

    Spoiler Unused faith :
    I just realize I have over 40k unused faith :). So I auto buy more Scientist. It would reduce some of my Next turn button. 181.jpg

    Spoiler 18th scientist :
    This one is faith purchased. 183.jpg

    10 pics!
     

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  18. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Spoiler 19th scientist :
    My capital scores the 19th. 187.jpg

    Spoiler Hubble completed :
    Thats 2 more Scientist - 20th and 21st. 197.jpg

    Spoiler 22nd scientist :
    This guy is faith purchased. 202.jpg

    Spoiler Great Firewall :
    Wonders are built without contest :). 207.jpg

    Spoiler 23rd scientist :
    This guy is also faith purchased. 210.jpg

    Spoiler 24th Scientist :
    This is my last scientist. He was born in Varanasi. Oh its actually one more, the 25th is just purchased by faith in my capital. 3 engineers sit there ready for CERN. 214.jpg

    Spoiler CERN :
    CERN is built. Then some more boring turns of purchase and launch the parts. I got my science victory at turn 507, 1917AD. A very snowballing late game. 217.jpg 218.jpg

    I got total of 25 scientists in the game. Each of my secondary cities contribute at least one scientist (2 was born in Varanasi). Im sure I have much more scientists than a Tradition 4 cities, at least 5 more, not to mention my city produce lots of science. Im almost 2 eras ahead of the second civ at the end.
    Some though about it after complete the game:
    - India is a very strong, well designed civ. It has strong advantage in very early game, and in late game. If I didnt have the +1 culture from the begining, my settling speed would be delay a lot, at least 20 turns, and also no Pyramids for sure, that would mean 2 less cities, and my progress gonna be 20% slower than this. The advantage in the late game is very clear. My capital hit 47 pops at the end without focusing on food at all. And as Ive showed, I can feed 19 Specialists with only 4 farms :crazyeye:.... Its crazy strong, not to mention the passive pressure bully my neighbour so hard, they dont have any extra faith to spend on GPs.
    - Progress clearly beats Tradition in Science, no more doubt about this, both in raw science output and in the amount of Scientists generated.
    - Defensive cities location plays a huge part in the game.
    The game is most interesting in Medieval and Renaissance when I have to think very carefully about each of my descisions. Later, I just snowball so hard it becomes boring. I hope you guys enjoy this and I hope some of my information, tips and numbers are useful for you :D.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  19. Grassland Farm

    Grassland Farm Chieftain

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    Le mighty motherland France
    Grats! I'm still struggling on King myself...
     
  20. airbse

    airbse Chieftain

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    Great photo journal. Thanks for your effort to write all this down. Enjoyed it a lot!
     

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