Infinite City Sprawl 03 - Divine

[mystyfly]

Played 48 Turns, 4000BC - 2080BC
I must say, this kinda made my day.

I started by moving the settler 1W. I'm convinced this was the right move. Delhi is founded, Hunting / Worker started.

(4) 3840BC
I moved our initial warrior east. He popped his first hut

Err... Nice
Now that our worker can improve our land to increase food I decided to tech Archery before AH.

(5) 3800BC
Delhis borders pop the hut and we get a scout.

Lincoln greets us from the north

(6) 3760BC
Hunting > Archery

IBT
Buddhism FIDL

(7) 3720BC
The scout went south of Delhi, where he found a hut, which he popped for 53g.

(8) 3680BC
The warrior went further east, found another hut and popped it for... Fishing

(12) 3520BC
The warrior moves on, finds another hut, pops it for... Masonry. Really, this is getting embarassing. Popping 3 techs with only one warrior, on Deity! This must be some kind of record

However, the journeys of our brave warrior seems to end. Just keep him in memory and he'll live forever...

IBT
Sure enought, he dies.

(13) 3480BC
Archery in > AH

(15) 3400BC
(IBT: Hinduism FIDL)

Delhi: Fast Worker > Archer

(19) 3240BC
We run into HC, or rather he runs into us

(23) 3080BC
AH in > Meditation

Lincoln missed that hut, so I pop it for a Warrior (note: Horses nearby, Lincoln quite close..)

(29) 2840BC
Meet Pacal

(32) 2720BC
Meditation > Priesthood
Delhi: Archer > Archer

(37) 2520BC
Priesthood > Writing
Delhi: Archer > Oracle

(40) 2400BC
(IBT: Lose the scout, Stonehenge BIDL)

Turn 48 it is

(42) 2320
(IBT: Pacal founds Judaism)

(44) 2240BC
Hammurabi comes by

IBT
Lincoln converts to Buddhism. This puts an end to our hopes of converting a neighbor.

(48) 2080BC
Probabely the most important year for India: Delhi finishes the Oracle
In this year, Indian Scientists discover the secrets of Writing and Code of Laws.

Also, Indian priests all start following a guy called Confucius (Sorry, no pic, I have movies disabled..)

---

So here we are: So far, we have reached every goal we have set (only one, but still...). We got a huge amount of techs (Agriculture, Fishing, Masonry popped; Hunting, Archery, AH, Meditation, Priesthood, Writing teched and CoL popped.

I think we couldn't have hoped for nicer neighbors: They're peaceful (as far as I know) teching decently and pretty easy to get along with. Bad thing only is that we can't convert anyone. OTOH religious diversity between them helps us getting by with adopting a religion no one else has.

I think our missionary should be used for popping some city's borders.

We clearly need to expand towards Lincoln first. We can have 3 riverside cities (one with 2 FPs) and one (the one on horses) has irrigated rice. I say the first city should be horsetown, followed by 1-2 of those riverside cities to block lincol off. BTW we definitely need the city 3W of horsetown, as it gets us stone.

About the land in Pacal's direction: We're definitely unlucky here, the landstrip is 8 tiles wide but we still can only settle 2 cities there... At least there are some food ressources. I think we should try to get the riverside city up, the one with one FP and pigs.

(The pics of the land will be in the next post (piclimits..))

Techwise, I say BW > Pottery > The Wheel.

We currently have 2 archers and 1 warrior (guarding delhi). They just recovered to full strength. One of 'em has drill-II. There is also a scout east. We should OB with Pacal to travel on (and are save for a while)

I hope I didn't forget anything. Nice discussion so far, keep it up!!

I didn't move any of the units on turn 48, I've already played enought. I say until we're once through the roster, everyone play 10-20 turns, up to a "natural stopping point" like tech discovery, city settling etc. From then on it's 10 turns each.

Roster:
mystyfly - just played
r_rolo1 - UP NOW
ssmage - on deck
Ralph_Jackson
qwertz
ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

BTW: 1000th post

View attachment ICS3 BC-2080.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[mystyfly]

Land:

No more comments for now, I've really gotta go now...

 

[r_rolo1]

HC ....

Nice display of MM, mystyfly

Will play this in the evening or tomorrow. Thoughts?

 

[mystyfly]

Some things that come to mind: The worker is farming a FP. If you want to cancel that, do it asap so you can still move him this turn.

I think the thing requiring most discussion is city placement order. I don't know how much lincoln and pacal can expand away from us. I think we should settle horse-city and FP city to block link. Probabely FP city first, you can use the missionary to pop its borders. If we expand towards linc we don't have to travel that far and can protect our cities more easily (more AI prescence > more fogbusting).

We really need chariots and/or axes. I suggest teching BW to find it and then probabely the wheel (before pottery).

Are we already decided on what to do with the prophet or do we want to wait until we get a better overview on techs to decide whether or not to bulb christianity? I'm a bit worried of meeting HC who is always a strong in getting wonders.

RE globe city: It's important we get a strong GT city. The best spot I see is (towards pacal) the spot 1E of corn, getting corn and pigs. This will leave us with a few crappy cities however. If we want to put GT there we should leave a couple of forests in this area.

BTW did you know that travelling through oasis takes 2 movement? I didn't

 

[ssmage]

OB with lincon, see if he spreads budda to us, we should go covert to it for diplo, then go confu for ap(if possible, we still get the hammer bonus, right?
Full member and all?)or go budda ap if we cant. We need to butter up to HC
and make a budda vs jew block
if we pacal early via dogpile, we got this game easyer.

 

[qwertz]

I'm a bit worried about HC as we could lose some wonders to him, but otherwise our situation looks really good ATM. I'll have a closer look at the save and post some more coments later.

 

[mystyfly]

OB with lincon, see if he spreads budda to us, we should go covert to it for diplo, then go confu for ap(if possible, we still get the hammer bonus, right?
Full member and all?)or go budda ap if we cant. We need to butter up to HC
and make a budda vs jew block
if we pacal early via dogpile, we got this game easyer.

I'm not 100% sure about what I'm about to write so enjoy with care

AP stays the same religion. If we're conf the turn the AP is built, and we switch out, still all conf bldings produce hammers.

SM + USak create gold + beakers in all the buildings of the religion of our current state religion. That means if we build the AP for conf but adopt buddh later, we'll have to build 2 temples and 2 monasteries to get use out of all wonders. I don't like that idea. I'd rather (as in the other games) stay conf and risk those diplo hits. However, if we're nice to the AIs (give them gifts, ressource trades, etc) we should be fine. Remember, we're spi and can always switch to any religion / civic we want for diplo and switch back quickly.

BTW AP resolutions are pretty worthless without spreading the religion to most of the AIs.


And I don't see it as a target to get a early war against Pacal. We'll have to pick an enemy and I don't mind if it's weak but dogpiling that early can be quite uncontrollable. And I don't see how dogpiling pacal would make the game easier. We're not likely to get any cities if some other AIs join the war, and if they don't we'll get smashed.

 

[qwertz]

It seems that HC is somewhere behind Lincoln and Hammurabi somewhere behind Pascal. This means we will most likely be between the buddhist and jewish block.
I think we should adopt confu for now, for the bonus, sign OP with everyone and hope someone will send a missionary or two to us. As we are spiritual we should than be able to switch between confu, buddhism and judaism if we need to.


Techwise, I'd go BW-wheel-pottery... after that we shall see, monotheism for OR, aesthetics for trading, maths for better chopping?


We have really nice land for expanding to the east. I think we should settle few cities as close to Pascal as possible and backfill the land later. But I would still settle the horse city 3 NW from Delhi and maybe a cooper city first.

 

[r_rolo1]

I think that we can take the chance of being heatens if there are religious blocks....

About the techs: BW now most surely, wheel and Pottery looks good as well ( lots of infra will be used ). We just need to put Mono somewhere there ( I think that we need to bulb Theo ) and prepare a chopping area for the AP.

Do we want to go to the Mids? It is a huge investement...... but it may pay up

 

[ZPV]

Nice one mystyfly!

It will be easy to pacify HC and Pacal, because they both like Hereditary Rule, so I wouldn't worry about upsetting them too much.
So I think we should convert to Conf when we grow to size 6.

Looking at the Religion screen, Buddhism hasn't been spread around too much, so I think Lincoln just got a random spread along trade routes, instead of HC going into missionary spam mode.
This would mean that he should be quite easy to convert.
It would also mean that they are quite close together, so we should def. block off Lincoln first.

I also noticed, that Hinduism is being spread around, so I think there will be a significant Hindu bloc on the other side of the map

Pacal II is going to be huge. I don't think there is much we can do about that.

I don't think we should go for the Mids, as
a) The AI will probably build them before us anyway
b) We need to build settlers IMO. Early Representation isn't worth the extra delay for us.

I agree that BW, Wheel, Pottery are our immediate priorities, so that we can get some improved cities going, and hopefully someone will have researched Alphabet by the time we get them. When someone does get Alpha, I think we will need to reassess the situation.

I also agree with bulbing Theo, but we need to be wary of HC. He built Stonehenge, and will get a GP before us. Hopefully he will build a shrine with it.

On Settling Order: I think we want to go for the city with 2FP first, and then Horse City soon after. (As Horse city is useless without The Wheel). After that I guess one more city near Lincoln and then two blockers for Pacal. (We'll see what we can get in this regard).

P.S. Can I borrow your RNG myst?

 

[mystyfly]

It seems that HC is somewhere behind Lincoln and Hammurabi somewhere behind Pascal. This means we will most likely be between the buddhist and jewish block.

To me it looks that the religions are spread like this (going from us, counter-clockwise): Conf - Jud - Hindu - Buddh. Hopefully some religious maniac who didn't get a religion yet will grab christianity and we'll definitely not be top1 target.

I think we should adopt confu for now, for the bonus, sign OP with everyone and hope someone will send a missionary or two to us. As we are spiritual we should than be able to switch between confu, buddhism and judaism if we need to.

Yep, nice. We can convert to any religion we want if we want to get some trades going but "they don't like us enought"

About the techs: BW now most surely, wheel and Pottery looks good as well ( lots of infra will be used ). We just need to put Mono somewhere there ( I think that we need to bulb Theo ) and prepare a chopping area for the AP.

Sounds good. Mono just after pottery? Yes, we need that to bulb theo.

I also noticed, that Hinduism is being spread around, so I think there will be a significant Hindu bloc on the other side of the map

A big hindu block would be huge. If they DOW us we shouldn't have a problem getting the Pacal/linc to close borders. They'll make a nice buffer

I don't think we should go for the Mids, as

How did you get the idea to try and build them
edit: by rolo I see now. Definitely not try them! We won't run many specs, much rather will we whip infra and units most of the time.

I also agree with bulbing Theo, but we need to be wary of HC. He built Stonehenge, and will get a GP before us. Hopefully he will build a shrine with it.

As he founded a religion he's very likely to build a shrine.

On Settling Order: I think we want to go for the city with 2FP first, and then Horse City soon after. (As Horse city is useless without The Wheel). After that I guess one more city near Lincoln and then two blockers for Pacal. (We'll see what we can get in this regard).

P.S. Can I borrow your RNG myst?

Nope, it's MINE

 

[qwertz]

How did you get the idea to try and build them

rolo just suggested it two posts ago

But I don't really like the idea either. It's quite late and HC might already be building it. Rep would be nice, but I'd rather get some settlers instead of it.




I agree with the theo bulb, but the question is do we want to just wait 50 turn to get a GP from the oracle or do we want to run priest(s). If we decide to get some priests when are we going to build the needed infrastructure? I think some settlers, workers and fogbusters should still have the priority.



We could to convert Lincoln, but I don't really like the idea. This would mean a missionary war vs. HC and he could outspam us every day of the week. Lincoln also isn't that much of religious zealot and the same religion bonus with him wouldn't be that large.

 

[mystyfly]

rolo just suggested it two posts ago

I've seen it and edited my post

I agree with the theo bulb, but the question is do we want to just wait 50 turn to get a GP from the oracle or do we want to run priest(s). If we decide to get some priests when are we going to build the needed infrastructure? I think some settlers, workers and fogbusters should still have the priority.

We'll definitely want to run priests. Question of when is a good one. I think after we get 2 or 3 settlers out (linc blocked and pacal at least partially). Probabely even earlier (also to slow down growth).

We could to convert Lincoln, but I don't really like the idea. This would mean a missionary war vs. HC and he could outspam us every day of the week. Lincoln also isn't that much of religious zealot and the same religion bonus with him wouldn't be that large.

I wouldn't attempt that. I'd rather have a free border pop in a blocking city.

 

[ssmage]

i've seen something on emp, and the emps can tech theo WAYYYY faster then we can get a GP, so i think getting is pretty unlikey.(dietys can tech it in about 15 turns or so, i think)(maybe faster)(running priests is must if we want )

 

[mystyfly]

^^ We don't want christianity, we want the AP.

 

[r_rolo1]

Boring turnset.....

Played until settling 2nd city....

Sury came by.... he's the top shark by now:

Spoiler :

Surprisingly we're not the last on all:

Spoiler :

Some barb action ( this babies come early in Deity ):

Spoiler :

BTW barb have bad taste in settling spots.....

Spoiler :

Are we going to raze or keep this one?

We completed BW and trailed to wheel ( forgot pic... we have cooper in the border of the map in the south, near the furs and other source pretty near of Pacal )

And as promissed, second city , on horses:

Spoiler :

Some notes:

Our cap is for a whip ( still not revolted to Slavery, but given that we are spi , we should only be in Slavery when needed ) and after the settler we had being making some archers for fogbusting.

The GW is already down.....

We should stert spamming settlers sonn. Americans are already pretty near.

Hammurabui is behind Pacal and Sury is behind Hammurabi. Still don't know the whereaboutts of the rest of the AI

 

[mystyfly]

Nice turns.

BTW barb have bad taste in settling spots.....

This is good news, they help us keep lincold from settling our lands. I think we should raze the city. It is off-grid and won't come with buildings or stuff. Just get rid of it early (before walls, cultural defences and several archers are up ).

I'll look at the save this evening and discuss future city settling order.

 

[ssmage]

Got the save, waiting for group replies

 

[qwertz]

I think Delhi should start pumping out some more settlers and workers, while Bombay builds some chariots (we don't even need to connect it to the capital yet). We should settle one more blocking city to the north (maybe 6NE, or 6N3E from Delhi), and than turn eastwards, before Pascal and barbarians settled the whole land.
I think we can ignore the barbarian city for now as the barbarians are more peaceful when they have a city, so we should be able to settle the land to the east without many conflicts.
Techwise, I'd go directly towards monotheism after wheel/pottery.

Also do we want open borders with some AIs? I don't see any drawbacks from it and we'll at least get the diplomacy bonus.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Apologies for not contributing to the debate but I need to look at the game to really do so and unfortunately..

"Well I have discovered a new rule number 1 for SG's, don't come home and find your wife using your BTS DVD as a coffee mat. (No I am not joking!!)

Must now purchase a new one as it is knackered."

I will get one so keep me in the roster but if I come up before sunday please swap me!!

Ralph