Is Infinite City Sprawling (ICS) strategy finally defeated???

[polypheus]

It is clear that the new features and game engine very much attempts to defeat the ICS strategy as being the optimum and viable one in favor of more balanced and realistic expansion. So is ICS finally defeated once and for all???

Or is ICS simply ******** but it at its core ICS is still there as the optimum strategy?

 

[Pyrion]

It's gone. Maintenance per number of cities, not necessarily based on distance from capital, plus it appears to be hardcoded to not allow city building within two squares of another city.

 

[Dida]

I think grabbing more land is still very crucial.

 

[niffweed17]

if you implement ICS, you will not survive for very long (at least on difficulties above chieftain)

 

[Zhahz]

You can't expands nonstop immediately as you almost always do in Civ3.

However, you can easily have huge empires as long as you select the right civics, techs, and you build the appropriate buildings.

You can still expand at a decent rate if you pace yourself well.

As the game progresses the map will be full of cities (assuming typical setups) and the AI still builds cities on utterly crap spots. It just takes a lot longer to build up the appropriate infrastructure to support growth over time.

 

[polypheus]

if you implement ICS, you will not survive for very long (at least on difficulties above chieftain)

I remember when Civ 3 first came out that people thought ICS was "solved" because the 2 population hit would make settlers very expensive. But instead what happened was ICS was simply slightly ******** and delayed. But what people did was to found cities in flood plains but with high shield bonus tiles nearby and whalla, instant settler factory which could easily absorb the 2 pop hit cost! And once this factory was setup, then you and the AIs would claim every single square tile of land by 1AD. It was disappointing because Civ 3 was really no less of an ICS race game than Civ 2.

So at the heart of my question is this. Is Civ 4 fundamentally still a settler "race" game in the beginning like before? If so then they have not fundamentally solved it at all!

 

[LostKing]

Well, I've seen perpetually small kingdoms surprise me with a space race win. So, I'd say it's pretty dead.

 

[Eisernes]

People say ICS is gone because they want to believe it is. The truth is it's still the best way to go. Once you have two cities you can pump settlers out of one and units out of the other and get ten cities for every three the AI gets. It's that way on Noble anyway. I haven't played a higher dificulty yet. It's an even more essential stragety now with the emphesis on resources. Grab them all and choke the life out of your rivals.

 

[polypheus]

People say ICS is gone because they want to believe it is. The truth is it's still the best way to go. Once you have two cities you can pump settlers out of one and units out of the other and get ten cities for every three the AI gets. It's that way on Noble anyway. I haven't played a higher dificulty yet. It's an even more essential stragety now with the emphesis on resources. Grab them all and choke the life out of your rivals.

SIGH...So disappointed that this is the case. So it looks like the settler "rush" is still on...So fundamentally nothing is really different.

 

[guyfamous]

So at the heart of my question is this. Is Civ 4 fundamentally still a settler "race" game in the beginning like before? If so then they have not fundamentally solved it at all!

No, I don't think it works anymore. I tried a little bit, but your cities do not grow in population while you are building settlers, so it is self defeating to keep doing it. Once, I got a settler from a goodie hut after building my first two cities and when I built the third city, the maintenance costs hurt. I had to hold off for a while before I built my fourth city.

 

[Heliotic]

People say ICS is gone because they want to believe it is. The truth is it's still the best way to go. Once you have two cities you can pump settlers out of one and units out of the other and get ten cities for every three the AI gets. It's that way on Noble anyway. I haven't played a higher dificulty yet. It's an even more essential stragety now with the emphesis on resources. Grab them all and choke the life out of your rivals.

It's gone.

Sure you can win by using ICS. But you can just as easily win by not using ICS.

 

[Marquis Mark]

Depends...SP or MP?

I can say it'll get you killed fast in MP if the enemy is wise to ICS.

 

[Little Raven]

I'm still exploring this game. But from what I've seen so far, it's gone.

You can still do it, if you want. But it's no longer the heart of the game.

 

[KabeDerlin]

It is clear that the new features and game engine very much attempts to defeat the ICS strategy as being the optimum and viable one in favor of more balanced and realistic expansion. So is ICS finally defeated once and for all???

Yes! And good riddance!

 

[niffweed17]

well, personally, i think that anyone that says that ICS is still a viable strategy is playing on too low a difficulty level. ICS simply doesn't offer the opportunity to develop the necessary defenses or tech; you're too crippled from the expansion effort.

 

[AsnoT]

why do developers think they have to take away a way of playing the game?
what is their PROBLEM?

if i choose to do something that they consider bad/stupid/unwanted it is MY decision to do so.

good thing they didn't manage, ICS is still very possible, otherwise i'd stop playing NOW.

 

[TheEvilCheater]

Eh im trying it in my current game. And well i expanded so fast i have to keep my research at 40. So while im ahead in score im a good 7 techs abck and fallingg. If you expand with out the infrasctructure to support it your screwing yourself.

 

[Shizelbs]

I've played one game so far where I expanded too fast and paid dearly for it. My ass got kicked real quick.

You can still do it, but I'm never going to again.

I've also noticed the computer players don't seem to do it as much as they did in 3 on the higher difficulties. So at least its fair.

 

[Quasimodo]

So, on a SP, Noble level, Terra map game, how many cities would be an average civ be?

I've just started playing and havn't made it very far into the game yet.

 

[Iceman_IX]

You can't expand too fast. Like an above poster said, you'll have to cut back your research rate to ~50% because city maintenance is where the big expenses are. You can still steadily expand and on Noble difficulty my current game I expanded steadily to about 10 cities and took important resources and am dominating on all fronts but I was behind on techs through the mid-game and was weak on city defense. But in the late-game I'm winning a two front war because of my ability to outproduce my enemies.

But a creative Spiritual leader can adapt and expand with certain Civics making use of certain wonders to keep growing etc. while preparing for the late game.

Not sure if you're "ICS" still exists but there are many ways to win this game. Play the game you want and enjoy it. In MP, unrestrained expansion will never work.