Is it OK to block unroaded resource?

[King Of America]

I have a ROP with tribe X. In their territory is a useful resource that is not roaded. Can I move a military unit (that is, a non-scout) to the resource tile so they can't road it?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

From the GOTM Website's Exploits List:

DISALLOWED

Scout resource denial
Place a scout on a square where there is a resource and in (future) enemy territory. As long as you have peace with them you can leave him there undisturbed and the other will never be able to build a road to it.

 

[King Of America]

@Ginger Ale

I am familair with the rule you posted. That's why I noted the tile was in another AI's territory and I was not thinking of using a scout.

Reading the rule strictly, the logical conclusion is that what I suggest is OK because of the differences between my situation and the forbideden one -- in other words the very specific wording of the prohibition implies that other actions would be OK.

However, I want to be sure that a strict reading was intended by the staff, rather than a more general prohibition on sitting on unconnected resources.

 

[AlanH]

I wasn't around at the time that the rule was created, but I'm guessing that the spirit of the rule is that you should not use your units to prevent a friendly civ from connecting a resource. If I am correct then your version would be equally exploitative.

A scout is probably identified in the rule because you can get away with putting a non-combat unit in friendly territory indefinitely without a RoP - an explorer, worker or settler would also work. I can't conceive of any rule set logic that would prohibit resource denial using a scout but allow it using some other unit.

 

[civ_steve]

Except that the ROP will eventually expire forcing the issue, while the scout can stay there indefinitely. I don't believe the primary issue is resource denial, but using a crack in the code logic to deny the resource; with Scouts that can be done from the get-go.

Another case is Army pillaging in C3C since the AI will generally not attack a full strength army, but at least you're at war.

 

[DaveMcW]

ROPs never expire if you have "always renegotiate" off and the AI likes the deal.

 

[Offa]

Well I am not staff, but have always thought that resource denial is not allowed with any sort of unit. As AlanH says, surely it is almost the same exploit to use a warrior or whatever, even if the exploit works better with scouts.

 

[AlanH]

Except that the ROP will eventually expire forcing the issue, while the scout can stay there indefinitely. I don't believe the primary issue is resource denial, but using a crack in the code logic to deny the resource; with Scouts that can be done from the get-go.

The primary issue *is* resource denial while at peace, as there would be no point in the rule otherwise. I can only assume that the rule was originally created in a hurry when someone did it with a scout. Otherwise it should also have cited workers and explorers.

If we accept that you shouldn't use units to deny resources while at peace then it seems to me to be a small extension to say you shouldn't do it under RoP either. If the AI took into account the fact that you are sitting on their resources when assessing the value of a RoP renewal then maybe your point about RoP expiry would be valid. But I don't think they are that clever. The value of a RoP is purely based on relative territory plus rep as far as I know.

However, I freely admit that I'm only trying to argue a fail-safe position until Ainwood or someone else wiser than I am can pronounce on the real history.

 

[ainwood]

I think there was an attempt to fix this in a patch - originally, the AI would ignore non-military units in their territory, so you could park a scout (or worker or settler) in their territory indefinitely. Following a patch, I believe that they would ask you to move it, but never demand that you move it. There is a formula posted somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment (is has to do with proximity to cities, and ADM values).

Anyway - my view is this is an exploit, and shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Renata]

Thirded. It's not as bad as the scout version -- there are some small risks associated with maintaining an ROP -- but at heart it's the same thing.

Renata

 

[King Of America]

OK. Guess I'll have to take care of this another way ... as in capture the tile later .