Tell me, whats special on your India game? You picked a very growth oriented civ and played it... like every other.... your cities have the same size as other nations cities.
30 excess food in capital and 14 turns till the next growth isnt anything worth mentioning.
Tell me, whats special on your India game? You picked a very growth oriented civ and played it... like every other.... your cities have the same size as other nations cities.
30 excess food in capital and 14 turns till the next growth isnt anything worth mentioning.
Tell me, whats special on your India game? You picked a very growth oriented civ and played it... like every other.... your cities have the same size as other nations cities.
30 excess food in capital and 14 turns till the next growth isnt anything worth mentioning.
You know how you keep losing as India and claiming the civ is bad/impossible? He's winning while playing suboptimally because of special rules. (Could have puppetted some cities from Polynesia and Korea.) That's so special!
Instead of growing uselessly huge, he used the extra food to work more specialists. This means that he basically turned the food into science and culture.
You know how you keep losing as India and claiming the civ is bad/impossible? He's winning while playing suboptimally because of special rules. (Could have puppetted some cities from Polynesia and Korea.) That's so special!
Instead of growing uselessly huge, he used the extra food to work more specialists. This means that he basically turned the food into science and culture.
Who said Iam losing? When did I said India is bad?
He was able to found a religion thanks to the pantheon start and feeding more specialists thanks to the harappan reservoir. But when does he really use the follower related ability? His capital is generating 32 excess food at 25 city size. If he have 20 follower in his city, this would mean he has 27 base excess food and 5 extra food by the followers. Thats neglegible. I saw a chinese city which was 6 citizen bigger than his ones. Sure, china is a growth oriented civ, but india is it too, but his cities have the same size as other nations cities too, like korea or polynesia.
Is a secondary city above 20 size already uselessly huge? Did china already grow their cities to a needless huge size with 23?
Your comment and his play, also the always good performing china shows, gaining food is a greatly help, but growth (the modifier) isnt. If you try to use growth related part of indias ability, you have to sacrifice other yields and have to face additionally some problems with happiness. I didnt wonder he isnt facing big happiness problems, such a small population is really easy to handle.
If you try to use growth related part of indias ability, you have to sacrifice other yields and have to face additionally some problems with happiness. I didnt wonder he isnt facing big happiness problems, such a small population is really easy to handle.
But whats the point of having big population? Growing population for the sake of growing even more population does not make any sense, population does not win you the game
Bonus: How I assign my citizen now.
I work all the tiles with science, I work all the tiles with good culture and faith. I work all the Scientist, Engineer, Diplomat slots. The rest are food. If I lack food, I unwork my Engineers to work food.
And I dont experience any "Happiness Swing" at all. I never stop growing my cities. View attachment 508049
A bit of a nitpick, but the secondary city that could work on the village could be working on the manufactory instead. I simply can't stand to see a GPTI unworked...
Anyway, I actually think your city management is wonderful because it shows efficiency. You're working everything that contributes towards your overall empire and only that. I actually play less efficient than you do, like for example I'd only usually work the Specialists once I have the exceptionally high yielding tiles like that Plantation and the Manufactory worked. I focus on highest yields first and foremost. You focus more directly on output yields/Specialists (Culture, Science, Great Scientists) and don't place as much value on those tiles (I basically do what my intutition tells me to do, and try to make sure I have enough of all yields). Like my intuition, while not as extreme as BiteInTheMark's, would be to get Cathedrals and work more of those Farms, basically ignore Villages, focus on the synergy. I am now realizing that's not the best idea.
You have Mastery/Artistry and you're using them well.
But whats the point of having big population? Growing population for the sake of growing even more population does not make any sense, population does not win you the game
Nobody speaks of growing for the sake of growing. But more population triggers more often birth based effects (like progress opener or finisher), enable you to work more tiles, gives you more military cap, greater ability to support your specialists, gives more yields from population based buildings, gives more yields from follower beliefs and in case of indias UA, more growth and more pressure. So, why shouldnt I aim for such benefits?
He has/will win cause of the complete inability of the AI to do a proper attack. 17 units in modern era while beeing attacked several times from 2 sides, no chance to hold this vs a human. And Iam for sure his major culture and science output in midgame came from trade routes with china.
But in this case, the major question is.... Why playing a civilization with a growth and population based UA, if growing is a bad play?
India UA is wonderful because my cities can still growth very fast with like 30 excess food. Which is impossible with any other civ.
If its not India, to get a 25 pop capital at that time, I must sacrify at least 4 or 5 specialist slot. Which mean less engineers, less scientists, less wonders..
AI in VP is not bad, they kick my ass from time to time. I just play extra carefully.
I guess It would have worked. Im really bad with Congress. I dont know what to do with it other than having some diplo bonus when I propose something people like
A bit of a nitpick, but the secondary city that could work on the village could be working on the manufactory instead. I simply can't stand to see a GPTI unworked...
IMO, the manufactory is not a good tile at all. I make it just because I dont have anything to rush at this time and it will boost my future rush. I value production like this: if I work this tile, how many turns I can save on my current project? In this case working the manufactory in my capital save 0 turn on my Archaeologist, while working it in Varanasi can save me only one turn of the Public School I believe.
17 units in modern era while beeing attacked several times from 2 sides, no chance to hold this vs a human. And Iam for sure his major culture and science output in midgame came from trade routes with china.
17 Renaissance Units my friend . That's how OP elephant is. If your major culture and science come from trade routes, you will forever stay behind, with no Wonders, and that would mean a game lost. My major science and culture output is from poping Great Scientist and Great Writer. Half my trade routes now go to Morocco for gold, half is Food/Production to where needed and I make my TRs pass all the villages.
One turn left on Biology, I bought a Writer with faith so I could pop him next turn. China got Ideology the exact same turn as me. I pick Avant Garde. With this Tenet and the Rationalism Finisher, I get 66% bonus to great scientist rate, its huge, I will get a lot of scientists after that. I started the wonder right away, I have a great engineer ready for it.
SpoilerNext stop :
Next stop is Corporations. I want to unlock my Franchise ASAP.
SpoilerPeace :
SpoilerDoing thing a little differently :
Next Congress Session. Im really bad with Congress and casting my votes. I dont want world religion and Scholars in residence, so I vote nay. Unfortunately, Scholars in residence pass, Im trying to repel it now.
SpoilerStatus of Liberty :
I got the wonder. Noone even have the tech yet. My play style involve lots of specialists, so this is a very nice wonder to have.
Civil Society is no brainer. This tenet alone could save me huge amount of food.
SpoilerNext plan :
After Corporations, I go for Plastics because of Research Lab, then Flight for some Triplane to defend, my elephant cannot carry me forever. Eiffel is still there , its a little regret I didnt go for it, but now its a little too late I think.
SpoilerSuperfarms :
With aggribusiness, I have 12 food farms ... Its crazy. I can work many useful things thanks to those farms. And my cities still growing fast.
Spoiler8th scientist :
8th was born in Varanasi, the first scientist born in my secondary city. Yay. I will have many more soon.
SpoilerEiffel :
Well, Eiffel is still there. Im so tempted to build it. But Im sure many other civs got the tech for a while now, and I have more important things to do. So I decided to use my Engineer on Giorgio instead.
SpoilerSpies :
I use the same strategy with other spies. I send them as diplomat first to gain level, then send them to city states around me. Having some allied city states is nice.
SpoilerVote for myself :
Why not? Im a respectable world tech leader now .
Spoiler9th scientist :
9th was born in Agra. I get alot of scientists and engineers. Scientist will be poped right away while engineer go to my capital and sit there waiting for something to rush.
SpoilerDeciding what to aim for :
Its totally Gandhi thing right . There is no useful thing to rush when advance to Atomic, so I decided to go for Atomic Theory and get the first nuke. I didnt plan on using it but I think it will scare my neighbour of constantly declaring war on me.
I wonder should I nuke this guy for fun? It doesnt go against the rule right?
SpoilerRepeling Scholars in residence :
That the worst thing for me as Im ahead now. I cast all my votes on repeling that. Luckily, I was successfully repel that. Now I propose Cultural heritage site one more time.
SpoilerSteal some artifacts :
Carthage and The Celt are both go Fealty, so I still can steal some hidden sites from them. This give me quite nice culture boost.
Spoilerlv2 tenet :
I actually unlocked it on turn 387, but forgot to show it. Here it is. I pick universal healthcare. Free hospital is very nice. With those archaeologist dig and Writer pop, I was able to advance policy with a crazy speed. My 2 next tenets are on turn 396 and 403. My mouse is hovering Creative Expression but Im pretty sure I picked covert action and Universal Sufferage.
Spoiler10th scientist :
10th was born in my capital. All other cities are still building research lab.
SpoilerKorea in trouble :
Morocco decided to attack Korea. Korea is very weak now. Hes an era behind of everyone. I dont think he can survive this.
He's smart, Im about to have my nuke and if hes still at war with me hes gonna be my test subject.
Spoiler11th scientist :
11th in Mumbai. Im very far ahead now.
SpoilerCongress :
Kongo is right next to me. I want to ally it, so all my votes go to nay. Notthing useful to propose, I repel Iroquois sphere of influence.
SpoilerA tip for using Great Diplomat :
If you already know it then just ignore it. But I give a tiny tip here. You can check whether you can place Embassy in city state by hover your mouse on its name like this. If it possible then it will be a green line say Embassy is available instead of Embassy already established. I used all previous Diplomat to creat embassy, but its not possible anymore so I just use him to get Kongo back.
SpoilerLv3 tenet :
This is the last thing I need from Freedom. I will unlock State Craft on my next Policy.
SpoilerStockpile engineers :
My capital has notthing left to build so I build Cristo. Im very far ahead so I can get it even if I didnt spend anything. But I have some more Engineers soon so I guess It doesnt hurt if I use one now.
SpoilerGot Cristo :
I can win Tourism if I want to now . But I will do science as planed.
SpoilerKorea in BIG trouble :
He lost his capital already. Im now sharing border with Morocco, hes growing fast too, now hes second behind me, China starting to lag behind. I have enough oil, so I buy triplanes with gold in my capital. 18 triplanes will be enough for defense.
Spoiler12th scientist :
12th scientist in VIJAJAJAJAJAJA. Poping this one get me to Atomic Era. Its crazy, no one even advance to Modern yet .
I almost feel sorry for Korea. With no religion you can't Faith-buy GP (on top of losing all your religious benefits), it's the most annoying thing.
Hospitals always seemed kind of weak to me relative to how much they cost. They don't give you a % carryover of Food like some other buildings. The Poverty reduction can be important though and India probably has enough extra Food that the Food to Science effect is a bit better than normal.
Its pretty obvious. I go straight to Bletchley Park.
SpoilerThis is very annoying :
I have open border with Morocco and that prick constantly pillage my INTERNAL trade routes. Its so annoying. The lesson here is dont give him open border.
SpoilerScholars in resident again :
NAY please! I really dont know what to do with my proposal now ....
Spoiler13th scientist :
In Pataliputra.
SpoilerI remember it wrong :
I actually picked Creative Expression last time , I guess Im drunk. Now I pick Covert Action and do some Coup.
SpoilerNext stop :
Satelites very obviously. Im an Era ahead of everyone now .
SpoilerBletchley Park :
Got it without much effort. Im snowball too hard now . From now on I just click next turn to my victory.
That's it for now. I will update more later to count the scientists. Winning is inevitable now .
Total number of Scientist: 13.
At this point, game is almost win already. I will just pick the most important events and count the scientists now.
Spoiler14th scientist :
14th in Calcuta. 9 turns left for the 15th .
SpoilerNay the United Nation :
I really dont know what to do with this.
SpoilerHow my cities look like :
4 farms to feed 19 Specialists .... Its crazy.... India exclusive.
Spoiler15th Scientist :
Bangalore score the 15th. Oh and my friend Polynessia is playing with me . He's giving my triplane some experience .
SpoilerThe last tech queue. :
Im 14 techs ahead of the second best , so there's no need for very careful planning now. Just grab all the tech before CERN then use it 2 free tech to get Globalization and Nuclear Fusion and buy the parts. And since Im so far ahead all the wonders are mine too , even those I dont really need.
Spoiler16th scientist :
16th guy comes from APOLLO.
Spoiler17th scientist :
17th was born in Lahore.
SpoilerUnused faith :
I just realize I have over 40k unused faith . So I auto buy more Scientist. It would reduce some of my Next turn button.
This is my last scientist. He was born in Varanasi. Oh its actually one more, the 25th is just purchased by faith in my capital. 3 engineers sit there ready for CERN.
SpoilerCERN :
CERN is built. Then some more boring turns of purchase and launch the parts. I got my science victory at turn 507, 1917AD. A very snowballing late game.
I got total of 25 scientists in the game. Each of my secondary cities contribute at least one scientist (2 was born in Varanasi). Im sure I have much more scientists than a Tradition 4 cities, at least 5 more, not to mention my city produce lots of science. Im almost 2 eras ahead of the second civ at the end.
Some though about it after complete the game:
- India is a very strong, well designed civ. It has strong advantage in very early game, and in late game. If I didnt have the +1 culture from the begining, my settling speed would be delay a lot, at least 20 turns, and also no Pyramids for sure, that would mean 2 less cities, and my progress gonna be 20% slower than this. The advantage in the late game is very clear. My capital hit 47 pops at the end without focusing on food at all. And as Ive showed, I can feed 19 Specialists with only 4 farms .... Its crazy strong, not to mention the passive pressure bully my neighbour so hard, they dont have any extra faith to spend on GPs.
- Progress clearly beats Tradition in Science, no more doubt about this, both in raw science output and in the amount of Scientists generated.
- Defensive cities location plays a huge part in the game.
The game is most interesting in Medieval and Renaissance when I have to think very carefully about each of my descisions. Later, I just snowball so hard it becomes boring. I hope you guys enjoy this and I hope some of my information, tips and numbers are useful for you .
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. That's how OP elephant is. If your major culture and science come from trade routes, you will forever stay behind, with no Wonders, and that would mean a game lost. My major science and culture output is from poping Great Scientist and Great Writer. Half my trade routes now go to Morocco for gold, half is Food/Production to where needed and I make my TRs pass all the villages.
.... Its crazy strong, not to mention the passive pressure bully my neighbour so hard, they dont have any extra faith to spend on GPs.
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