Information On Our Opponents

Here's a few examples of diplomatic correspondence to give folks an idea of my writing style. Even though I have my own ideas about what we should be doing in this game, I will, as always, gladly welcome criticism and suggestions from fellow AMAZONs. I am currently making sure our demographics get taken care of, but I would be interested in helping our team in a diplomatic capacity.

Team CDZ:
Spoiler :
Hail leaders of the CDZland Kleptocracy,

Our scout Dora the Explorer, bravely marched across many a mile of untamed wilderness and fought off wild animals to reach the borders of your growing civilization. Word has been quickly sent back to the AMAZON camp where partying and general rejoicing broke out in the streets. After the raucous cheers died down the AMAZON tribe convened the general council and this missive was hammered out (with metaphorical hammers) and dispatched as quickly as possible to our new friends.

We hope this message finds your civilization prospering and we look forward to many years of friendly, mutually beneficial relations with the good people of the CDZland Kleptocracy.

The AMAZON Empire would like to enter into preliminary negotiations with the Viking Kleptocracy and discuss a possible non-aggression pact and the potential for future tech trades.

Please send all diplomatic correspondence to AMAZON1 @ gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you.

...SilentConfusion,
Diplomat, Team AMAZON


Team Merlot:
Spoiler :
To the Glorious King Indiansmoke of House Merlot...

We appreciate the information you have shared with us regarding the location of the marauding barbarian archer. Our scout, Dora, was able to circumvent the dangerous foe. We appreciate the gesture and hope that this will herald the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship between our two civilizations.

In return, and as a similar gesture of good will between our civilizations, we would like to share the approximate location of a Viking scout. The Viking scout is currently resting from a wolf attack 3S4W of your exploring warrior. Hopefully you can arrange to meet their scout and we can all begin to talk of alliance.

Despite the differences inherent in our two governments, our goals and aims are the same and mutual cooperation can only serve to further our own ends and bring glory to both of us.

...SilentConfusion,
Diplomat, Team AMAZON


If I don't end up getting this position I will still try to help with ideas for our diplomatic relations and in good AMAZON fashion be a good teammate.
 
I like yours SC, and I think mine was pretty bad, but I think I can write like that.
 
Here's a few examples of diplomatic correspondence to give folks an idea of my writing style. Even though I have my own ideas about what we should be doing in this game, I will, as always, gladly welcome criticism and suggestions from fellow AMAZONs. I am currently making sure our demographics get taken care of, but I would be interested in helping our team in a diplomatic capacity.

Team CDZ:
Spoiler :
Hail leaders of the CDZland Kleptocracy,

Our scout Dora the Explorer, bravely marched across many a mile of untamed wilderness and fought off wild animals to reach the borders of your growing civilization. Word has been quickly sent back to the AMAZON camp where partying and general rejoicing broke out in the streets. After the raucous cheers died down the AMAZON tribe convened the general council and this missive was hammered out (with metaphorical hammers) and dispatched as quickly as possible to our new friends.

We hope this message finds your civilization prospering and we look forward to many years of friendly, mutually beneficial relations with the good people of the CDZland Kleptocracy.

The AMAZON Empire would like to enter into preliminary negotiations with the Viking Kleptocracy and discuss a possible non-aggression pact and the potential for future tech trades.

Please send all diplomatic correspondence to AMAZON1 @ gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you.

...SilentConfusion,
Diplomat, Team AMAZON


Team Merlot:
Spoiler :
To the Glorious King Indiansmoke of House Merlot...

We appreciate the information you have shared with us regarding the location of the marauding barbarian archer. Our scout, Dora, was able to circumvent the dangerous foe. We appreciate the gesture and hope that this will herald the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship between our two civilizations.

In return, and as a similar gesture of good will between our civilizations, we would like to share the approximate location of a Viking scout. The Viking scout is currently resting from a wolf attack 3S4W of your exploring warrior. Hopefully you can arrange to meet their scout and we can all begin to talk of alliance.

Despite the differences inherent in our two governments, our goals and aims are the same and mutual cooperation can only serve to further our own ends and bring glory to both of us.

...SilentConfusion,
Diplomat, Team AMAZON


If I don't end up getting this position I will still try to help with ideas for our diplomatic relations and in good AMAZON fashion be a good teammate.

Brilliant:goodjob:
 
OK now we have our candidates for Diplomat and we have everyone's responses to the request for some sample diplo:

link16 drafted one sample letter to Sirius:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9075553&postcount=60

nabaxo said:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9078082&postcount=64

remake20 drafted one sample letter to Merlot:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9075252&postcount=59

SilentConfusion drafted two sample letters... one to CDZ and one to Merlot:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9075940&postcount=61

Are we ready to move to the election? If so I will post language for a suggested poll in the Upcoming Poll Thread along with each candidate's sample diplo. First we can vote on whether we want one diplomat or multiple diplomats, then we can elect the individual Diplomat.

Or are there any more candidates or additional diplo submissions that candidates want to make?
 
I would like to rewrite mine and make it better. I will edit this post a little bit later today, I don't think there is a big rush.
 
Some thoughts on a watery island map

Time to read up on our Mahan and the importance of a powerful navy.

A powerful offensive navy will likely be very key to this game. Since navies can threaten multiple cities at once, it is almost impossible to just use fortified garrison units as a static defense. A naval invasion force (post astro) will easily threaten multiple coastal cities on a single turn. Over a few turns (and with simult moves this becomes a bigger issue) they could move to strike even further afield. While rails help some to reposition defensive garrison units, if we are in fact on an island map each island will have to essentially be self supporting when it comes to defense.

This forces a defender to garrison enough units in multiple cities to repel a naval attack – and consequently forces the defender to garrison far more units in order to defend against a smaller attacking force. This flips the normal game mechanics on its head where the attacker normally has to bring a larger army in order to have success.

For this reason I think the key in this game will be constant naval aggression. We will also want a very robust naval screen to intercept any incoming forces as they will be much easier to kill on the high sees rather than once they are able to strike at our cities. Getting Astro quickly will also be hugely important. We also may want to consider building more inland cities than would normally be prudent. These will have lower trade route yields but will be much harder to kill.



Biggest threats - Vikings and Netherlands
These civs are going to be crazy overpowered on this map. Allying with them would be very useful – but eventually every alliance will break down and they will be a powerful late game force to reckon with. We should try to get these teams killed or severely weakened in the early game.

Viking raiders are the most obvious problem, but fortunately they come long before Astro. What we also need to consider is that berserkers can be upgraded and keep the amphibious promotion. Amphibious C1 CR2 grenadiers will be difficult to deal with.

Both Civs also have great UB’s for water maps.
-Vikings essentially get +1 movement for every naval unit – that can increase the number of cities they can threaten and will make it much harder to intercept naval forces on the open seas after astro. This also almost guarantees that the vikings will also get the Circumnavigation bonus. In oder to deny this double benefit we may want to consider working with another team (map sharing) to make sure that one of us and not the Vikings are the 1st to Circumnavigate.

-Netherlands get the equivalent of Moai statues (+1 production on water tiles) in every coastal city. Granted this only comes after Steam Power – but if they get to that point I suspect they will run away with this game. Crippling them beforehand will be important.

I raise these points to give some context for any early contact we make. For example, if we find the Vikings nearby we may not actually want to form a close partnership and instead work to limit their expansion to ****** their growth.
 
^ I agree with the bulk of what was said by damnrunner, which is another reason I encourage AMAZONs to vote to switch our tech to Fishing ASAP. Let's get our Naval Dominance off to the right start by being the first to get boats in the water, locating rivals, and our nearby landmasses to expand to.

If we are concerned about either allying with, or limiting the navies of the Vikings and the Dutch... shouldn't we try to find them before they find us?
 
^ I agree with the bulk of what was said by damnrunner, which is another reason I encourage AMAZONs to vote to switch our tech to Fishing ASAP. Let's get our Naval Dominance off to the right start by being the first to get boats in the water, locating rivals, and our nearby landmasses to expand to.

If we are concerned about either allying with, or limiting the navies of the Vikings and the Dutch... shouldn't we try to find them before they find us?

WBs will not give naval dominance. Production will. Find them 1st has no bearing on when they find us.
 
WBs will not give naval dominance. Production will. Find them 1st has no bearing on when they find us.
This is why I am strongly against switching research. If someone nabs an early island site before we've developed the good sites we have on our home island (assuming we keep that as priority 1), it will have required they sacrifice early production and power to do so. If we have horses/copper on our home island it is game over for such a civ. If we don't have horses copper on our home island, what we gain by researching fishing now is only of marginal benefit, as we'd still have to wait to research those techs before sending out galleys/settlers for colonization anyway.

Changing research isn't just a bad idea - it's a remarkably bad idea imo.
 
WBs will not give naval dominance.
:confused: Fishing is a MUST have in the path to naval dominance. Animal Husbandry has absolutely nothing to do with Naval dominance. Surely in terms of PURE Naval dominance Fishing is more important than AH right?

If we have horses/copper on our home island it is game over for such a civ. If we don't have horses copper on our home island, what we gain by researching fishing now is only of marginal benefit, as we'd still have to wait to research those techs before sending out galleys/settlers for colonization anyway.
This Map is clearly intended to make us race off of our island. Look how havily resourced our Island already is...not much room for horses/copper Frankly, I would not be suprised if we are supposed to race to other landmasses to get the strategic resources... There is really no way to know for sure until after we have BW,IW and AH...

However, if we have already sent out a workboat and scouted another landmass by the time we get BW, then we will know that the Copper is on another island instead of just :cry: crying "Why didn't the mapmaker give us any Horses or Metal?"

We were supposed to race to the next island to get it. That's why.
 
I think you are making serious assumptions about what the mapmaker intended. We have good land that can be flat out abused with our traits, and if we stick to a standard tech path we may not have the first or second overseas city, we will certainly be the first civ with 3, 4 and 5 overseas cities. If we spazz out and start deviating from the plays which most favor our leader/civ choices, we are volunteering to lose the advantages we possess.
1 - there is no way we will be the fastest to explore off-island sites, as many of the other civs start with fishing.
2 - we have land that will allow us to tech fishing/sailing in a massive hurry while grabbing our first 2 city sites.
3 - those first two city sites will be coastal, able to produce signifcant :hammers: by whipping/chopping and mining, and will allow us to gain naval superiority when we will need it (later), rather than trying to do it when we don't have a prayer of achieving it (now).
 
The idea isn't to gain naval superiority now, but to establish early contact and explore the map.

Early/first contact could potentially lead to strong alliances, which would effect the way the rest of the game unfolds.

The single most important thing in a civ game is location. Assuming the mapmaker balanced the map, it is then most important to know more about the map sooner than your opponents.

Exploration could potentially alter all of our decisions. If we know things about the map before other civs do, we could react quicker, and gain a significant advantage.
 
I think we need to more some of this discussion to the turn discussion thread. Getting a little off-topic.
 
Fishing is a MUST have in the path to naval dominance. Animal Husbandry has absolutely nothing to do with Naval dominance. Surely in terms of PURE Naval dominance Fishing is more important than AH right?

I see you're really pushing this, but when you make points like this it's hard to believe you've thought it out. AH is key to production in terms of both health and in food to work tiles. I will again point out that we might have nowhere to send the boat until closer to 2000 BC or whenever capitols pop borders a 2nd time. That so many missed *that* is quite dubious, if we're to compete with the caliper of opposition that will be fielding these watermaces and astroprivateers, we have to recognize things like that, ASAP. I'm disappointed the poll went >10 votes deep without careful analysis of either the in-game position or the screen shots.

More on topic, naval dominance *is* key and we *do* have to pay attention to it. It isn't just berserkers: it's anybody with galleons. Beware of teams like mavericks who have PHI and enough deity caliper talent to field galleons in the 1 AD to 500 AD range with the advantages that confers. Such a team might not want to negotiate, it might prefer that 4-6 coastal cities burn before their hapless victim can react.

Any extra hammers that goes into military needs to go into naval sentry forces and counter-navy. MILITARY alliances are more important than ever...you can probably secure 1 or multiple borders/sailing paths that way. We don't want 0 land troops, but if it gets to the point where 5 galleons full of even plain maces or muskets threatens multiple cities of ours, even if we're at tech parity or even a lead, we're going to have our cities burn. I've lost this way. I've beaten Lord Parkin this way as part of a 3v3v3v3 (2 monarch AI teams). It isn't pretty. We need as much early tech and productive power as we can muster, and that is NOT attained by going fishing first.

As for UUs, viking and dutch are murder. Viking have a significant advantage amphibiously for a long time, and dutch can literally blockade somebody to hell off a speed astro effort with little hope of defense. A blockaded island loses all foreign trade, INCLUDING resources. The ideal scenario is for them to do this to the vikings...we can only hope. Once frigates and airships enter the picture it's less skewed, but they're going to have a window and they will probably abuse it like nothing seen in SP.

Viking UB is excellent for water maps, probably better than the dutch version. Dutch UB is good but overrated. Coast tiles are marginal, especially to hammer cities, and will tend to be worked last. That said, we shouldn't screw around...their UU is so strong that we need to either ally or cut them early if this turns out really watery. Losing mass resource trade deals, :hammers: to work boats, and probably smaller cities is not fun. It's an L.
 
EDIT: :eek:Wow we are getting way off topic for this thread... So I moved my response.
 

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Posted by obsolete in the UN forum:

Well, I am quite interested on how this weird map turns out. The amount of times I've seen marble AND stone in my BFC I can probably count on both my hands. So needless to say our surprise at such a happy start this game. Though we suspected for balance that everyone had these in BFC.

HOWEVER... moving our warrior these last few turns has popped up many more of the same, yet nothing much else. The only way to make sense now is that everyone was given at least 2 monopolies. I'm not so sure that's a good thing, but time will see. I'm not complaining too hard, but it would be nice to at least have had the odd gold, silver, or gem somewhere. We have absolutely no commerce tiles and are not even financial here. Too much of the same thing isn't really nice tbh.

Or maybe I should keep my mouth shut until we finish scouting our landmass first.
 
Seeing as we have a lot of a couple of resources, there must be some truth in what he is saying. I find it hard to believe that he would just tell people what they had, so I doubt very much that their two resources are marble and stone. Those make getting wonders too easy, anyway. More likely they have a luxury and a health resource like we do, but we can be pretty sure that the starts are pretty mirrored in that aspect.
 
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