Intuitiveness of breaking out of unhappiness spirals

[Gokudo01]

@Gazebo doesn't unhappiness reduce growth in vp ? If no, then wouldn't it be a good idea to bring it back in order to reduce the newbies' inability to manually manage their towns ?

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

@Gazebo doesn't unhappiness reduce growth in vp ? If no, then wouldn't it be a good idea to bring it back in order to reduce the newbies' inability to manually manage their towns ?

I beleive it cuts food yields at the same rate as other yields (2% per point of unhappiness), while the vanilla game was binary. If you were unhappy even one point, growth would be slashed by 75%. Obviously this wasn’t ideal.

 

[neo_arcadia]

Whoa. 75%. Local unhappiness or empire-wide?

 

[chicorbeef]

Whoa. 75%. Local unhappiness or empire-wide?

In Vanilla.

I beleive it cuts food yields at the same rate as other yields (2% per point of unhappiness), while the vanilla game was binary. If you were unhappy even one point, growth would be slashed by 75%. Obviously this wasn’t ideal.

It's 1% per point of unhappiness IIRC. Anyway, when I think about it, it would make sense if Growth was actually reduced 2% per point as opposed to everything else being 1%.

 

[neo_arcadia]

Yes, yes. In Vanilla. Local unhappiness or empire-wide?

 

[chicorbeef]

Yes, yes. In Vanilla. Local unhappiness or empire-wide?

Empire-wide.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

It's 1% per point of unhappiness IIRC. Anyway, when I think about it, it would make sense if Growth was actually reduced 2% per point as opposed to everything else being 1%.

I would increase the penalty to 3%, with a maximum of 90%, but only touches the excess yields. Only excess food (growth), gold, faith. Faith isnt really necessary to fight unhappiness, reduced growth help staying at same pop and didnt increase needs and you didnt lose all your gold, denying the ability to buy fast some luxuries.
Science and Combat stay with 1% reduction and maximum of 20%.

 

[tu_79]

I kinda agree on this. Although I haven't done any empirical research, from my experience, I believe actualizing the potential of city seems more productive than simply aiming to fix distresses. What I mean is building something that will give the city the most. For example, improving multiple local resources with one infrastructure, building villages on hub cities, building powerful unique buildings, etc. The ultimate goal is to outpace rivals' development, keep up your development sustainably.

Bingo.

One thing that stroke me a few months ago is that the granary is not just about growing. If my citizens are working on 21 tiles (forest), and they can't work on a 22 hill because it would starve the city, suddenly the extra food from the granary allows my citizens to work on those productive tiles that I could not work on before, so I stop working the forest tile and start working the hill. My city is not growing much faster, but my city yields improve quite a lot.
This is, by having extra food from a building, I get extra gold instead of food as a product, thus reducing poverty. The same applies to other yields. When I have enough production thanks to development, I can stop working on some production tiles and work on other tiles that might give faith or culture or whatever I may need.

Of course, this is only the case when there are better working places available. Having more food when the only extra workplaces available just give more food is pointless.

 

[GoatsHeadSoup]

The problem is, this makes no sense. Why would you want to focus growth on a city while halting it at the same time? It seems entirely contradictory. When we go gold, I’m not sure how players who don’t go on the forums would figure something like this out. First impressions will count for a lot, and if new players boot up the game and don’t know the correct way to fix unhappiness, they will get frustrated and probably won’t come back. I’m not sure what the best way to convey it to players would be (a tooltip, civalopedia entry?)

Wouldn't the best solution be to compile a list of "beginners traps and how to avoid them" and stick it at the top of the civlopedia where people new to the mod are most likely to see it.

 

[tu_79]

Wouldn't the best solution be to compile a list of "beginners traps and how to avoid them" and stick it at the top of the civlopedia where people new to the mod are most likely to see it.

Do you mean my FAQ? It's pinned in reddit.

 

[Galbias]

I think the fact that you took a hit to growth when you're in negative happiness in BNW made sense honestly. The problem (besides the fact that the system itself was solely tied to the amount of happiness you could generate without any real ability to mitigate it like you can in VP) was how binary it was; 100% growth when you're in positive happiness, 25% growth as soon as you dip below 0.