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Is morality dependent on religion?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Left, Jun 6, 2006.

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Do you need religion to have a moral code?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    9.9%
  2. No

    147 vote(s)
    86.0%
  3. Required Radioactive Monkey option

    7 vote(s)
    4.1%
  1. Hotpoint

    Hotpoint Rome Treaty Legions

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    Not quite. The basis of reciprocity can be seen in the rather older Sumerian texts, one basic example being their proverb "If you take the field of an enemy, the enemy will come and take your field".

    Since Abraham was supposedly originally from the Sumerian City of Ur you can see how the later Hebrews might have kept/developed the idea. There are certainly plenty of similiarities between the Genesis stories and the earlier Sumerian texts so some sort of cultural linkage is likely.
     
  2. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Or it could be that the principle of positive and negative reciprocity is such an essential part of human nature that the Sumerians, Moses, Confucius, and countless others came up with their own ways of codifying it.
     
  3. Masquerouge

    Masquerouge Chieftain

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    I would rather agree with that. But it's much more fun to argue about legendary figures saying it first in mythical times :)
     
  4. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Come now, Confucius isn't legendary is he? ;)

    Really, it is interesting to note how many cultures will come up with different ways of stating the same moral principles. CS Lewis wrote a collection of quotes, called Illustrations of the Tao, as an appendix to his book The Abolition of Man, showing how different cultures were saying the same things. His point was to argue that God (not religion - there is an important difference there) was the underlying source of morality. I happen to agree with him, but even if one doesn't believe in God it shows how universal a lot of moral ideas are.
     
  5. Sidhe

    Sidhe Chieftain

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    Don't like people who disparage the fact that high order mammals lack morals so I finally got fed up and found something that maintains this opinion, sometimes I honeslty think people would rather disparrage an assertion than actually look into why such an assertion is made, thus:-

    http://hcs.harvard.edu/~husn/BRAIN/vol2/Primate.html

    No matter how much you want to deny it, social interactions even in non human species have lead to morals, thus we can say that behaviourally at least morals come before speech and thus religion.

    Animals of this group are far more sophisticated than we like to think, and all these machinations lead to moral altruism in a form that would indicate moral thinking, if what I do affects others then I need to change what I do to suit a situation, it's the seed of morality, we seem to be programmed early on to use the golden rule to form social groups.

    I suggest people read the whole thing it's very interesting, even the OT stuff.:)

    EDIT: I noticed this point which is confusing me. Another camp contends that brain size scales not to 2/3 but to 0.75 which is the allometric exponent for basal metabolic rate determined by Kleiber (1961 in Martin 1981).

    2/3=0.75 =75%=2/3 sounds like there arguing about whether 1 is equivalent to 1? Anyway, its a waste of a sentence unless theres some underlying maths they are trying to establish, sounds like the guy who wrote the paper was quoting from something but didn't elaborate, very strange?
     
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Nice find Sidhe, :hatsoff:
     
  7. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Ghost Agent

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    Well, I can say I am glad that I reviewed my opinion and chose to go with that moraliy is not dependent on religion.
     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Keep in mind CG that science can only explain little truths about what can be seen and counted. Sometimes those little truths can be assembled into what appears to be a larger picture. The larger the picture the greater the uncertainty. Believing the right science at the right time is irrelevant if you are not a nice person. If you are a nice person, believe what you will. :)

    "Snow is the only one of us that leaves no tracks." -- Kenneth Patchen
     
  9. viscountjones

    viscountjones Chieftain

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    Quoted from WILLJ
    "No, morality is not dependent on religion.
    Sure, perhaps all my morals (not killing, stealing, etc.) were founded by religious people (I'm not sure about that, but I'll accept it for this discussion). ...All that means is that I borrowed my morality from religion. It doesn't mean I'm religious!"

    Well the point was we are saying that morality is dependent on religion. We're not saying that you are religious at all. For with out religion or a sense of faith where would you have borrowed those morals? Furthermore, where would you have borrowed those moral that you have from.

    I personally believe that morals cannot be set by one person. No one has the right to judge what is right and wrong or good or bad, mainly for the reason that we did not create the concept of right and wrong. We may have our own opinion but then again morality is not relative between people but may be relative between "peoples".
     
  10. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Necromancy!
     
  11. GoodEnoughForMe

    GoodEnoughForMe n.m.s.s.

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  12. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Chieftain

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    I'm going to respond anyway.

    No.
     
  13. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    Definitely not.

    Now if we're talking about the right moral code....;)
     

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