[R&F] Irrational AI Diplomacy: Trading Tip

[eleven11]

So, here you are dealing with Chandragupta and really want open borders (or a nice Relic/Great Work) to generate some tourism. Why? Because you like to live dangerously. The problem is, you've spent the last 750 years slaughtering his invading elephants and he hates your guts because you seeded in right next to him. Jerk.

You go for a fair offer... Open Borders for Open Borders. Chandragupta scoffs and counters with your offer plus 68 gpt. Such a jerk... If you only had muskets he'd be in the dustbin of history.

So you remove the 68 gpt and toss him Open borders plus 100 gold for his Open borders. Sold! Thanks, jerk! Say, those are nice relics you got there... how much? 171 gold per turn? Ridiculous! How about 700 gold? Sold!

So if you ever have an civ demonstrating irrational hatred but really want something.. try dealing with lump sums of gold. You can get it for a fraction of their initially stupid counter.

Sorry if this is common knowledge. I have 1000 hours in Civ 6 and just realized this fact!

 

[Timodelphia]

News to me. Thx.

 

[Question]

Thats because lump sum of gold is valued much higher than GPT, because GPT can get interrupted via wars.

 

[King Victor I]

I have only had the game for a short time, and while I have not experimented with offering lump sums vs. GPT, I have found that the AI will offer me more than 30 lumpgold in place of 1 GPT.
When selling luxuries, I always zero out the GPT then get as much lumpgold as possible, unless their treasury is low.

It seems really crazy for the AI to value 1 GPT more highly than 30 lumpgold when its their gold, and less highly when it's mine.

FWIW I always play Marathon. I don't know if that changes anything.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I am sure you all know this but if you want to abuse the AI you can sell your art or relics or music for just about everything the AI has. It works on the same turn you acquire the Art. It seems you can trade it for a bunch of Art, Gold, GPT, extra copies of Luxuries or Resources. This makes Theater Squares OP but you might feel dirty making these trades... I don't really care about exploiting bugs. This isn't much different compared to rolling the AI or CS's through War. Not much difference when you steal settlers or builders or many of the other ways to take advantage of the Deity AI.

 

[Morino1914]

I don't really care about exploiting bugs. This isn't much different compared to rolling the AI or CS's through War. Not much difference when you steal settlers or builders or many of the other ways to take advantage of the Deity AI.

You really don’t think this is an unfair exploit? It can’t possibly be similar to stealing settlers and waging war?

AI have you denounce, have twice your military strength and a golden opportunity to declare war. You get a great writer and immediately sell it to him for all his money and deny him the possibility to pay for his army and to declare on you. This is clearly a bug/exploit.
You can even buy a book from him for the regular 20+ gpt to make space for the book you just got and sell that for 4x that sum you just payed.
I call cheat on this

 

[Fluphen Azine]

You really don’t think this is an unfair exploit? It can’t possibly be similar to stealing settlers and waging war?

AI have you denounce, have twice your military strength and a golden opportunity to declare war. You get a great writer and immediately sell it to him for all his money and deny him the possibility to pay for his army and to declare on you. This is clearly a bug/exploit.
You can even buy a book from him for the regular 20+ gpt to make space for the book you just got and sell that for 4x that sum you just payed.
I call cheat on this

I didn't make the game. Settlers running around unprotected and people stealing them for free isn't cheating? The Devs can't fix that?? I had a game and the AI attacked me with 5 builders?? I took all of them... cheating lol?? Players getting the AI to war with each other to weaken them isn't cheating?? The list goes on and on! The AI used to peace out of War and sell all of their cities and resources. They finally fixed that issue and now you are telling me they can't fix this one? As a matter of fact they never fixed that for the lifespan of Civ V and for a few years with Civ VI... obviously the Devs want that in the game. The Devs know this problem exists. I find no difference in this cheat compared to any others. I just finished a game playing as Korea. You want to talk about Cheating...lol. That Civ is completely broken. I was more than double the AI in tech right from the start. I rolled 3 Civs and sent them to the dustbin before turn 100. The whole game is set up to cheat. You want to chop and move Magnus to every city and use the 100% Limes or Navy Cards and build wonders in a few turns or districts in 1 turn!? For me the game is nothing but exploit and you get to choose how much you want to exploit the game. I paid hard earned American Dollars for this game and the Expansion and even some of the extra Civs they sold... talk about cheating!! You want to talk about cheating talk about how they could of made one more expansion for Civ V and cleaned that game up a little better instead of creating Civ VI and pushing for yet another Cash Grab... lol... cheating!?

 

[Morino1914]

Settlers: yes, steal them if you can. In single player I send them out unprotected most of the time, if escorted sometimes the AI unit might stumble on more important jobs like killing barbs or something. And in my recent 4-5 games I can’t remember stealing more than a single settler early game so in my opinion not a big problem. Not cheating.

Korea is strong, and even stronger if you play them right. They’re designed that way, and AI could play them the same way. If you’re good at the game they might be too strong. Not cheating.

Warring isn’t broken, it’s just too complicated for coders to make AI do the right thing all the time. And yes they’ll make crucial mistakes because priorities shift from turn to turn. I made a lot of mistakes when I was new at the game, and still make a lot now. Not cheating.

Magnus chop is OP if used with overflow and pre building with appropriate card. There’s nothing wrong with abusing mechanics if you have the patience and ability to manage it right, and by all means I do it too. Not cheating.

Your in-game experience and know-how makes you able to abuse and exploit certain features with the game either by reading and analyzing the rules and effects, or by learning from forums and others who dissects every aspect of the game. The information is there to find if you’ll choose.

Selling a book for 3000gold + 88 gpt the same turn it’s made vs getting the correct price (22+ gpt?) the turn after? Something seems more cheating than the others.

But I’ll guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Try to play a bunch of Deity Games on Pangaea without using War and only Defending and see how much more difficult the game is and how much of an exploit/cheat War is Either way I know you all have your morals and play a "certain" way but for me I feel just as dirty when I get 3-5 Eureka's through War or if I trade the AI for a bunch of GPT/Artwork/Resources in an unfair trade. TBH trading with the AI has always been glitched or unfair but when the AI is making 175gpt on turn 45 I don't feel so bad and it makes sense to earn Sun Tzu and trade that Art of War! The Devs released this game and for a few years allowed it to have the trade bug in it. It took less than the day one release to figure out if you moved trades around in the trade screen that you could get over on the AI... I don't understand having this problem for over 10 years. It seems to me that the Devs want you to choose to either abuse the AI through trade or decide not to. Personally I don't mind it. Civ VI is one of the most easy Civ Versions in my experience.

Not much difference in my statements or beliefs compared to the OPs thread title and post. As a matter of my opinion I felt my first post in this thread was completely on topic.

 

[EditorRex]

I still miss selling the AI our useless maps. Whatever version that was.

 

[Victoria]

The whole trade thing ruins the game for me. Since day 1 there has always been some way to get huge amounts of gold irrationally. I play by my rules so it does not really affect my games but it is yet another weird Firaxis thing.

 

[eleven11]

I don't really consider my original submission an exploit as much as an option to pay lump sum instead of an insane amount of gpt. The AI still charges a decent amount of lump sum gold but it's easier to swallow than their gpt offer. An example is relic cost. The AI might request 150 gpt (4500 gold) but you can buy it lump sum for 700 gold now. With how the AI values lump sum over gpt that might make sense..

However, I've noticed a gold exploit with joint wars. Is this known? If not how do I submit to Firaxis?

Spoiler Spolier for exploit :

Basically it's possible to exploit joint war negotiations by countering the "What would it take" offer from the AI. Maybe it was a special circumstance in my game so I'm not sure if it's repeatable. I'll have to try again tonight. Basically I was able to have multiple AI Civs pay me large sums of GPT for the pleasure of joining my war. Ok then... thanks?

 

[Victoria]

If not how do I submit to Firaxis?

There is a sub forum under General discussions for bugs. Firaxis do read it.Make your you read requirements before posting.
I need to post one about that terrible bomber AA screen but need a real world save before I do so.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The whole trade thing ruins the game for me. Since day 1 there has always been some way to get huge amounts of gold irrationally. I play by my rules so it does not really affect my games but it is yet another weird Firaxis thing.

Gold brokering abusively with AI has been a thing since at least Civ 4, which is when I started taking civ games seriously in any capacity. It wouldn't surprise me if it takes back to the start of the franchise though.

 

[EditorRex]

The whole trade thing ruins the game for me. Since day 1 there has always been some way to get huge amounts of gold irrationally. I play by my rules so it does not really affect my games but it is yet another weird Firaxis thing.

Remember early Vanilla Civ V on Deity, in which Wealth of the AI was the very means to defeat them, one of several exploits that only worked at what was supposedly the highest difficulty setting? They nerfed this somewhat eventually. Might have been when G&K came out.

 

[row2infinity]

So, here you are dealing with Chandragupta and really want open borders (or a nice Relic/Great Work) to generate some tourism. Why? Because you like to live dangerously. The problem is, you've spent the last 750 years slaughtering his invading elephants and he hates your guts because you seeded in right next to him. Jerk.

You go for a fair offer... Open Borders for Open Borders. Chandragupta scoffs and counters with your offer plus 68 gpt. Such a jerk... If you only had muskets he'd be in the dustbin of history.

So you remove the 68 gpt and toss him Open borders plus 100 gold for his Open borders. Sold! Thanks, jerk! Say, those are nice relics you got there... how much? 171 gold per turn? Ridiculous! How about 700 gold? Sold!

So if you ever have an civ demonstrating irrational hatred but really want something.. try dealing with lump sums of gold. You can get it for a fraction of their initially stupid counter.

Sorry if this is common knowledge. I have 1000 hours in Civ 6 and just realized this fact!

awesome tip, I had no idea. I usually give up negotiating all together as a warmonger haha...

 

[Nineliveslost]

I need help. I dont understand the entire trade mechanics with computer. They want an absurd amount for their stuff and next to nothing for mine. Do you guys actually trade with the computer ?

 

[Morino1914]

You’ll need a better relationship with them. And they’ll need to want what you have. If they have 4-5 luxuries and only 6 small cities then they’ll probably don’t need more amenities.

And if they don’t like you they’ll demand a lot for theirs.

 

[Nineliveslost]

I guess that makes sense.I have never played a "nice" game.mostly warmonger and abandoned the diplomatic and trade part of the game. I shall try it