MatrixTheKitty
Skitty
Okay, good set.
I guess Pewter City would be the logical choice for the name of the new city.
I guess Pewter City would be the logical choice for the name of the new city.
IO5 - Gotta Catch 'Em All!
- Thread starter IdiotsOpposite
- Start date
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
Yes, good set indeed.
Come on, it's north of Pallet and is near a stone mine. It's GOTTA be Pewter City.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Aww I thought Clamstone Copse was quite a good name because of the Keystone Cops connection 
Next tech should probably one of Writing, Iron Working or Pottery (if we switch to slavery and want to whip). We could also cottage along the river on the grassland.
I'd recommend the cow and bananas site next unless we really want to axe rush Asoka with 2 cities. His capital will be at 40% culktural defence by now, and we don't know whether it is on a hill or not.
Next tech should probably one of Writing, Iron Working or Pottery (if we switch to slavery and want to whip). We could also cottage along the river on the grassland.
I'd recommend the cow and bananas site next unless we really want to axe rush Asoka with 2 cities. His capital will be at 40% culktural defence by now, and we don't know whether it is on a hill or not.
MatrixTheKitty
Skitty
It is a good name. It's just not from the Pokemon games.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Oh everyone is a critic now!
I never played them, I heard they were good though.
I may have to delve into the accidental video game porn archive for my next Pokemon reference when I play the next turnset.
EDIT: e.g.
I never played them, I heard they were good though.
I may have to delve into the accidental video game porn archive for my next Pokemon reference when I play the next turnset.
EDIT: e.g.
Awesome about the Tin, a 6 production square this early is massive! 
I'm happy to go Mysticism, for some monuments.
Now, please don't take this the wrong way. Here is a defense of what I did, and a slight critique. Matrix wants to learn how to war better, but in reality, all victory conditions hinge on getting a good start.
- WB was kind of a place holder, it would have been useful for exploring, and eventually for Copper city. But warrior was a reasonable choice. Barbs will not enter territory until there 2 * (number of civs on map) + 1 cities. In other words, every civ must on average have 2 cities, and 1 civ have 3. Barracks is also a very good choice, for an axe rush.
- Fortified warrior was fogbusting. No barbs appear within 2 squares of any units. He was standing on a jungle/hill for maximum defense. The slow build up to 25% fortified bonus makes a warrior on a jungle/hill, almost invincible.
- Worker should have gone with first Settler, this is a golden rule of Civ4. This is one of the reasons we went for Sailing. The road to the new city does help us, but not much. Having the worker mine the copper the same turn the city is founded would have given us copper online by now, and city 2 working a very good tile. With the choice of Mysticism, city 2 can switch to monument and then Worker chops the nearby forest.
- You had some good and bad luck with the Warriors. Once they have explored enough for us to decide where the next cities will go, it is generally a good idea for them to fogbust. Remeber, the less barbs near us, means more barbs near the other AI.
I'm happy to go Mysticism, for some monuments.
Now, please don't take this the wrong way. Here is a defense of what I did, and a slight critique. Matrix wants to learn how to war better, but in reality, all victory conditions hinge on getting a good start.
- WB was kind of a place holder, it would have been useful for exploring, and eventually for Copper city. But warrior was a reasonable choice. Barbs will not enter territory until there 2 * (number of civs on map) + 1 cities. In other words, every civ must on average have 2 cities, and 1 civ have 3. Barracks is also a very good choice, for an axe rush.
- Fortified warrior was fogbusting. No barbs appear within 2 squares of any units. He was standing on a jungle/hill for maximum defense. The slow build up to 25% fortified bonus makes a warrior on a jungle/hill, almost invincible.
- Worker should have gone with first Settler, this is a golden rule of Civ4. This is one of the reasons we went for Sailing. The road to the new city does help us, but not much. Having the worker mine the copper the same turn the city is founded would have given us copper online by now, and city 2 working a very good tile. With the choice of Mysticism, city 2 can switch to monument and then Worker chops the nearby forest.
- You had some good and bad luck with the Warriors. Once they have explored enough for us to decide where the next cities will go, it is generally a good idea for them to fogbust. Remeber, the less barbs near us, means more barbs near the other AI.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Yeah I could have taken the worker with the settler but I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket. The road will help getting axes to and fro from city to city.
The worker is now 1S of Clamstone Copse. The worker being built in the capital is 2 turns to completion.
I was moving the warriors back but the one in the east got attacked by an archer and needs to heal and the one in the middle got bumped by culture and killed.
It's a bad idea to leave units fortified at the end of your turn set in case the next player doesn't notice them. EDIT: Also, a barb appeared outside the fogbust radius which would have killed the settler
Overall, no criticism just a bit of moaning on my part
The worker is now 1S of Clamstone Copse. The worker being built in the capital is 2 turns to completion.
I was moving the warriors back but the one in the east got attacked by an archer and needs to heal and the one in the middle got bumped by culture and killed.
It's a bad idea to leave units fortified at the end of your turn set in case the next player doesn't notice them. EDIT: Also, a barb appeared outside the fogbust radius which would have killed the settler
Overall, no criticism just a bit of moaning on my part
Yeah I could have taken the worker with the settler but I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket. The road will help getting axes to and fro from city to city.
The worker is now 1S of Clamstone Copse. The worker being built in the capital is 2 turns to completion.
I was moving the warriors back but the one in the east got attacked by an archer and needs to heal and the one in the middle got bumped by culture and killed.
It's a bad idea to leave units fortified at the end of your turn set in case the next player doesn't notice them. EDIT: Also, a barb appeared outside the fogbust radius which would have killed the settler
Overall, no criticism just a bit of moaning on my part
Good point about the Warrior near the stone!
Totally agree about leaving units fortified/asleep, but that is why I posted the detail in my turn report
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I think the warrior I built in the capital exxed the stone barb when the worker was building a road on the forest, and he was protecting him, hence why he has 1xp.
Workboat was clearly nuts because the capital had no defence at all. I built a barracks because I wasn't happy starting the worker when the cap was size 3 and not working the mine.
Workboat was clearly nuts because the capital had no defence at all. I built a barracks because I wasn't happy starting the worker when the cap was size 3 and not working the mine.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
If we are going to axe rush Asoka, we are going to need at least 6 preferably 9 or 10 axes.
If his capital is on a hill 6 isn't nearly enough - he'll be at least 40% culture defence by now (as our capital is with no cultural buildings).
He's spiritual so can switch to slavery as soon as we arrive. And whip archers. Axes are slow.
Did he not found a religion as well (+5 culture per turn in the Holy City?) - if the Holy City is the capital, ouch.
We really need writing to check out his cities and defences before "rushing in" with however many axes we think we need
If his capital is on a hill 6 isn't nearly enough - he'll be at least 40% culture defence by now (as our capital is with no cultural buildings).
He's spiritual so can switch to slavery as soon as we arrive. And whip archers. Axes are slow.
Did he not found a religion as well (+5 culture per turn in the Holy City?) - if the Holy City is the capital, ouch.
We really need writing to check out his cities and defences before "rushing in" with however many axes we think we need
MatrixTheKitty
Skitty
I do agree that we should scout him out first before rushing in.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Well the other rush possibility is Alex (aggressive) or Qin (protective) IIRC...
Alex is going to attack someone at some point, he always does.
We have stone and a nice banana/cow site. We could chop the pyramids after maths and with Iron Working have nice food under jungles. Then we could get a healthy tech lead.
We really need to tech to Industrialism anyway to get all the resources, we're in this for the long haul.
Alex is going to attack someone at some point, he always does.
We have stone and a nice banana/cow site. We could chop the pyramids after maths and with Iron Working have nice food under jungles. Then we could get a healthy tech lead.
We really need to tech to Industrialism anyway to get all the resources, we're in this for the long haul.
If we are going to rush anybody, it has to be Asoka, he is so close.
I would say we only need about 6-7 Axes, especially with the Barracks.
He will only have at most 3 Archers. The only problem I can see is if he is on a hill.
I'm not set on rushing him. I can take no for an answer.
I would say we only need about 6-7 Axes, especially with the Barracks.
He will only have at most 3 Archers. The only problem I can see is if he is on a hill.
I'm not set on rushing him. I can take no for an answer.
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
I also support rushing Asoka. Since Tokugawa is Aggressive, those Axeman coming out of that double-speed barracks are going to start with Combat I and City Raider I, with just 2 XP to City Raider II. That's about +55% on five, which is in total about 7.63. Now, let's assume Asoka's archers have City Garrison I (really, they can't have more than that). Let's assume 40% and also include the possibility of 60% culture, and also assume the possibility of both with and without hills. This creates four possibilities.
Case I: No hills, lower culture. Archer has 70% defense with CG I, followed by another 40 from the culture. This is a total of about 110%, giving this archer a total power of 6.30 with a first strike. 7.63 is greater enough than 6.30, although I still would bring 1.5 axemen for every archer just in case. So 5 axemen for this situation.
Case II: No hills, higher culture: Instead of 110%, we have 130%. This gives the archer a strength of 6.90. Now we're close to 7.63, and here I'd start to worry. For this situation, I'd bring 5-6 axemen for 3 archers.
Case III: Hills, no culture. Hills add +25 on their own, and +25% more for archers. so instead of 110%, we have 160%. This is 7.80. Here, I'd go with 6-8 axemen for 3 archers.
Case IV: Hills, high culture: Add 20% to 160% to get 180%. Here we get 8.40. OUCH. 9-10 axemen for 3 archers is what I'd do here.
Just a bit of analysis to think about.
EDIT: Also, with city raider I considered instead of City Raider II, raise each number by two. This means that we HAVE to know how his capital is!
Case I: No hills, lower culture. Archer has 70% defense with CG I, followed by another 40 from the culture. This is a total of about 110%, giving this archer a total power of 6.30 with a first strike. 7.63 is greater enough than 6.30, although I still would bring 1.5 axemen for every archer just in case. So 5 axemen for this situation.
Case II: No hills, higher culture: Instead of 110%, we have 130%. This gives the archer a strength of 6.90. Now we're close to 7.63, and here I'd start to worry. For this situation, I'd bring 5-6 axemen for 3 archers.
Case III: Hills, no culture. Hills add +25 on their own, and +25% more for archers. so instead of 110%, we have 160%. This is 7.80. Here, I'd go with 6-8 axemen for 3 archers.
Case IV: Hills, high culture: Add 20% to 160% to get 180%. Here we get 8.40. OUCH. 9-10 axemen for 3 archers is what I'd do here.
Just a bit of analysis to think about.
EDIT: Also, with city raider I considered instead of City Raider II, raise each number by two. This means that we HAVE to know how his capital is!
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Well if Brian decides to prepare for a rush I'd recommend teching writing so we can get open borders and have a look.
Remember with 40% culture it will take 2 turns to reach his cap after a DoW and he will whip at least 1 archer in that time.
If he has horses and chariots we'll need to get hunting and build a spear or 2 as well.
Remember with 40% culture it will take 2 turns to reach his cap after a DoW and he will whip at least 1 archer in that time.
If he has horses and chariots we'll need to get hunting and build a spear or 2 as well.
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
Yeah, it really is up to Brian. When he gets back, he'll have a lot of thinking to do.
By the way, does anyone know where Brian is? Neil, Paradigm, you speak British, right? Could you ask him?
(I assume the Irish speak British)
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Yeah the Irish speak British unless he talks in Gaelic I PM'd him to say he is up next.
EDIT: Although to be fully understood you need to add "so it is" and "to be sure" into every sentence.
EDIT2:
American: "Dude, it's your turn Brian!"
English: "I say old bean, it's your turn next"
Irish: "It's your turn now Brian so it is. To be sure".
I PM'd him to say he is up next.EDIT: Although to be fully understood you need to add "so it is" and "to be sure" into every sentence.
EDIT2:
American: "Dude, it's your turn Brian!"
English: "I say old bean, it's your turn next"
Irish: "It's your turn now Brian so it is. To be sure".
Whoa, don't poke the bear guys.
Aussie: "Mate, it's your bloody go"
Is Asoka in Slavery at the moment?
No need for spears, speed is everything in an Axe rush. By the time we have writing and OB, we will probably have built enough Axes to almost start the rush.
Aussie: "Mate, it's your bloody go"
Is Asoka in Slavery at the moment?
No need for spears, speed is everything in an Axe rush. By the time we have writing and OB, we will probably have built enough Axes to almost start the rush.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I don't think Asoka is in slavery but he's spiritual so he will be if we DoW.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
For all the above impertinence I'm going to say the following as Gaeilge:
Tá sé agam. Beidh mé in ann imirt ar an cor amárach go luath. Bhíos abhaile ag ghearradh na crainn chun an daichead casúr breise a fháil.
Ok looking at the save we can really go each way. If I rush Pallet will go finish worker, worker, Axe, Axe, Axe, Axe, etc (I'll chop and slave the axes). Pewter will go Monument, WB, Lighthouse, Axes.
However we can also go peaceful here and if we do it expeditiously we could get as much as what I've dot-mapped in the pic below, The north Pig city will be a powerhouse by CS, CowSpiceBananaRice speaks for itself, and RiceSugarBananaGems will be a good GP farm. Only problem is all that jungle, which would mean immediate changeover to IW for chops.
Personally I prefer the "If you wish for war, then prepare for war route", but that's my inner Gallóglaigh talking. With chops and slaves and later Pewter help we can take out Asoka. Also we can do a bit of colonising out of Pewter if we want to instead.
P.S. I will be giving all units Pokemon names during my turnset, there are over 490 current speices out there that should be enough.
Tá sé agam. Beidh mé in ann imirt ar an cor amárach go luath. Bhíos abhaile ag ghearradh na crainn chun an daichead casúr breise a fháil.
Ok looking at the save we can really go each way. If I rush Pallet will go finish worker, worker, Axe, Axe, Axe, Axe, etc (I'll chop and slave the axes). Pewter will go Monument, WB, Lighthouse, Axes.
However we can also go peaceful here and if we do it expeditiously we could get as much as what I've dot-mapped in the pic below, The north Pig city will be a powerhouse by CS, CowSpiceBananaRice speaks for itself, and RiceSugarBananaGems will be a good GP farm. Only problem is all that jungle, which would mean immediate changeover to IW for chops.
Personally I prefer the "If you wish for war, then prepare for war route", but that's my inner Gallóglaigh talking. With chops and slaves and later Pewter help we can take out Asoka. Also we can do a bit of colonising out of Pewter if we want to instead.
P.S. I will be giving all units Pokemon names during my turnset, there are over 490 current speices out there that should be enough.
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