Ironworks

[Ronin228]

What's a good placement for this? I was thinking of putting in my military city with Heroic Epic so I can pump out units fast, but I'd also like to put West Point there. Also, when it says "+50% with iron" "+35% with coal" or whatever, does that mean I must have coal or iron inside the city radius where I build Iron works? Or must my Civ just have access to thos resources? I can't find documentation about it.

 

[ArmoredCavalry]

I like this in my #1 production city, this is where I DON'T pair with the HE as it is just overkill. if you produce a unit per 1-3 turns in 2 cities, isn't that better then 1 unit in 1-2 turns in 1 city?

If you have access to coal and/or iron (they are in the trade network) then you get the bonus. (it's 50 50)

 

[Sisiutil]

You just need to have access to those resources, you don't have to have them within ANY city radius, just within your cultural boundaries, improved, with a road or railroad to them. Or have a very nice civ trade them to you.

The HE + WP combination makes sense. You will probably find that HE, in a good production city, enables you to produce military units very quickly, and you probably won't find much of a benefit from Ironworks.

Furthermore, the HE city should, ideally, be producing nothing but military units. Your IW city becomes, by far, your best production city. So guess what you'll want to build there?

WONDERS!!!

So for several turns, your best military unit-producing city is NOT producing military units. This makes no sense. Put West Point with Heroic Epic and put IW elsewhere.

Ironworks comes along late in the game, and I've recently had my eyes opened to the benefit of putting it in a counter-intuitive location: a city with lots of river and grassland tiles for watermills and workshops.

Usually those are commerce cities or GP farms. But once you have Steel, you already have Guilds (+1 hammer per workshop) and you're not far from Electricity (+2 gold per watermill) and Communism for the State Property civic (+1 food from workshop, watermill). Throw in a really good production resource and you can have an amazing production city, even if you have to replace a lot of mature cottages to do it.

Side benefit: if the city itself is on a river, you can easily build the Three Gorges Dam there.

As for other national wonders with good synergy: If you want to use your IW city for military production, of course you can; you may want to build the Red Cross in this city for units with an automatic Medic I promotion. Or, if this city is a holy city with a shrine, build Wall Street there. If you want to try to produce as many Great Engineers as possible for late game wonders, you could build the National Epic here, usually long before IW is available, and convert its farms to workshops and watermills when the time comes, then run all those Engineer specialist IW grants you.

 

[Pantastic]

I agree with Sisiutil; heroic epic and EDIT: West Point just naturally go together for a constant stream of veteran units, while ironworks is better for wonders and the occasional unit. I usually build heroic epic in my best early production city, the point for it is to get it built and start pumping out cheap units. Later on I'll probably find or capture a better production city, or I can make one with the state property + workshop/watermills trick - that's where I'll pop down the ironworks, and that city will probably be building wonders pretty much constantly once it's got IW+factory+power. As a side note, I usually only build coal plants in my HW+WP and IW cities, the others can wait for three gorges, hydroplants, or nuclear plants, but the cities that are all about producing should get every edge.

The iron and coal for the ironworks only need to be availible, they don't need to be in the city radius. It's this way for all improvements that give a bonus with a resource; the +1 happy from incense in a cathedral or +1 health from sea resources with a harbor just require it in your trade network, not in that city.

 

[Zombie69]

I agree with Sisiutil; heroic epic and ironworks just naturally go together for a constant stream of veteran units

You mean Heroic Epic and West Point.

 

[cabert]

I just missed the unnatural combo national epic + IW!
(already built GL in the GP Farm, so oxford was better)

Must try it, sometime.

 

[ChicagoCubs]

HE + WP in my #2 or #3 production city. This will put it on par with my main production city in terms of unit production. This will be my attack unit production center.

IW + RC in my #1 production city. Since my need for garrison or support units is lower than attack units, I can still use this city to build wonders. Even better if it is a coast city and you can produce medic transports.

Other National Wonders...

FP + Hermitage in a capture city that will serve as a strong point for me in the future.

National Epic + Globe Theatre in my GP farm since I am nuts about the growth of it.

 

[cabert]

IW + RC in my #1 production city. Since my need for garrison or support units is lower than attack units, I can still use this city to build wonders. Even better if it is a coast city and you can produce medic transports.

don't forget that IW gives unhealthiness
you can use a hospital there!

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

On Marathon it could make sense to put IW and HE together because of the massive production costs on longer games, and you could get your three promotions using Barracks+Theocracy+Vassalage+Pentagon.

 

[ownedbyakorat]

Heroic Epic should be paired with West Point. Ironworks has an entirely different purpose - this is where you build late-game wonders and much of your space program.

 

[misterrat]

You just need to have access to those resources, you don't have to have them within ANY city radius, just within your cultural boundaries, improved, with a road or railroad to them. Or have a very nice civ trade them to you.

I forgot that you only needed access to iron or coal in a recent game, and invaded a peaceful neighbor just to get a city with both iron and coal.

 

[Paeanblack]

Heroic Epic should be paired with West Point.

Or paired with Globe Theater 1000 years earlier so you can whip military units at ludicrous speed.

 

[cabert]

I forgot that you only needed access to iron or coal in a recent game, and invaded a peaceful neighbor just to get a city with both iron and coal.

well, a city with iron and coal is bound to be a production city anyway!
It's a good move to take it for you, rather than leaving it to a potential space racer.

 

[cabert]

Anybody tried coal and iron denial against space racer (making IW less effective) ?

 

[Sisiutil]

Anybody tried coal and iron denial against space racer (making IW less effective) ?

I usually target their aluminum. If they're far away I'm loathe to risk my many-turns-to-replace spy on too many resources, but I'll keep that idea in mind if the race is very close.

 

[playshogi]

Or [Heroic Epic] paired with Globe Theater 1000 years earlier so you can whip military units at ludicrous speed.

YES!! This is very underrated. Put it in a high food city, with barracks and theocracy, who needs West Point?

 

[juballs2001]

i usually pair ironworks with globe theatre in the number 2 city.
then i place heroic epic and west point in another city

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

i usually pair ironworks with globe theatre in the number 2 city.
then i place heroic epic and west point in another city

Odd combination - what advantage do you see to pairing Ironworks with the Globe?

 

[juballs2001]

it gives me two strong production cities... and if the H.E/W.P city has enough hapiness, it gives me two cities that can crank out strong military in few turns

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Anybody tried coal and iron denial against space racer (making IW less effective) ?

After aluminum, I like to go for any happy or health resources that aren't duplicated (and after that, go for the ones that are!). Those are never guarded, so your spy has a very high rate of success, and it affects every city in the empire. Once you knock out a few health resources, go spy on some cities and watch them starve.