Is it possible to have an empire with no religion?

[Gothic_Empire]

Closed borders and mercantilism should keep religions out of your cities.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Closed borders and mercantilism will keep religions out of your cities.

It won't. At all. It will still auto spread, just won't come via missionaries.

One could surround a city with peaks and make sure that city gets all 7 holy shrines. That would completely eliminated religion from the world most likely.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

It won't. At all. It will still auto spread, just won't come via missionaries.

One could surround a city with peaks and make sure that city gets all 7 holy shrines. That would completely eliminated religion from the world most likely.

Really? Seems like it would. o.O

 

[r_rolo1]

It won't. At all. It will still auto spread, just won't come via missionaries.

One could surround a city with peaks and make sure that city gets all 7 holy shrines. That would completely eliminated religion from the world most likely.

Airports

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

Well, seems were already going to extremes to make this work...when the first civ starts to get near flight...starve the city and abandom it. Declare war on everyone and hope someone comes and razes it. They have to raze if it's only pop 1 right?

 

[Tephros]

All it takes is being isolated, adopting theocracy without researching theology first, and being lucky enough not to get religion spread via random events.

It's not that extreme, but you'll probably need to play a difficulty level or two lower than usual.

 

[r_rolo1]

All it takes is being isolated, adopting theocracy without researching theology first, and being lucky enough not to get religion spread via random events.

It's not that extreme, but you'll probably need to play a difficulty level or two lower than usual.

Quoting myself.....

No. Atheist Theocracy does not prevent religion autospread since Warlords.This was made to prevent that theo lover AI ( Izzy, Ramesses,.... ) that by acident didn't founded a religion would never get one.

Religion autospread is only possible if there is a possible trade route from a holy city to the target city ( that is not the same than a actual trade route: closed borders will not prevent autospread... and it does not work both ways: religion will not spread if there is only a possible trade route from the target city to the holy city ). See the VoiceOfUnreason article on religions for more details

So, on topic...

There is only one way to have a full-proof atheistic empire:
-Go to WB in beginning of the game and give yourself Theocracy and a religion. Get back to WB and clean the religion of every city on Earth. That will enable to have a religion Theocracy, but without the religion.

P.S With events off as well, as Tatran said

RELIGIONLESS THEOCRACY DOES NOT PREVENT RELIGIOUS AUTO-SPREAD

 

[Tephros]

Quoting myself.....

RELIGIONLESS THEOCRACY DOES NOT PREVENT RELIGIOUS AUTO-SPREAD

It may still require some luck, but just raze the holy cities as soon as astronomy is available. This happens to also be the earliest they can spread to you when you're isolated. Auto-spread doesn't happen that often. Only a few intercontinental autospreads per game for me. If you have two large forces you should be able to take out all of the holy cities in short order.

When I did it back in warlords I prioritized razing holy cities.

Edit: The article you quoted contradicts what you say:

Theocracy

Complicating things further, the Theocracy civic is documented to "prevent the spread of non-state religions. Once again, this doesn't quite mean what it says.

For spontaneous spreading, this is precisely right; your state religion is allowed to flow to one of your unconverted cities (if it is connected to the holy city), but no other religions may do so.

For missionary spreading, you prevent your opponents from spreading non-state religions to you, but you don't prevent your teammates from doing so. You can always spread the religion yourself with your own missionaries, and your opponents can use their missionaries to spread your own state religion to you.

To be continued

 

[r_rolo1]

No, it doesn't. VoU does not refer to the special case of Religionless Theocracy. He speaks specifically of the case you have a state religion, if you read it right.

 

[r_rolo1]

The revelant code is on CvCity:doReligion

void CvCity::doReligion()
{
	CvCity* pLoopCity;
	int iRandThreshold;
	int iSpread;
	int iLoop;
	int iI, iJ;

	CyCity* pyCity = new CyCity(this);
	CyArgsList argsList;
	argsList.add(gDLL->getPythonIFace()->makePythonObject(pyCity));	// pass in city class
	long lResult=0;
	gDLL->getPythonIFace()->callFunction(PYGameModule, "doReligion", argsList.makeFunctionArgs(), &lResult);
	delete pyCity;	// python fxn must not hold on to this pointer 
	if (lResult == 1)
	{
		return;
	}

	if (getReligionCount() == 0)
	{
		for (iI = 0; iI < GC.getNumReligionInfos(); iI++)
		{
			if (!isHasReligion((ReligionTypes)iI))
			{
				if ((iI == GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getStateReligion()) || !(GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).isNoNonStateReligionSpread()))
				{
					iRandThreshold = 0;

					for (iJ = 0; iJ < MAX_PLAYERS; iJ++)
					{
						if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).isAlive())
						{
							for (pLoopCity = GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).firstCity(&iLoop); pLoopCity != NULL; pLoopCity = GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).nextCity(&iLoop))
							{
								if (pLoopCity->isConnectedTo(this))
								{
									iSpread = pLoopCity->getReligionInfluence((ReligionTypes)iI);

									iSpread *= GC.getReligionInfo((ReligionTypes)iI).getSpreadFactor();

									if (iSpread > 0)
									{
										iSpread /= std::max(1, (((GC.getDefineINT("RELIGION_SPREAD_DISTANCE_DIVISOR") * plotDistance(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), pLoopCity->getX_INLINE(), pLoopCity->getY_INLINE())) / GC.getMapINLINE().maxPlotDistance()) - 5));

										//iSpread /= (getReligionCount() + 1);

										iRandThreshold = std::max(iRandThreshold, iSpread);
									}
								}
							}
						}
					}

					if (GC.getGameINLINE().getSorenRandNum(GC.getDefineINT("RELIGION_SPREAD_RAND"), "Religion Spread") < iRandThreshold)
					{
						setHasReligion(((ReligionTypes)iI), true, true, true);
						break;
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

 

[Tephros]

The revelant code is on CvCity:doReligion

void CvCity::doReligion()
{
	CvCity* pLoopCity;
	int iRandThreshold;
	int iSpread;
	int iLoop;
	int iI, iJ;

	CyCity* pyCity = new CyCity(this);
	CyArgsList argsList;
	argsList.add(gDLL->getPythonIFace()->makePythonObject(pyCity));	// pass in city class
	long lResult=0;
	gDLL->getPythonIFace()->callFunction(PYGameModule, "doReligion", argsList.makeFunctionArgs(), &lResult);
	delete pyCity;	// python fxn must not hold on to this pointer 
	if (lResult == 1)
	{
		return;
	}

	if (getReligionCount() == 0)
	{
		for (iI = 0; iI < GC.getNumReligionInfos(); iI++)
		{
			if (!isHasReligion((ReligionTypes)iI))
			{
				if ((iI == GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getStateReligion()) || !(GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).isNoNonStateReligionSpread()))
				{
					iRandThreshold = 0;

					for (iJ = 0; iJ < MAX_PLAYERS; iJ++)
					{
						if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).isAlive())
						{
							for (pLoopCity = GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).firstCity(&iLoop); pLoopCity != NULL; pLoopCity = GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).nextCity(&iLoop))
							{
								if (pLoopCity->isConnectedTo(this))
								{
									iSpread = pLoopCity->getReligionInfluence((ReligionTypes)iI);

									iSpread *= GC.getReligionInfo((ReligionTypes)iI).getSpreadFactor();

									if (iSpread > 0)
									{
										iSpread /= std::max(1, (((GC.getDefineINT("RELIGION_SPREAD_DISTANCE_DIVISOR") * plotDistance(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), pLoopCity->getX_INLINE(), pLoopCity->getY_INLINE())) / GC.getMapINLINE().maxPlotDistance()) - 5));

										//iSpread /= (getReligionCount() + 1);

										iRandThreshold = std::max(iRandThreshold, iSpread);
									}
								}
							}
						}
					}

					if (GC.getGameINLINE().getSorenRandNum(GC.getDefineINT("RELIGION_SPREAD_RAND"), "Religion Spread") < iRandThreshold)
					{
						setHasReligion(((ReligionTypes)iI), true, true, true);
						break;
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

Okay, so what you say applies only when there is not already a religion present in the city? So if you have a state religion, have theocracy, but one of your cities does not have your state religion, that city can still get religion by random spread? And that code - I don't see any explicit variable that proves what you say and no comments that explain unclear variables. Which part of it specifically proves what you say? I took a C basic class a few years ago, but not C++...

 

[Spitefire]

he is indeed wrong unless he is running something other then v317 then i would not know.
I used the world bulder to test by squashing 8 other civs right next to me giveing all but one a holy city and giveing myself theocracy and 271 turns later still no religion spread to my little Atheistic theocracy, i also made sure that all of them had roads to me, couple of times i thought i might get culture crushed but somehow i didnt.