madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Pellanor, I am shadowing the game so I not exactly sure what etiquet is about advice. Obviously I do not want to commit any spoilers but I think I can offer advice for s econd city on the map you have attached.
Inspired by ALC: Qin Shi Huang - SE - Culture Win
- Thread starter Pellanor
- Start date
sw99
Random Entity
I'd switch to animal husbandry hopefully horses will be on your blank tile, masonry isn't needed for a while and I don't really see a stone city any time soon, too far away and the surroundings look bad. Move your warrior back west to see if there's any copper near those silks/corn. I'd also chop out 2 work boats then a warrior or two before a settler.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
This is often where I lose my warrior because of my greed and am forced to wait for another one to build, so be conservative with him. Scout a little, but make sure he's back in time to escort your settler. There's very little chance you'll get the stone, if the AI is spread normally.
It's only prince, so you have a chance at the gold. Slower 3rd settler, but you'll tech so fast. The "safe" settle is corn/cows, it's easier to defend and improve. No bronze yet, so it's either great wall (not industrious, no stone, so iffy), hope for horses, or get archery.
In the short term, you can either chop for your settler, or you could grow to 2 on a warrior (or fishing boat if you're feeling ballsy) while building a mine on the forest to the north (basically, switching production to a settler the turn you clear your forest, but you're building a mine because you want the mine anyway, and you want to delay the chop until you've grown to size 2). You'll need the warrior for your 2nd city anyway.
I forget the timing for normal speed, but it's 6 turns to grow to size 2 (22 food), 4 turns to build a mine, 2 turns to chop the forest, 1 to move there, so the mine should finish in 8. So revolt to slavery, so you grow in 7, switch to slavery, and if my timing is off, cancel your worker order the turn before you grow to 2, so after you grow, you can make sure the chop goes to the settler. Then keep chopping (at most 2 more forests) and whip first chance you get. This method saves a forest.
Then I'd get that 2nd worker building on a gold mine (or copper if you can find it) ASAP. You're creative, which is awesome, since you could delay settler 3 so you can grow city to size 2. Hell, that gold city is amazing. Oasis, gold, wheat, cows, 2 plain hills, and a grassland hill. You could use your capital to pump out settlers instead of your 2nd city.
It's only prince, so you have a chance at the gold. Slower 3rd settler, but you'll tech so fast. The "safe" settle is corn/cows, it's easier to defend and improve. No bronze yet, so it's either great wall (not industrious, no stone, so iffy), hope for horses, or get archery.
In the short term, you can either chop for your settler, or you could grow to 2 on a warrior (or fishing boat if you're feeling ballsy) while building a mine on the forest to the north (basically, switching production to a settler the turn you clear your forest, but you're building a mine because you want the mine anyway, and you want to delay the chop until you've grown to size 2). You'll need the warrior for your 2nd city anyway.
I forget the timing for normal speed, but it's 6 turns to grow to size 2 (22 food), 4 turns to build a mine, 2 turns to chop the forest, 1 to move there, so the mine should finish in 8. So revolt to slavery, so you grow in 7, switch to slavery, and if my timing is off, cancel your worker order the turn before you grow to 2, so after you grow, you can make sure the chop goes to the settler. Then keep chopping (at most 2 more forests) and whip first chance you get. This method saves a forest.
Then I'd get that 2nd worker building on a gold mine (or copper if you can find it) ASAP. You're creative, which is awesome, since you could delay settler 3 so you can grow city to size 2. Hell, that gold city is amazing. Oasis, gold, wheat, cows, 2 plain hills, and a grassland hill. You could use your capital to pump out settlers instead of your 2nd city.
I meant to post this earlier, and infact thought I had, but I must have closed the browser before hitting submit...
Just as long as you don't base your advise on anything that we don't know, like where Iron may pop, it would be greatly appreciated.
Industrious and Protective, not creative. Thanks for all the good advise though. I'll do the next round tomorrow night.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
I would put the second city so you can collect both one elephant and the gold. The bananas would also fall in the cities BFC once you get Iw and Calender. Build a road from Bejing to the river and you should have a fairly safe, barb free trade route.
Okay, here's the next batch.
First off I switched over to Animal Husbandry, from masonry. Then I took vicawoo's advise for getting the settler started out. I started building the mine, which was set to take seven turns, while working on a warrior.
Then I switched over to Slavery to whip the settler. I ended up needing another chop before I could whip though.
While my slightly wounded warrior was fog busting the path that my settler was going to head out on, I got a little extra bonus.
Around this time I finished researching Animal husbandry and sure enough some horses popped in that empty grassland right by Beijing.
Next up I founded Shanghai. I went for the Gold, Elephant and Banana, following mad scientist's suggestion. This leaves plenty of room for a coastal city or two to the south, and another city between here and Beijing.
I then completed researching the wheel and pottery. I'm planning to start on writing next, so I can start spitting out some scientists.
I'll have to grab Masonry soon if I want to be able to get the Pyramids for early representation. Here's what my tech tree looks like at the moment.
For the next round I need to decide between writing or masonry. Also I need to figure out where my next city or two will go, and when I should found them. I still think that stone's a bit too far away to hook up, but it would be really nice to get those pyramids out sooner. I'm thinking that 1N of the southern cows would make a decent coastal city, and 2W of the cows near Beijing would make for another decent city, though I would want IW before I settled by that much jungle. I'd also like to get a city up by the Pig and floodplains soon. That place would make a great GP farm.
And of course, here's the save game file.
First off I switched over to Animal Husbandry, from masonry. Then I took vicawoo's advise for getting the settler started out. I started building the mine, which was set to take seven turns, while working on a warrior.
Then I switched over to Slavery to whip the settler. I ended up needing another chop before I could whip though.
While my slightly wounded warrior was fog busting the path that my settler was going to head out on, I got a little extra bonus.
Around this time I finished researching Animal husbandry and sure enough some horses popped in that empty grassland right by Beijing.
Next up I founded Shanghai. I went for the Gold, Elephant and Banana, following mad scientist's suggestion. This leaves plenty of room for a coastal city or two to the south, and another city between here and Beijing.
I then completed researching the wheel and pottery. I'm planning to start on writing next, so I can start spitting out some scientists.
I'll have to grab Masonry soon if I want to be able to get the Pyramids for early representation. Here's what my tech tree looks like at the moment.
For the next round I need to decide between writing or masonry. Also I need to figure out where my next city or two will go, and when I should found them. I still think that stone's a bit too far away to hook up, but it would be really nice to get those pyramids out sooner. I'm thinking that 1N of the southern cows would make a decent coastal city, and 2W of the cows near Beijing would make for another decent city, though I would want IW before I settled by that much jungle. I'd also like to get a city up by the Pig and floodplains soon. That place would make a great GP farm.
And of course, here's the save game file.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Switching to slavery was actually because the mine finishes 1-2 turns after you grow, so you're minimizing "wasting" turns.
It's awesome that you have horses. I don't know BTS timing, but if AI wonder slower, you could try for oracle->metal casting, pyramid gambit. Metal casting is just amazing with industrious, and it'll help the oracle come out faster. Of course, you might not get the pyramids.
Your 2nd city is vulnerable to a barb attack from the south.
Your worker needs to get over to the 2nd city soon, and you might need a 2nd worker (if you're going to do any further chopping).
It's awesome that you have horses. I don't know BTS timing, but if AI wonder slower, you could try for oracle->metal casting, pyramid gambit. Metal casting is just amazing with industrious, and it'll help the oracle come out faster. Of course, you might not get the pyramids.
Your 2nd city is vulnerable to a barb attack from the south.
Your worker needs to get over to the 2nd city soon, and you might need a 2nd worker (if you're going to do any further chopping).
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
I suggest meditation/priesthood, then finish writing. You still have time to nail the oracle. Bejing is great for production and has forrests to chop still. Early metal casting is just so valuable to an industrious leader.
A city on the hill NE of the southern wheat is going to another production city. That would be three decent production cities to build wonders (might as well spread them out for a cultural victory. Enough food with the wheat, cow and oasis, some grasslands, plenty of forrests and hill.
Another city on the island to claim the rice evntually, and one north to get as many dye in the BFC (that's alot of commmerce once plantations are built). With the rice, corn, wheat and a granery health is not an issue for awhile.
Maybe one or 2 along the eastern river, which should get you 6-7 cities, you really would need one more for 8 and getting 2 catherdrals for each religion.
At a minimum I say put the next city between Bejing and Shanhai for the minimum of assuring good trade.
A city on the hill NE of the southern wheat is going to another production city. That would be three decent production cities to build wonders (might as well spread them out for a cultural victory. Enough food with the wheat, cow and oasis, some grasslands, plenty of forrests and hill.
Another city on the island to claim the rice evntually, and one north to get as many dye in the BFC (that's alot of commmerce once plantations are built). With the rice, corn, wheat and a granery health is not an issue for awhile.
Maybe one or 2 along the eastern river, which should get you 6-7 cities, you really would need one more for 8 and getting 2 catherdrals for each religion.
At a minimum I say put the next city between Bejing and Shanhai for the minimum of assuring good trade.
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Biggest problem I see is how you link up the trade routes..NO river trade, no coastal trade, so its roads only, this makes it necessary, IMHO, to set up a 3rd city to take in the corn and 2 silk in its fat cross, and link all 3 via road's.
This opens up trade routes, creates a buffer for non AI, invasion of spamming settlers, better barb defence, and grabs early resources, corn and late one's in the silk, gold will give 2 happy with forges, so the oracle/metal casting route seems good then collouses and pyramids. Your capital seems a great place for the great librairy/food specialists under a specialist economy
2nd city for military production, and 3rd commerace/cottages....but better sites may present themselves as time goes on..they allway's do, especially AI CAPITALS....
This opens up trade routes, creates a buffer for non AI, invasion of spamming settlers, better barb defence, and grabs early resources, corn and late one's in the silk, gold will give 2 happy with forges, so the oracle/metal casting route seems good then collouses and pyramids. Your capital seems a great place for the great librairy/food specialists under a specialist economy
2nd city for military production, and 3rd commerace/cottages....but better sites may present themselves as time goes on..they allway's do, especially AI CAPITALS....
My opinions:
The 2nd city is in a terrible location and really a bad choice for your 2nd city. Firstly its to far away from your capital draining to much gold this early also it has no food source to really work that gold efficently early. You need to farm a floodplain before you can work it if you want to grow. So it will grow slowly. Also barbarian defence there will be a pain. When you finally get that gold mine up a barbarian archer will most likely just pillage it.
I whould have placed my 2nd city 2W of the cow for 2 food sources (cow and corn). 4 hills and later 2 silk. It will grow faster, easier to hook up for early trade and grow fast with the food. Much food means more whipping and better settler/worker production so your capital can build wonders. Also much easier to defend early.
With three health resources it can grow to size 5 without being unhealthy before that jungle get chopped away.
Your capital is working on a granary, no need for that yet. either build another work boat, a chariot to defend shanghai or better a 2nd worker.
Also i whould really concider sailing for a gally to gain that floodplain across the river with the rice. Unless you saw an AI coming from there.
The 2nd city is in a terrible location and really a bad choice for your 2nd city. Firstly its to far away from your capital draining to much gold this early also it has no food source to really work that gold efficently early. You need to farm a floodplain before you can work it if you want to grow. So it will grow slowly. Also barbarian defence there will be a pain. When you finally get that gold mine up a barbarian archer will most likely just pillage it.
I whould have placed my 2nd city 2W of the cow for 2 food sources (cow and corn). 4 hills and later 2 silk. It will grow faster, easier to hook up for early trade and grow fast with the food. Much food means more whipping and better settler/worker production so your capital can build wonders. Also much easier to defend early.
With three health resources it can grow to size 5 without being unhealthy before that jungle get chopped away.
Your capital is working on a granary, no need for that yet. either build another work boat, a chariot to defend shanghai or better a 2nd worker.
Also i whould really concider sailing for a gally to gain that floodplain across the river with the rice. Unless you saw an AI coming from there.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Just to follow up on this
1) Bananas are in a jungle in the north although that needs to wait until calander and IW.
2) Horses are present in the capital for chariot defense.
3) A road can be built to reach the river. The third city bewteen the two will connect them and a chariot can protect the road.
4) Once hooked up Ivory and gold provide a huge happiness bonus to Bejing's production abilities, allowing 2 more mined hills to be worked.
5) Farms can be built on grasslands, there are three of the at the moment in teh second city. The elephants are on a grassland, so with the jungle cleared from IW and a camp it's 2 food, 2 hammers, 2 commerce (I think).
6) An AI or barbarian city is less likely to pop up between the current Bejing and Shanghai compared with the other way arround.
Your second city would make a fine third city.
I agree on the granery in Bejing, build chariots if the horses are hooked up.
Sailing is important but I still say gunning for the oracle and metal casting is the priority.
vicawoo, I know the switch to slavery was timed to minimize loss. I guess I didn't make that clear in my post.
Ankh, thanks for the advise. I'll probably use your city location for my 3rd city. I've only seen a lion across the sea there, so I don't think I'll have to worry about losing that area any time soon. Perhaps it'll be a good location for a fourth or fifth city.
madscientist, I just noticed a flaw in the plan. We need sailing to use rivers as a trade route.
As for going for the Oracle Gambit. I've found that on prince the pyramids generally get built around 500 AD, so we should have a fair amount of time. The tricky bit will be ensuring that we can get the forge built in the second city within six turns of the completion of the oracle. I tried that on my last game, but didn't quite get the infrastructure set up in my second city to pull it off.
Forge costs 120 hammers. Each chop within the fat cross gives 20 hammers. With a city size of two I can whip 30 hammers. If I can get to a size of four then I can whip 60 hammers.
My second city has four forests that can be chopped. I would need to get a worker or two over there pretty quick to make some farms if I want to be able to get up to a size of four for whipping.
I'm pretty sure this can be done, but it'll take a fair bit of micro managing.
For production in my capital, I'm working on the granary to speed up growth after whipping. If you don't think it's needed, I'll save it for later.
A chariot for some anti-barbarian defence would be a good idea. I also want a second worker who can start work on my 2nd city, to get ready for building the forge. After that I think I'll grab a warrior and a second settler to grab the cows, corn and silk. With whipping I should be able to get all that out by the time I'm done researching Priesthood, so that I can start on the Oracle right after. I'll try to get a good whip in on the last settler in order to get some extra production to speed up the oracle, if the timing works out.
Anybody see any major flaws in the plan?
Ankh, thanks for the advise. I'll probably use your city location for my 3rd city. I've only seen a lion across the sea there, so I don't think I'll have to worry about losing that area any time soon. Perhaps it'll be a good location for a fourth or fifth city.
madscientist, I just noticed a flaw in the plan. We need sailing to use rivers as a trade route.
As for going for the Oracle Gambit. I've found that on prince the pyramids generally get built around 500 AD, so we should have a fair amount of time. The tricky bit will be ensuring that we can get the forge built in the second city within six turns of the completion of the oracle. I tried that on my last game, but didn't quite get the infrastructure set up in my second city to pull it off.
Forge costs 120 hammers. Each chop within the fat cross gives 20 hammers. With a city size of two I can whip 30 hammers. If I can get to a size of four then I can whip 60 hammers.
My second city has four forests that can be chopped. I would need to get a worker or two over there pretty quick to make some farms if I want to be able to get up to a size of four for whipping.
I'm pretty sure this can be done, but it'll take a fair bit of micro managing.
For production in my capital, I'm working on the granary to speed up growth after whipping. If you don't think it's needed, I'll save it for later.
A chariot for some anti-barbarian defence would be a good idea. I also want a second worker who can start work on my 2nd city, to get ready for building the forge. After that I think I'll grab a warrior and a second settler to grab the cows, corn and silk. With whipping I should be able to get all that out by the time I'm done researching Priesthood, so that I can start on the Oracle right after. I'll try to get a good whip in on the last settler in order to get some extra production to speed up the oracle, if the timing works out.
Anybody see any major flaws in the plan?
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
So you are trying the second city forge gambit to get the GE for the Pyramids? Seams safer to try it the old building way in Bejing while getting a third city up and some more protection.
I think the river trade route works within cultural borders without sailing, so you need to build the road from Bejing to the Shanghai river. Once the Shanghai happiness comes in it's easier to build the pyramids by working 2 extra mines (3 if you have the forge in Bejing).
That said, there is a certain amount of glory in getting that GE in time to finish the pyramids in one turn!!!!!!
I think the river trade route works within cultural borders without sailing, so you need to build the road from Bejing to the Shanghai river. Once the Shanghai happiness comes in it's easier to build the pyramids by working 2 extra mines (3 if you have the forge in Bejing).
That said, there is a certain amount of glory in getting that GE in time to finish the pyramids in one turn!!!!!!
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Forges are half price for industrious, so you can do it with 10 production, 1 whip, and 1 chop.
If you use your second city, you're going to need food, real bad. Usually you get size 3 (1 for whipping, the other to run the specialist), though with only grasslands, 4 would be better. The capital would be nice, but I doubt the 2nd city can finish the oracle that fast.
Note about the ivory/gold: the capital doesn't have any more mines, at least on that continent. And unless they changed it BTS, you don't need sailing to trade on rivers.
And I'm forgetting that this is cultural, so you need religions, no?
If you use your second city, you're going to need food, real bad. Usually you get size 3 (1 for whipping, the other to run the specialist), though with only grasslands, 4 would be better. The capital would be nice, but I doubt the 2nd city can finish the oracle that fast.
Note about the ivory/gold: the capital doesn't have any more mines, at least on that continent. And unless they changed it BTS, you don't need sailing to trade on rivers.
And I'm forgetting that this is cultural, so you need religions, no?
Yeah, I think Pellanor needs to get in gear to found a religion soon. +5 culture per turn just for being a holy city is nice.
City#2 looked like a beautiful location before I realized that you need calendar for banana plantation. (however, banana farm is still 4 food, lol). However, with elephant+gold you'll be able to get high population cities early. It's good that the AI can't plop a settler there first, now.
If I were playing, I would definitely want my next city on the coastal plains-hill next to cow, near wheat. Good call. That city will have lots of food and some great mines too.
I've got a long round here.
Okay, I've switched over to a Chariot in Beijing, and Polytheism for research. My warrior got 21 gold from a hut as well.
I whipped the chariot right before I grew to size four. That got me 18 hammers overflow for my worker, speeding that up a bit.
It seems I'm fourth largest in the world. Wooh.
Then locusts hit my horse pasture by Beijing. I'll have to get my worker to fix that asap, though it added two turns on to my worker. I quickly brought my worker back to fix that one up.
Stonehenge was built in 1840 BC.
I research Priesthood in 1560, but my Settler is still two turns away from being whipped. I'm going to take a risk and get my third city out sooner. The oracle usually doesn't get built this early anyways. The borders of Shanghai also expanded, so I'll be mining that gold asap.
Guangzhou founded in 1400.
In 1040 BC Monotheism is researched, and Confucianism is founded in Shanghai.
My tech rate has really picked up now that I've got that gold mine. Writing's only going to take me four turns at 80% tech rate, rather than the 7 turns at 100% it was at the end of the last round.
In 950 BC I whip a warrior in Beijing to get an extra 15 hammers of overflow to finish off the oracle two turns earlier.
So in 900 BC, the oracle is built. I would be likely be too late to get the pyramids at this point in a harder game, but on prince I should have no problem to getting.
Darius also converted to Confucianism this turn. I think I should be able to get some good trades from him soon.
You may have noticed that I haven't picked a State Religion or switched to OR yet. Truth be told I kinda slipped up here. I was going to check to see if the 20 hammers to the oracle that I would have lost due to activity would have been made up for the +25% to production that I would have gotten, but I ended up forgetting as I was typing this all up.
In retrospect, since Confucianism hadn't yet spread to Beijing, I don't think the loss of turns would have been worth it. I'll be switching over right after I get my forge built.
It occurred to me at this point that I wasn't philosophical, and have probably just hosed myself by trying for a Great Engineer. However I've got 35 turns until I get an engineer, or upwards of 40 to build it the normal way, so I'm going to stick with the plan.
After getting Writing and Sailing, I'm moving on to Iron Working. Hoping to get another strategic resource.
I have to stop working the Gold Mine in order to get the Engineer going. This is slowing down my tech rate and putting me into the red at 80%. However I'm hoping to get a scientist running in Guan soon, to help make up for the loss in tech rate.
I've gotten open boarders with three of the four Civs that I've met at this point. I also miss clicked at this point, making a trade I didn't want, so a quick reload was in order.
I traded Metal Casting and Sailing to Pericles for Alphabet and Iron Working. Then I traded Mysticism to Kublai Khan for Hunting. I've got a few other techs that they don't have, so I'll try to trade for archery soon.
Darius currently has a tech lead, but he's the same religion as me, so I don't expect any troubles.
Here's what the world currently looks like.
Iron's popped up down south, so that's where city #4 will be, with #5 likely be across the water.
Here's a few pics from the Foreign Relations.
I'm thinking of beelining to Music at this point, trading for any techs along the way that I need. I think I need to found cities # 4 & 5 soon, in order to claim those nice resources.
Next round will be at some point this weekend.
Okay, I've switched over to a Chariot in Beijing, and Polytheism for research. My warrior got 21 gold from a hut as well.
I whipped the chariot right before I grew to size four. That got me 18 hammers overflow for my worker, speeding that up a bit.
It seems I'm fourth largest in the world. Wooh.
Then locusts hit my horse pasture by Beijing. I'll have to get my worker to fix that asap, though it added two turns on to my worker. I quickly brought my worker back to fix that one up.
Stonehenge was built in 1840 BC.
I research Priesthood in 1560, but my Settler is still two turns away from being whipped. I'm going to take a risk and get my third city out sooner. The oracle usually doesn't get built this early anyways. The borders of Shanghai also expanded, so I'll be mining that gold asap.
Guangzhou founded in 1400.
In 1040 BC Monotheism is researched, and Confucianism is founded in Shanghai.
My tech rate has really picked up now that I've got that gold mine. Writing's only going to take me four turns at 80% tech rate, rather than the 7 turns at 100% it was at the end of the last round.
In 950 BC I whip a warrior in Beijing to get an extra 15 hammers of overflow to finish off the oracle two turns earlier.
So in 900 BC, the oracle is built. I would be likely be too late to get the pyramids at this point in a harder game, but on prince I should have no problem to getting.
Darius also converted to Confucianism this turn. I think I should be able to get some good trades from him soon.
You may have noticed that I haven't picked a State Religion or switched to OR yet. Truth be told I kinda slipped up here. I was going to check to see if the 20 hammers to the oracle that I would have lost due to activity would have been made up for the +25% to production that I would have gotten, but I ended up forgetting as I was typing this all up.
In retrospect, since Confucianism hadn't yet spread to Beijing, I don't think the loss of turns would have been worth it. I'll be switching over right after I get my forge built.
It occurred to me at this point that I wasn't philosophical, and have probably just hosed myself by trying for a Great Engineer. However I've got 35 turns until I get an engineer, or upwards of 40 to build it the normal way, so I'm going to stick with the plan.
After getting Writing and Sailing, I'm moving on to Iron Working. Hoping to get another strategic resource.
I have to stop working the Gold Mine in order to get the Engineer going. This is slowing down my tech rate and putting me into the red at 80%. However I'm hoping to get a scientist running in Guan soon, to help make up for the loss in tech rate.
I've gotten open boarders with three of the four Civs that I've met at this point. I also miss clicked at this point, making a trade I didn't want, so a quick reload was in order.
I traded Metal Casting and Sailing to Pericles for Alphabet and Iron Working. Then I traded Mysticism to Kublai Khan for Hunting. I've got a few other techs that they don't have, so I'll try to trade for archery soon.
Darius currently has a tech lead, but he's the same religion as me, so I don't expect any troubles.
Here's what the world currently looks like.
Iron's popped up down south, so that's where city #4 will be, with #5 likely be across the water.
Here's a few pics from the Foreign Relations.
I'm thinking of beelining to Music at this point, trading for any techs along the way that I need. I think I need to found cities # 4 & 5 soon, in order to claim those nice resources.
Next round will be at some point this weekend.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
oracle completed turn 79, priesthood turn 61. 2 turns for settler, so it took 16 turns to build? 3 from hill, 1 from city, 4 from horses, +50% from industrious, 150/12=12.5. I would have chopped a forest and whipped, since you're growing back super fast. Usually, you whip for an overflow into oracle (so hopefully near 30*1.5=45 hammers), chop (30 hammers), whip again (i don't recall the wonder penalty, so maybe 30 hammers). then you can get it in 4 turns (except for growth), ignoring happiness and regrowing problems.
If other races don't have stone and aren't industrious, it'll take them a long time to get pyramids. I'll assume they get a settler before pyramids, so that's 30 turns. 500 hammers, optimistically they'll have 10 production, 50 turns? It could be a little tight, but it's prince BTS.
Nice trade, alphabet and iron working are big on your list.
Don't know enough about cultural to comment much more. If I remember correctly, at some tech (printing press or liberalism or whatever), turn off research, build culture, and universal suffering to cash buy religious buildings, store up great artists, be nice to your neighbors. Should you start cottaging? Do you have your 3 main cities?
If other races don't have stone and aren't industrious, it'll take them a long time to get pyramids. I'll assume they get a settler before pyramids, so that's 30 turns. 500 hammers, optimistically they'll have 10 production, 50 turns? It could be a little tight, but it's prince BTS.
Nice trade, alphabet and iron working are big on your list.
Don't know enough about cultural to comment much more. If I remember correctly, at some tech (printing press or liberalism or whatever), turn off research, build culture, and universal suffering to cash buy religious buildings, store up great artists, be nice to your neighbors. Should you start cottaging? Do you have your 3 main cities?
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Going pretty well so far. I think you will get the GE for the pyramids in time. Music is OK but you really need to get COL, via trade or self tech as well as currency. Also, what tech opens the sixteenth chapel in BTS now?? If you miss the pyramids with the GE, use him for the chapel. Also you need the elephants hooked up soon. And of course the sooner you get drama the better. I agree on iron city and the other continent.
The oracle was slowed down a bit because I whipped the Settler, so only had two population that could work the first few turns, then once I had three they worked on the mined hills, horse and clam. When there was only a little bit left on the oracle I put one turn's work into a warrior, then whipped him to get and extra 22 hammers overflow. Had I chopped it would have shaved off a few more turns, but my workers were busy connecting resources.
I'm going to try for a late game cultural win powered by the sushi co, so I won't be stopping research for some time.
What's the reason for getting CoL early? Is it just for Bureaucracy?
Music is the tech that gives the Sistine Chapel. Along the way is Aesthetics and Literature, both of which have some really useful wonders (parthenon, statue of zeus, great library). It'll also let me get the cathedrals, which are great for boosting culture.
I'll be playing this round later today.
I'm going to try for a late game cultural win powered by the sushi co, so I won't be stopping research for some time.
What's the reason for getting CoL early? Is it just for Bureaucracy?
Music is the tech that gives the Sistine Chapel. Along the way is Aesthetics and Literature, both of which have some really useful wonders (parthenon, statue of zeus, great library). It'll also let me get the cathedrals, which are great for boosting culture.
I'll be playing this round later today.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
COL for courthouses to cut maintenance and allow you to boost the science slider and you may be able to found confucism. . Civil service allows Bureaucracy. Definitely shoot for music if it allows Sisten Chapel..
