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Is Aztec UA really as bad as I think?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by OneRedBlock, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. OneRedBlock

    OneRedBlock Chieftain

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    I mean, any civ can get their ability by choosing the honor opener. It's ridiculous.
     
  2. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    And the civ that does so has burned a social policy that the Aztecs don't have to burn, increasing that civ's cost of every subsequent policy.
     
  3. Maniac

    Maniac Apolyton Sage

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    The Aztec ability is cumulative with the Honor opener.
     
  4. Asklepios

    Asklepios Warlord

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    Also, isn't this a separate bonus from the Honour Opener? As in, if they then take the Honour Opener they get two culture boosts?

    Mostly though, given that early policy adoptions are such a big part of strategy, any UA that gives you the effect of one of them for free is pretty damn good.
     
  5. szcott

    szcott Chieftain

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    The honor opener also gives you barb camp locations, very important now that barb horseman love nothing better than to pillage.

    Also their UA applies to all enemies, not just barbs. Play on higher levels and see how many units the AI will throw at you.
     
  6. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    So if Aztec had the honor opener and its ua, then there would be more culture generated than the other civilizations rather than only the honor opener by itself.
     
  7. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Since civs are balanced as a whole rather than by their constituent parts, you might think that their UA is a little weak, but it is balanced by a fine UU and an excellent UB.
     
  8. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    It's an outstanding UA on immortal and deity (I used to say emperor too but the AI doesn't produce at that level like it used to). They can rival Poland for SoPols with some healthy warmongering plus they get the shielding effects of the culture too.

    Honor opener is effectively doubled by it. I think they're one of the few civs who can finish tradition faster by adopting the honor opener early. Nothing like getting 14+ culture for every barb kill.:D
     
  9. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    Indeed.
    Aztec with the honour opening on a barb hunt gathers culture quite quick.
     
  10. Denkt

    Denkt Returned

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    It allow flexibillity you don't get from other civs, you can get policies at a decent rate while skipping the culture game.

    That allow you to for example delay the monoument for quite a while and if not you will very likely gain policies somewhat quicker then useally.
     
  11. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    The UU really synergizes (is that a word?) with the honor opener and their UA. The double movement in forest/jungle along with the start bias makes them almost as good as scouts and +25 health on the killing blow means they almost never have to stop and heal when killing barbs.
     
  12. Arcaian

    Arcaian Warlord

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    One example of this:

    My friends and I were playing together at a LAN party, and for fun we decided that we'd do a Huge map with only 6 players (3v3), with raging barbarians. There were an incredible amount of them, and one of my friends and myself picked the Aztecs. Build order pretty much went scout -> jaguar -> jaguar -> jaguar -> jaguar. Honour opener + Aztec boost = about 14 culture per brute killed, and often it'd be 2 or more a turn. 28 culture per turn is actually ridiculous, combined with your base cpt and we finished both honour and tradition by about the time we got into the medieval age, and this was on quick! Very powerful in the right circumstances. Luckily I also was next to 7(!!!!) lake tiles as the Aztecs, and so my second and third cities were extremely large, and I was isolated on my own island so I pretty much dominated the science of the game whilst my two friends used the massive scientific advantage to dominate the enemy.

    Tl;dr:

    Having Honour, Tradition and Rationalism finished and a couple of policies to spare by the time you get to ideologies is very, very powerful, combined with the floating gardens makes Aztecs a very potent civ.
     
  13. GoStu

    GoStu King

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    It's really good for the early game. I always take Honor opener with it and go hunting. It's better on higher difficulties as there's more units to use it with. You can complete Tradition VERY fast with it as every kill is more or less a turn's worth of Culture. Played aggressively enough, I have had Tradition, Honor, and most of Rationalism before charging through Autocracy.

    People give Poland a lot of credit for extra social policies, but there's a solid window where the Aztecs will have their Gardens, upgraded Jaguars, and a couple extra policies, and Poland has... a couple extra policies.
     
  14. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    It's pretty good. It also works tremendously with the Jaguar, as Jaguars can heal themselves when they kill enemy units, making them rampage through barbarians really fast. If you play on raging barbarians you can complete honor at super ridiculous speeds.

    it's not the best UA, but it gives you an early game benefit to spamming their early UU, which is nice because jaguars keep their promotions upon upgrading. Normally civs can't get a lot of early warriors or an early army because they'll fall behind in every other measure, but the extra culture and ease of killing barbarians makes an early army a nice immediate payoff and a nice investment for the Aztecs.
     
  15. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

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    "heal" enemy units? Suddenly, Jaguars have become misunderstood medicine men? :mischief:
     
  16. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    Pretty sure that the Sacrificial thing also affects ALL killed units, not just barbarians.. right? Something that only they can do, because as far as I know the Honor opener only affects Barbarian units.
     
  17. Arcaian

    Arcaian Warlord

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    C'mon, we both know he meant heal when kill enemy units :p
     
  18. Arcaian

    Arcaian Warlord

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    Honour opener affects only Barbs, but the closer affects all. Aztec UA affects all.

    Effectively it allows you to get honour + gold from late game wars, and massive honour from early barb fighting, combined with the UU it's pretty great.
     
  19. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

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    I do kinda wish that the Aztec UA would grant them Faith instead of Culture, seems much more fitting with the historical sense of it all. I'm quite sure that if the Aztecs were introduced in G&K, they'd have just that ability.

    The thing with the Aztecs though is that they're much more then just the UA. The UA helps them early game by hunting Barbs to give their policies a kickstart, and mid-game wars ensure they keep a steady flow of culture making them annoying to break by Tourism. They also have a cute UU (Play with No Obsolete UU mod for maximum fun), but the real gem of the Aztecs is the Floating Gardens.

    Dem Cities Be Huge.
     
  20. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

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    :lol:
     

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