Is average feminism holding back equality?

sween32

The Worthless
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I'll understand if this thread gets closed, because it could easily turn into a bashing or a misunderstanding. I just want to know if the normal everyday feminism is holding back women's advancement into a mans world. I'm not talking about the extremists who don't shave their body hair just to defy a mans world, i'm talking about everyday feminism.

I believe in true equality, where a woman can get a job just because of their skills and not because they have a chest. I hear women talk about it all the time, and it's great. But when they don't get a job because a man has more skills at the job, they say the it was a sex issue. Confuses the hell out of me.

Yes, women should have equal rights. BUT they make it a point that they still want all the great things that comes with being a woman like getting things just because you flirt with a guy. And when they don't they get pissed. If we try to flirt to get what we want, then it's sexual harrasment. Hell, if we even flirt it's sexual harrasment. And they want to have Women only golf clubs but God forbid if there's a Mens only gold club. Isn't that MORE rights? It ain't ganna work.

"Porn is degrading to women". Ummm... they're doing it willingly and isn't that actually what feminism is fighting for?

Feminism is everywhere. On TV, the radio, everywhere. All you hear about is "female impowerment". Well, here's something to think about: The average guy who isn't a sexist DOESN'T CARE. Not in a sense that we don't want you to have equal rights, just that the more you complain about it the more we toss it aside. How many of you guys have changed the channel or radio station once somebody says "female impowerment"? In my eyes they are equal so I just roll my eyes and change the channel or stop listening to the conversation.

Yes, it was necissary to speak loud and take action before, and there are many women heros out there who changed the entire world by fighting for women rights. Women excede at many jobs better then men that used to be just a mans job. Women have a better perifial vision and more agile bodies, making them better soldiers but worse snipers (men being hunters consintrate on a single object better, but have next to no perifial vision. that's actually why men get caught looking at other women more often, while women are usually the ones who look at the other sex more often). But as an example, making a big deal that you can't be a sniper isn't going to help you be a sniper. It's going to make things worse. Be quiet and prove it.

The best way for simple creatures like the male gender to pay attention to you is to show them up without the loudness and entire episodes of Oprah.

There will ALWAYS be sexists no matter what you do. Just as there will always be rascists. It's a fact of life. But right now, there's a perfect oppertunity to prove equality and maybe even female superiority by actions, because all the fighting to make it a law has already been done for you. You just need to prove it to the people.

EDIT: Not all of this is my own view. Just stuff that have run thru my head on the topic. I tend to try and understand all views and try to explain them all without saying which one I agree with. It's a terrible thing to have. I get into conversations and end up defending the side that I disagree with. :rolleyes:
 
You may need to answer this question for yourself.

I get the impression that feminism bugs you, but I can't say why that is, except that I see inner conflict.

Sorry. I hope this thread heats up. Maybe I'll join in then.
 
Go the chicks!

I am a believer in female empowerment, and think that some men just can't stand seeing a woman getting an upper hand.

Now, THAT is something that is a fact of life.
Certain men live in the past, and cannot abide the modern woman.

:D
 
Originally posted by Sean Lindstrom
You may need to answer this question for yourself.

I get the impression that feminism bugs you, but I can't say why that is, except that I see inner conflict.

Sorry. I hope this thread heats up. Maybe I'll join in then.

You think? Maybe... although I wouldn't know why... it wouldn't surprise me. My GF is a shrink so I know how little things can effect people without them realizing it and doing them for other reasons.

i've edited my first post a few times since i posted it, addign stuff and stating things more clearly so you might want to read it again.

BTW, you seem to know alot about psychology. Do you?
 
Originally posted by CurtSibling
Go the chicks!

I am a believer in female empowerment, and think that some men just can't stand seeing a woman getting an upper hand.

Now, THAT is something that is a fact of life.
Certain men live in the past, and cannot abide the modern woman.

:D
Exactly, Curt. Things like sufferage have made EVERYTHING better, because women truelly are smarter and a better gender then us.

It seems to me that they're fighting a war that's already been won, though. Laws have been changed and women legally have equal rights. So drop that, and go and prove it. Which they have, but it's distracted by the feminist PC movements that really don't have any effect at all. Like you said, some men can't stand seeing a woman getting an upper hand. It takes a long time to change individuals, and the feminist attitude makes it worse. The best way to prove somebody wrong it to show it, not say it or sue them.

True equality would be that it doesn't matter if a woman is the first person to walk on Mars, just that we did it. Of course, true equality is not possible. But acceptance is. Nobody ever got into a good place by kicking and screaming. Look at the doors that have been opened by peaceful liberators all over the world thruout history. They proved it by doing it. Not by filing lawsuits and writing books about men being pigs.

EDIT: I'm not saying they shouldn't take a stand and speak out, because they should. But I just think that it's slowing things down. Things need to be done for equality, but the way it's being handled isn't going to work. Besides, this is getting off the topic. I'm not going to defend myself because I know I'm not sexist, I just want to hear your opinions about if feminism is slowing equality down.
 
Originally posted by sween32

My GF is a shrink so I know how little things can effect people without them realizing it and doing them for other reasons.

A shrink and a feminist? You're toast, man. Or very lucky. She must be amazing.

BTW, you seem to know alot about psychology. Do you?

I'm more comfortable projecting than reflecting, and I know a bit of psychobabble.
 
Originally posted by Sean Lindstrom


A shrink and a feminist? You're toast, man. Or very lucky. She must be amazing.

I'm more comfortable projecting than reflecting, and I know a bit of psychobabble.
Well, I find myself talking about her more then I do about myself in this forum so that might be a hint of how much I love her. She's great. Some of this does stem from her, though. Like she has a bumper sticker that says "Choice: What a Wonderful Right". I'm all for choice, but the bumper sticker just annoys me. I think I have a problem with "wackos". People who are so into things that they do more harm then the good they intended to do. Even if I agree with what they're fighting for, I still want to beat them. She's not a wacko by any means, but it reminds me of it and probably worries me that she might be thought to be one. I don't want her to be shot by some Pro Life wacko because she has a Choice bumper sticker. Also when there's something on TV with women dancing and she says it's degrading... it just confuses me because they wouldn't be able to that... i don't know maybe i'm just looking too far into it.
 
I guess my frustration with sexism today is many women wanting to hold on to female privileges and stereotypes where it suits them.

I learned a lot about female superiority when I had a baby. Just a few women I know refrained from making comments about my natural inferiority as a parent. I hear remarks about competent fathers being "well trained", for example. It seems incredible that some men can be a better-skilled parents than their spouses, but I see this while certain women are blind to it.

I whined in another thread that my least favorite chore is picking up my wife's socks and things off the floor in the morning. If the sexes were reversed with this behavior, I'd be the typical male slob. There are things my wife does that I don't bother with, like tidying the three-hundred and forty-nine toys strewn about the livingroom, so I shouldn't complain. My point is that I sense a taboo against asking my wife to do the dishes ever because I feel that would be sexist, and she likely feels that she does them, being female, even when she doesn't.

Women's work is hard, and inaccessible when kept exclusive from men. I think women should try to encourage and accept men in sharing the load, just as many men have made efforts to help women into traditionally male workplaces. Equality runs both ways.
 
I think your girlfriend is right about porn, sween32. What the camera doesn't show us is the lovely line of coke waiting just off set for when the model finishes her job. Addiction is the prime motivator in the porn industry and sex trade, so these girls and women are little better than slaves. The Johns don't have to think about this, and don't have to know.
 
Oh come on you two, it's VERY easy to slip into a "them and us" kind of thinking when it comes to feminism. Dont get caught up in it and just remember to treat men and women the same - simple as that. That way you wont have any "issues" when asking your wife to do the washing up or whatever - because you be asking her as an equal not as "a man" whatever that means.

Sexual harassment is not flirting - it is continued unwanted overtly sexual advances being made towards a woman (or man, rarely) - it should be pretty obvious where the line is if you have any concept of how to relate to people.

Men should have nothing to fear from feminism and talk of women "having it both ways" is rubbish - if you feel someone around you is taking advantage of the system by exploiting the fact that they are a woman then they are no worse (or more numerous) than a person getting a job using their personal contacts (old boys network etc) or some other less than entirely honest and fair means of getting ahead (of which there are hundreds)

Remember that if you avoid "taking a stand" or turning life/work/marriage whatever into some "battle of the sexes" and relate to each person you meet as an INDIVIDUAL first and foremost then life is pretty easy to cope with and, most likely, we'd have the kind of equality women seek.
 
Originally posted by Rodgers
Sexual harassment is not flirting
on this side of the pond it is.

Originally posted by Rodgers
Remember that if you avoid "taking a stand" or turning life/work/marriage whatever into some "battle of the sexes" and relate to each person you meet as an INDIVIDUAL first and foremost then life is pretty easy to cope with and, most likely, we'd have the kind of equality women seek.
so you agree with me then, because that's my point.
 
Is it your point? Sorry I must have lost sight of it.

Well, anyway, feminism is no big deal - dont worry about it. Worry about whether you treat people right or not.
 
yeah i put alot of stuff in there that got away from my point. it's basically this:

there's no need for a constant reminder. without it, things would be better because eventually the problems in the society would be fixed. the next generation would know less about sexism because there would be less people to remind them. then the next generation would know less then them, etc. the laws for this to happen are already made, so use them. don't abuse it and take it too far by forcing us to think a certain way. give us a reason to think that way.

see. now i feel like a jerk, and this is the reason why i got off topic because now i have to explain that women have given us a reason to think that way but it's blinded by and underated by the feminists themselves. but i won't because i already explained it.
 
I don't really understand why women feel the need to be seen as equal to men in everything. Men certainly don't feel the same way. Women claim it's a man's world, but I strongly disagree with that. Women drive the world more than men do. Men usually excel in business because of the drive to impress women, who are 99% of the time the ones who reap the benefits of a successful man.

I think men have a certain drive that women don't, just because of evolution and biology. It's that drive that enables them to just a little bit better in nearly everything...music, art, business, politics, engineering, sports, fighting...all of these are for the most part dominated by men. Just look at the animal world. A male peacock has those beautiful tail feathers, male gorillas are huge and powerful. For what reason? to impress the babes. Humans are the same way, but the human female is better benefitted by finding a mate with exceptional skills than one that looks flashy. Superior skills are the human equivalent of flashy tail feathers.

That's just the scientific side of me speaking. Discrimination is completely wrong, and it is terrible that women don't get paid as much as men for similar jobs.
 
women are better. if you bled every month like that, you'd go insane. what it takes just to deal with their own body takes enormous strength that a man wouldn't be able to handle. hell, if i bled like that just ONCE i'd be scarred for life.
 
Originally posted by thestonesfan
I think men have a certain drive that women don't, just because of evolution and biology. It's that drive that enables them to just a little bit better in nearly everything...music, art, business, politics, engineering, sports, fighting...all of these are for the most part dominated by men.

(snip)

That's just the scientific side of me speaking. Discrimination is completely wrong, and it is terrible that women don't get paid as much as men for similar jobs.

I think that this is the attitude that feminists are trying to change. The notion that men are inherently superior to women in "nearly everything."
 
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