Instigating war

[Lockesdonkey]

I need an excuse to attack the Aztecs for their Rubber. I am certain of reaching my objective--the Aztecs are puny, and their military, while the same size as mine, is infinately less advanced--but I need a pretext for war, and having Montezuma declare war on me is greatly preferable to me declaring war on him, partly to eliminate the risk of a rep hit but mostly to prevent the Americans from attacking me on account of their MPP with the Aztecs.

I like to fight without rep hits...I seem to remember that in vanilla, if I got the AI really mad at me, then intentionally botched a spy operation, I could get them to declare war on me. I used this often in vanilla, but I never needed it in PTW or Conquests until now.

My question is, does it still work?

 

[Tomoyo]

Yes, it does.

 

[tR1cKy]

Weren't you the one who liked to play totally pacifist games?

BTW, i don't know if in PTW and more this odd behaviour has been corrected, but in vanilla it doesn't matter who is the one who declare. If there's a MPP between America and Aztecs, America will automatically declare once you move a unit into the enemy territory.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

I do prefer pacifism, but nobody has more than one source of rubber. I fight when I need to.

Due to this extraordinary state of affairs, I also signed an MPP with the Americans, so when Montezuma declares war, Lincoln will enter on my side. Simply because I don't go to war often doesn't mean I don't know its subtleties, and simply because I intend to go to war doesn't mean I abandon diplomatic finesse as the primary tool of my FoPo.

 

[Padma]

Just remember that Lincoln won't join you when Mony *declares*, he will join you when Monty attacks you in your territory. If you attack Monty in his territory before he attacks in your territory, you will trigger the MPP with Monty, instead.

 

[vmxa]

The moment you attack Aztec units in their land, your will trigger the Americans MPP. Best to get an MPP with the US and get Aztecs to attack your units in your land.

You can kill all the Aztec units in your land that you want with no MPP trigger.

 

[Dachs]

How far away is the Rubber, and how powerful (compared to you) are the Americans?

 

[wilbill]

the Aztecs are puny, and their military, while the same size as mine, is infinately less advanced--but I need a pretext for war, and having Montezuma declare war on me is greatly preferable to me declaring war on him, partly to eliminate the risk of a rep hit

If the Aztecs are that far behind you, why worry about the MPP? As far as a rep hit's concerned, if you declare war by going to the diplomacy screen and declaring "honorably" with none of your units in Aztec territory, you won't get a rep hit.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

How far away is the Rubber, and how powerful (compared to you) are the Americans?

The rubber is right next to the city I attacked, the Americans are a middling power, but their military presents a serious threat to the cities I'm taking (the Aztecs are just north of the Americans, who are just north of the Iroquois, who are just north of me, the Egyptians). The rubber is rather far away from my capital, but not devastatingly so.

I actually carried out my plan and it worked marvelously. I signed MPP with Lincoln and as luck would have it, his one with Montezuma expired the same turn. Not only that, Montezuma had a Cavalry in a Galleon floating aimlessly near an island with one of my cities on it; he foolishly attacked. I also got oil from this venture, and since I have Hills, Mountains, and Forests aplenty, I probably won't be wanting for Aluminum or Uranium. However, the Maya got to Tenochtitlan before I did, and it was sitting on Incense...

 

[Bluemofia]

These seems to work for me:

I declare war before entering their territory.
I get them horribly mad by demanding unreasonable-demands/cities repeatedly on the same turn, then fail a spy mission.

 

[Solomwi]

If you're going to go to war via botched spy mission, why not just declare and save the cash, since spy mission declarations don't give you any war happiness?

 

[Bluemofia]

I only use the spy mission one to make them declare war, and if I have deals that need to be stopped on the spot.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

If you're going to go to war via botched spy mission, why not just declare and save the cash, since spy mission declarations don't give you any war happiness?

I had a unit stuck in Aztec territory-- I sent a unit to explore an island, the Aztecs came with a Settler, and all of the ships I sent kept getting destroyed by American privateers aargh: ) so I couldn't move the guy--and I had ROP with Monty. Thus, it would technically be ROP rape if I declared war. And I had a lot of cash. So he declares war on me, and as it happened he had a boat in my territory, so it was ROP rape for him, and I preserve my reputation.

 

[Spike59]

I have a suggestion, but do not know if it would work. It seems to me that the best way to deal with this is to declare war on the Aztecs and then, before doing anything else, get America to become your allies. I think, and I am at work and cannot check it out, that having America declare war would supercede the MPP.

 

[Tomoyo]

I had a unit stuck in Aztec territory-- I sent a unit to explore an island, the Aztecs came with a Settler, and all of the ships I sent kept getting destroyed by American privateers aargh: ) so I couldn't move the guy--and I had ROP with Monty. Thus, it would technically be ROP rape if I declared war. And I had a lot of cash. So he declares war on me, and as it happened he had a boat in my territory, so it was ROP rape for him, and I preserve my reputation.

Why can't you just disband the warrior?

 

[TimBentley]

I have a suggestion, but do not know if it would work. It seems to me that the best way to deal with this is to declare war on the Aztecs and then, before doing anything else, get America to become your allies. I think, and I am at work and cannot check it out, that having America declare war would supercede the MPP.

I'm not sure, but I believe the AI is unwilling to sign a MA against its MPP partner (ie would never accept the deal).

 

[Solomwi]

I had a unit stuck in Aztec territory-- I sent a unit to explore an island, the Aztecs came with a Settler, and all of the ships I sent kept getting destroyed by American privateers aargh: ) so I couldn't move the guy--and I had ROP with Monty. Thus, it would technically be ROP rape if I declared war. And I had a lot of cash. So he declares war on me, and as it happened he had a boat in my territory, so it was ROP rape for him, and I preserve my reputation.

Gotcha. Makes perfect sense. Finally, a good answer to that question.