But you forget, I have 3 kids of college age as well. Would it be easy for them to do that? Sure, but they dont. Know why? Because they know its wrong to do so.
You see, not every kid out there may think the same way those kids think. Some actually respect the law and will wait until 21 to go out partying like that. I know my kids have. Now, is that anecdotal? Sure, but its still proof that such kids do indeed exist, despite your thinking to the contrary.
No, I actually talk with my kids and have a good relationship with them like a good parent should. Imagine that.
Again, dont assume everyone lies to their parents and drinks behind their backs. They dont'.
I'm not sure if that is even anecdotal...
I know I speak without actually ever having met your kids MobBoss - nor you, for that matter, but I must say that the claim you are making seems extremely optimistic at best.
Personally, I didn't start drinking until I was 24, even though I've gone to lots of parties through my adolescence and until today. From what I know, technically everyone who drinks alcohol started around 14 to 16 years old. Among my fellow high schoolers, about 150 people, I can only count 3 people (including me) who started to drink after 18 (the legal age in Norway).
But I can assure you, very few of the parents knew - and most of those still don't know - that their kids were drinking. We often discussed how elaborate schemes many people invented to make sure their parents didn't find out they were drinking, smoking or having sex.
And my area should be one of the better ones in this matter. We were one of the earliest centres for adopting alcohol prohibition in Norway, and are traditionally quite "moral", being more or less a part of the Norwegian version of the Bible Belt. From what I know of the times my parents grew up, it seems a lot can change in a generation or two...
Your kids may be some of the few exceptions, but that seems extremely unlikely. You come across as a generally smart fellow, so its definitely not a far stretch to assume your kids are smart as well and able to fool you if they so choose. Add to that that most kids consider hiding that they are drinking as nothing more than a white lie, which will only hurt their parents feelings if they find out.
Again, I haven't met you nor your kids, but I find it extremely unlikely that none of them started drinking before 21.
Ask them when they're 40-something and well-established, whether or not they were drinking before 21. Then you can be fairly sure of getting a true answer.
How was I supposed to know it was a typing mistake?
You're smart, so you should have been able to pick up that that sentence was quite different in content than what else he has been posting. I admit I had to read it three times myself, but I did figure out that he probably had forgotten an "under" in the sentence.
I'm pretty sure Saudi Arabia doesn't have much of an illicit drug problem. Prohibition is a wide term with many different applications. Our version of prohibition doesn't work because people don't care. The penalties for it are not stiff enough to deter people from engaging in drug use. So people do drugs.
As I said earlier, prohibition is easier to manage in a stronger police state, like China, Iran or Saudi Arabia. But surely you are not arguing that we go down that route?
And for what it is worth, here is what I could find about drug problems in Saudi Arabia:
United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime: Saudi Arabia
There appears to be no significant transit trafficking through Saudi Arabia. However, there are considerable seizures of fenetylline (a stimulant known in the region under the brand name Captagon) in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and Turkey indicating a continuation of trafficking from production sites manly in Central and Eastern Europe into the country.
Under the Saudi Islamic Legal Code, drug trafficking is a capital crime and enforced on Saudis and non Saudis alike. There appears to be a decline in the executions in the past years. Nevertheless, this issue features regularly in reports of human rights organizations.
Data on drug abuse in Saudi Arabia is particularly scarce. It is generally assumed that the drug abuse situation in the country is not at an alarming level. However, the above mentioned trafficking of stimulants would seem to imply that these drugs are abused in Saudi Arabia at a significant scale. There is also abuse of cannabis. Reports also mention a rising abuse of heroin and cocaine, albeit at a low overall level.
Non Saudi addicts are jailed and deported. Saudis are usually sent to one of the three drug treatment hospitals in the country. Many observers note that cultural and social restrictions prevailing in the region may impede addicts from admitting to their drug abuse. There may thus also be a considerable amount of 'hidden' abuse in Saudi Arabia.
(From what I could find, there appears to be 11,000 drug rehab centres in the US = 1 rehab centre per 27,300 persons. Compare to 1 per 9.5 million persons in Saudi Arabia.)
Reuters: Saudi Arabia launches campaign to combat drug use (2007)
Saudi Arabia has embarked on a campaign to combat the spread of drugs in the conservative Islamic society whose burgeoning youth population must deal with the challenges of unemployment and strict religious rules.
[...]
"Drug addicts are ill and they need treatment, rehabilitation and monitoring," the veteran police chief said.
"Society needs to play its role in protecting against drugs ... I call on all experts, preachers, professors, media and parents to help make people aware about the danger of drugs."
There are no official figures on the number of addicts in Saudi Arabia.
[...]
Saudi Arabia puts drug traffickers, as well as murderers and rapists, to death by public beheading and the authorities regularly report several executions per month of Asian and African nationals for drug smuggling convictions.
IsraelNationalNews.com: Saudis High on Speed, According to Drug Abuse Report (25. July, 2010)
The lion's share of amphetamines being consumed in the Middle East is seized in Saudi Arabia, according to the latest global drug abuse report.
It is forbidden by Islam to ingest any intoxicant, or even to smoke tobacco – and in deeply conservative Saudi Arabia, “respectable” women are expected to cover themselves from head to toe if they set foot out the door. Nor do they generally walk through the streets without a male escort.
Whether it is despite or because of the restrictions on drinking and smoking, the 2010 World Drug Report, published by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, shows that Saudi authorities seized nearly 13 metric tons of amphetamines in 2008, out of a total of 15.3 metric tons in the entire Middle East.
The total amount of amphetamines seized throughout the world that year was 24.3 metric tons.
Matthew Nice, a UNODC amphetamine-type stimulants expert, told CNN on Friday, “I can't emphasize enough the size of this. Fifteen metric tons is absolutely huge. It's absolutely phenomenal. We're really struggling because the information base is so limited. It's definitely just the tip of the iceberg.”
One of the stimulants at the top of the seizure list is the pharmaceutical stimulant Captagon, which contains the synthetic stimulant fenetylline. It was invented in 1963 for use in treating Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), narcolepsy, and in some cases, depression as well. The product was taken off the market in 1986 after being listed by the World Health Organization under the Convention on Psychotropic Substances.
Narcotics producers in southeastern Europe have apparently been producing counterfeit Captagon tablets since the real thing was taken off the market in the 1980s. The fake, which also bears the Captagon logo, contains amphetamine mixed with caffeine and who-knows-what-else.
Not Just Amphetamines
However, it is not just amphetamines that are the problem, according to Professor Jallal Toufiq, founder of the Middle East and North Africa Harm Reduction Association.
Toufiq told CNN that all kinds of drugs are being abused in the region, and that abuse is growing. The problem, he said, is the lack of research and information.
“In the Middle East and North Africa region there's a huge void in terms of data and information,” he said. “For many countries there is a lack of political willingness because people just don't want to deal with this.”
As even turning to a strict police state will not really help stop drugs, I feel harsher laws are not the way to go to deal with this problem. Although, it might seem to help for a few decades (but at what price?)...
Also from your link that puts this into some perspective:
Adolescents Drink Less Frequently Than Adults, But When They Do Drink, They Drink More Heavily Than Adults. When youth between the ages of 12 and 20 consume alcohol, they drink on average about five drinks per occasion about six times a month, as indicated in Figure 4. This amount of alcohol puts an adolescent drinker in the binge range, which, depending on the study, is defined as “five or more drinks on one occasion” or “five or more drinks in a row for men and four or more drinks in a row for women.” By comparison, adult drinkers age 26 and older consume on average two to three drinks per occasion about nine times a month (SAMHSA 2006).
Huh?
Five drinks+ is binge drinking? Then I guess I've been binge drinking almost every time I'm drinking!
I would think 9+ drinks would qualify better for binge drinking.
Its not that they drink more often than adults, its that when they do drink, they do it in an abusive manner. They actually drink less frequently than adults. Why? Could it be because its harder for them to obtain the alcohol?
Would rational people drink more each time they are able to appropriate alcohol, or could it be that they do it because that is the "cool" thing to do?
What I mean is, is it not possible that when it becomes legal for them to drink, they have a greater tendency to stop acting like kids around something they aren't actually allowed to have, and instead behave more like adults and drink less and in more controlled forms?
Which reminds me, since the drinking age is much lower in, say, France than in the USA, and kids can thus start drinking legally at an earlier age, can anyone find some statistics of the number of alcoholics in France vs. the USA, or over how much people drink in the respective countries?
If I understand MobBoss' theory correctly, there should be a greater level of alcoholics and heavier drinking in France than in the USA. Would be interesting to see if that is really the case.
And what happens when currently illicit drugs have no criminal penalty and are widely and freely available?
I think Merk has a really good question here Nanocyborgasm. You need to extend your argument to account for what happens when the drugs become legal.
Do you favor cigarette smoking at home and in bars?
Personally, I would prefer it to be only at home or at designated smoking zones, much like tobacco smoking today.
