Intergalactic War

[crabapple]

It's not like a Stargate will just pop into existance out of nothing. They'd have to deliver it, just like any other weapon, and thus be faced with the Imperial fleet. The weapon does not become viable unless the navy is already defeated, at which time the weapon's existance is moot.

you forget that Atlantis is considered a ship and do have a stargate inside and therefor should be included in the battle and the gate weapon could consider a mini ship , witch means its possible without to much trouble

 

[nc-1701]

Wrong.

The plot lines of SW games are cannon, unless explicitly stated otherwise, or when in direct contradiction to the Movies. As are the EU novels, Comics, and other materials. Such is the policy in place.

Cheap...

When has a Borg Cube demonstrated firepower comparable to an ISD? (As per Base-Delta-Zero) And in terms of material stength, have the Borg ever managed to build a ship the size of a small moon, capable of surviving over 1000gs of acceleration? The Empire most certainly did.

Wolf 359 anyone? The Borg have highly adaptive shields that became completely immune to phasers after Picard was assimilated. There's no reason they couldn't adapt to Turbolasers as well.

Here we see numerous examples of things that interfere with the operation of Transporters, including high-power energy fields (Like... oh... I don't know... The shields of a warship.) They also have trouble beaming through large volumes of dense material, which Wars ships have in ample supply in the form of armour.

Federation Transporters yes, we have repeatadly seen the Borg transport through the shields of a warship though.

Also note how the DS2 was ablt to fire repeatedly during the battle, destroying numerous rebel capital ships, and the surface of either Death Star was covered in thousands of Gun batteries. (DS2's weren't working yet, but the first station showed us these surface guns in battle)

Yeah so?

As for 8472, their Planet-Killing weapon relies on inducing some manner of chain reaction in the target material (Evidenced by the fact that the planet they fired it on didn't explode until seconds after the beam had ceased) There's no way of knowing the amount of direct energy input, which would be all they'd have to work with to break down a Wars ship's shields. Meanwhile, they'd be getting quite thorougly exploded by high volumes of tubolaser fire.

But they are immune to any sort of attack, their shields/armor easily blocked everything the Borg/Voyager threw at them.

...entirely due to the influence of the Force. If anyone other than Luke had taken that shot, or if luke had relied on his computer, he'd have died in that trench and the Rebellion would have ended that day. (Proof - The other X-Wing pilot who used his computer to make the shot. He failed.)

What about DS2 Han took that one down...


Might I add that it is widely known that Federation shields are completely immune to lasers? As Indicated by Riker in an episode of TNG, clearly phasers are far more advanced than mere lasers.

 

[Perfection]

SG-1 could take on an alliance of Star Wars, Star Trek, and all the nasties in Stargate alone!

 

[Masquerouge]

may it be so, but its pretty useless weapon aganist shooting weapons

You obviously never watched Star Wars... Light sabers are REALLY good against shooting weapons.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Wolf 359 anyone? The Borg have highly adaptive shields that became completely immune to phasers after Picard was assimilated. There's no reason they couldn't adapt to Turbolasers as well.

What about Ion cannons, Proton Torpedoes, Concussion Missles, or any other manner of weapons from the SW universe?

Another advantage that a SW ship would have over the Borg (since that seems to be the chief ST nemesis) is that ST ships most often fire one shot at a time, which gives the Borg time to adapt their shields. SW ships, such as, let's say an Imperator II Class Star Destroyer, possess hundreds of batteries, capable of firing at once and in volleys, even assuming that the Borg could adapt to defend against Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Concussion Missles and Proton Torpedoes (all of which an ISD would have), they wouldn't be able to deal with that first volley that would get through.

What about DS2 Han took that one down...

Negative, ghostrider, Wedge Antilles and Lando Calrissian took down DS2. Han was on the surface of the Sanctuary Moon at the time.

Might I add that it is widely known that Federation shields are completely immune to lasers? As Indicated by Riker in an episode of TNG, clearly phasers are far more advanced than mere lasers.

Perhaps we're talking about different "kinds" of lasers. After all, we've no clue about the yields of the lasers in SW as compared to those in ST.

 

[crabapple]

You obviously never watched Star Wars... Light sabers are REALLY good against shooting weapons.

well yeah I guess they are, as long as you are fast

 

[Masquerouge]

well yeah I guess they are, as long as you are fast

Well Jedis are pretty famous for not being slow.

 

[Yuri2356]

Cheap...

Irrelevant.

Wolf 359 anyone? The Borg have highly adaptive shields that became completely immune to phasers after Picard was assimilated. There's no reason they couldn't adapt to Turbolasers as well.

Federation ships are vastly inferior in terms of power generation, speed, and durability to the Empire. A Cube's ability to destroy large numbers of Fed ships is inconsequential to the power difference between them and the Empire.

Borg adaptation is also simply a manner of optimizing their weapons and defences to most efficiently deal with the problem at hand. Throw enough raw power at them, and they will still fail. (Case in point, First Contact. The fleet Defending Earth was already starting to take small chunks out of the cube before the Enterprise got there and Picard got them all to concentrate their firepower) "Adapting" is not some kind of limitless superpower.

Federation Transporters yes, we have repeatadly seen the Borg transport through the shields of a warship though.

The operate on the same principals, with The Borg version simply being more refined. The sources of interferance need only be scaled up in magnitude to account for the difference in power between a Fed ship and Borg ship.

Yeah so?

So 'it took forever to shoot' is irrelevant. The DS2 had a decent refire rate on the Superlaser, and the DS1 can just use its insane number of surface guns.

But they are immune to any sort of attack, their shields/armor easily blocked everything the Borg/Voyager threw at them.

Wrong again.

Borg ships were still able to deal some damage to 8472's ships (one bioship is found with a hole blasted in its side by a Borg disruptor, and another seen much later was left behind during a retreat because it had been badly damaged) And they were eventualy defeated by using nanotechnology.

Even if they'd been completely untouchable to the Borg, it would only provide a lower limit for the durability of 8472's vessels, one far below the Empire's demonstrated firepower.

What about DS2 Han took that one down...

Lando took it down - By flying through a gaping hole in its incompleted structure and shooting directly at the main reactor. A Completed DS2 would have no such hole, its core safely encased behind hundreds of kilometers of Battlestation.

Might I add that it is widely known that Federation shields are completely immune to lasers? As Indicated by Riker in an episode of TNG, clearly phasers are far more advanced than mere lasers.

A No-Limits falacy, based on a line which has been taken entirely out of its original context. Riker said this with regards to a ship which was a small fraction of the Enterprise's size, and built by a species far less advanced than the Federation. He was scoffing at the other ship's lack of firepower, not the exact nature of the weapon. Later incidents in the series showed that lasers can be dangerous the Federation ships, most notably the cutting beam employed by the Borg when they first met.

SG-1 could take on an alliance of Star Wars, Star Trek, and all the nasties in Stargate alone!

This is the most convincing argument in favour of Stargate that's come up thus far. Unfortunately, it draws heavily on the awesomeness of Richard Dean Anderson, who's no longer a member of the team in Season 10.

 

[Perfection]

You all forget something, SG-1 is luckier then hell. I mean, nothing can touch them! They can get out of any jam, much more then any other butthead.

 

[Masquerouge]

You all forget something, SG-1 is luckier then hell. I mean, nothing can touch them! They can get out of any jam, much more then any other butthead.

Nothing can touch Obi-Wan either.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Nothing can touch Obi-Wan either.

Vader could.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

Vader could.

Obi-wan intentionally allowed Vadar to kill him.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Pfft, Obi-Wan was a drunk. He had no idea what was going on at that point - frankly I think he was as surprised as Luke when he actually pulled of the Jedi Ghost trick.

 

[zenspiderz]

This is thread is hands down winner of the 'nerdiest thread on CFC' award. Many congrats! Shame you can't get a girlfriend.

 

[Alan Bradely]

Okay, we've established (I hope) that Star Trek is likely third place, Star Wars's main advantage is volume of ships and armies, and Star Gate is orders of magnitude ahead in technology and 'Spiritual' type warriors (see Acsension, which is basically people becoming pure Force constructs, just for reference).

More stuff:

Protected by its incredibly powerful shields, an Ori battlecruiser is impervious to most known weapons. The only known defeat of a battlecruiser was when the Supergate was opened by SG-1 and the unstable vortex emerging from the gate destroyed the ship and the Antarctic based Ancient Drone Weapons (which occured in a alternate reality).

In other words, since the Sith et al. have no Gates/Drones (one of which might not work in this reality), and even the Asgard/Ancients can't scratch them, the poor fools in the Imperial Navy have no hope with their millenia obselete tech. Technically, One Ori BC could take all 25,000 star ships cited earlier (sorry for the incorrect numbers) and win.

Mark IX "Gate-Buster" bomb

Developed by Samantha Carter at Area 51, the Mark IX is a naqahdriah-enhanced nuclear weapon "designed solely for the purpose of vaporizing Stargates and anything else within a 100 mile/170 kilometer radius."This is no small feat, as Stargates have proven extremely durable. (See note below.) The bomb creates a multi-gigaton detonation. It has built-in safeguards that prevent it from being deactivated by electromagnetic countermeasures or any form of tampering. When the bomb was first used, it failed to destroy the gate in question, which was being protected by an Ori Prior. The second time the weapon was used, against an Active Stargate in the Pegasus Galaxy connected to the Milky Way Supergate, the Gate was successfuly destroyed and the wormhole disconnected.

A new variant (probably the production variant over the Beachhead 'prototype' version) of the Mark IX warhead was used in a prototype delivery system codenamed 'Horizon'. Six Mark IX Gatebusters in independent ballistic reentry vehicles made up the warhead load of a MIRV style orbit to surface weapons system deployed from the Daedalus class starship "Apollo", used in a First Strike against the Asuran home world shipyards. The warheads successfully deployed and detonated on their target, causing horrific damage on a planetary scale.

Secondly, your fleets will never be able to assemble into a force large enough to win by weight of numbers, because if they do...

 

[Yuri2356]

In other words, since the Sith et al. have no Gates/Drones (one of which might not work in this reality), and even the Asgard/Ancients can't scratch them, the poor fools in the Imperial Navy have no hope with their millenia obselete tech. Technically, One Ori BC could take all 25,000 star ships cited earlier (sorry for the incorrect numbers) and win.

Well, the Ori ships are certainly formidable, but until we see one get overwhelmed by raw power (Or survive enough punishment to put it far above War's ability to destroy) we have only lower limits for their strength. Likewise with their weaponry - Until we see them fail to destroy something, or fire on an inert target with known properties, we can't get a fix on their exact capabilities. Of any group in Stargate, they stand the best chance here against the empire.

The bomb creates a multi-gigaton detonation

So do most Medium/Heavy Capital ship guns in Star Wars, which their ships can withstand fire from.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

In this intergalatic war, is the goal to completely annihilate the other galaxies or to conquer them?

 

[Alan Bradely]

Re: Yuri.
Anything else within a 100 mile/170 kilometer radius is vaporized by them. And that's for Star Gate war ships, which have shields millenia years ahead in technology. Star wars ships would be shredded.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, multi-gigaton is not really all that impressive.

I saw the episode with the Ori BC, they completely smoked all comers. Now, I'm of the opinion that those 'comers' were nowhere near to levels that we see in StarWars, but that doesn't mean that the Ori ships didn't clean house.

edit: X-post: there's one term I have trouble with in sci-fi comparisons, it's "years ahead". Technology cannot be measured in years-ahead unless a rate-of-change is given. In what way are they 'millenia ahead' of others? Species can change the rates at which we acquire technology, which means that the timespan required to catch up is absolutely variable. (and, of course, this is why I request people help increase humanity's rate-of-change with regards to science - we can be much further ahead in a thousand years than if we don't try)

 

[Yuri2356]

Re: Yuri.
Anything else within a 100 mile/170 kilometer radius is vaporized by them. And that's for Star Gate war ships, which have shields millenia years ahead in technology. Star wars ships would be shredded.

No,

You've shown that Stargate ships are greatly threatened by Gigaton-level energies. The mid/heavy guns on Star Wars ships put out such energies with every shot (Even by some of the lower estimations of their firepower). Therefore, Star Wars weapons are a potent threat to Stargate ships.