Is overpopulation cause for concern?

So what's up?

  • There's no such thing as "too many people". We gotta make more babies.

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • There is such a thing as "too many people", but we won't reach that number because it's so high.

    Votes: 12 4.2%

  • There is such a thing as "too many people", but we won't reach it because of technology.

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • It's a concern, but it's far off and not really worth worrying about yet.

    Votes: 18 6.3%

  • We should start thinking about the problem, but there's no need to panic.

    Votes: 50 17.4%

  • We need to start now with methods like birth control and sustainable development.

    Votes: 126 43.8%

  • We need to start now with methods like forcibly sterilizing andor killing people.

    Votes: 6 2.1%

  • There's only enough room for me. I'm going to be killing the rest of you now, if you don't mind.

    Votes: 18 6.3%

  • Let me explain why none of your poll options are good enough for me.

    Votes: 14 4.9%
  • Total voters
    288
I'm not sure. See the quoted references, previous page.

I'm sure ISIS has a detailed article somewhere (I read extensively about it, largely from them, ~2002).

I've even taken a 'pre-med' grad class on genetic modification of crops with lab as a PhD elective (we went through the complete process of doing such, by various methods), and I can't explain it atm.
 
Formaldehyde said:
O RLY? Or is it apparently self-correcting as developing countries actually develop?
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Ya Rly. US is pretty developed I'd say & in 2007 people had more babies than ever before in US history.

800px-US_Population_Graph_-_1790_to_2000.svg.png


Waiting 'till the entire world is as rich as the US is dumb because...

  1. Even the US isn't as rich as we were, how do we expect developing nations to catch up while even we can't tread water
  2. The demographic transition has depended on a ever growing global economy & exploitation of resources (destruction of nature). It's a BS argument because the "developed" world is far more overpopulated when you consider overall global footprint. The planet couldn't handle even 2 billion people living like North Americans.

Passively waiting for "self-correction" (dieoff) is the type of "meh, it'll sort itself out" thinking that got us into this mess in the first place & this kind of apathy is a key ingredient in the fall of all great empires.
 
Ecofarm said:
I'm not sure. See the quoted references, previous page.

I'm sure ISIS has a detailed article somewhere (I read extensively about it, largely from them, ~2002).
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The paper itself seems to read more like a hypothetical , and the only papers that cite the paper are written by the authors themselves. (outside of the rawfood pages linking to it, of course :lol:) Surely there would be more research if there was a serious casual link?

Narz said:
Even the US isn't as rich as we were, how do we expect developing nations to catch up while even we can't tread water
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The correlation is linked to absolute wealth, not relative wealth?
 
Surely there would be more research if there was a serious casual link?
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The powers that be would not want such a link found. Like I said, ISIS is pretty wacky. Look into it and take from it what you want.

Notice, my original post regarding this was "(See: SARS)", not "(Proof: SARS)". More than one organization is running with the theory.
 
Quite a few of the stats I see state that we could be sustainable with even a couple of billion more, if we were intelligent in our sustainability. And stopping at a few billion more requires a whole lot of things to go right, too.

But if we don't migrate to sustainability quickly enough OR we don't get our population growth under control quickly enough. *POP*, we're toast in the long-term.
 
Narz said:
Ya Rly. US is pretty developed I'd say & in 2007 people had more babies than ever before in US history.
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Ah, yes. The great Hispanic/Catholic/Immigration menace...

graph1.gif


Sorry, I don't buy into crackpot theories like that. I think it will level off as it has in all other countries. If India and China can manage to reign in their much larger populations, I think the US can as well once it actually becomes a problem.
 
I'd say you're replenishing the earth if you're adding topsoil and increasing biodiversity.
We're currently causing extinctions ~100x faster than 'natural', and it's expected that they'll increase to 1000x faster than 'natural' within 30 years, since at-risk species will be even more at-risk.
 
LucyDuke said:
Total, right? Not per capita?
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Yeah, total.

Formaldehyde said:
Ah, yes. The great Hispanic/Catholic/Immigration menace...
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When no real substance to your argument cry "Racism!!!". :lol: Your argument is tangential, irrelivant (the Earth doesn't give a damn the color of our skin or lanugage only our behavior) & actually racist itself (implying the demographic transition doesn't apply to these people because they're Hispanic and/or Catholic & therefore probably poor :rolleyes: ).

Formaldehyde said:
Sorry, I don't buy into crackpot theories like that.
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A population graph is a crackpot theory? The census are lying to us? :eek:

You're the one trying to convince us what is going to have based on your crackpot theory. I'm posting about today's reality. If your theory can't hold up to reality don't take it out on me (in other news Russia is poor as hell & their population is shrinking).

Formaldehyde said:
I think it will level off as it has in all other countries. If India and China can manage to reign in their much larger populations, I think the US can as well once it actually becomes a problem.
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It's already a problem. You just can't feel it yet because it's too subtle &/or you're too insulated.

Genocide, resource wars, malnutrition are already a problem. Perhaps not in your backyard but all over the world.

The idea that the demographic transition is, by itself, enough to save us from ourselves is a dangerous delusion.
 
El_Machinae said:
I'd say you're replenishing the earth if you're adding topsoil and increasing biodiversity.
We're currently causing extinctions ~100x faster than 'natural', and it's expected that they'll increase to 1000x faster than 'natural' within 30 years, since at-risk species will be even more at-risk.
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Nah, it's cool, the Demographic Transition will save the planet. When enough people get enough money all problems get automatically solved. :suicide:
 
It's not a concern, because wealthy societies tend to breed less. Therefore we should be worrying about world poverty, and if we deal with that any problems with population will fix themselves.
 
Narz said:
When no real substance to your argument cry "Racism!!!".
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I'm not 'crying' racism. I merely pointed out through the use of a graph that your personal fears are shared by people who are fearful of immigration and how it might affect the voter balance, and why that is so. And it is quite similar to the fears that Israelis have about Palestinian growth rates. I'm not suggesting you feel the same way. You are apparently worried about completely different problems. Is that true?

Narz said:
You're the one trying to convince us what is going to have based on your crackpot theory..
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I haven't even presented a theory, much less a crackpot one. Nice straw man.

Narz said:
It's already a problem. You just can't feel it yet because it's too subtle &/or you're too insulated.
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What problem is that? That a few more Hispanics will soon be able to vote? Because that's only one I can see at this time. It certainly seems to me that we have the room and the natural resources to accomodate far more people than we have now.

Narz said:
Genocide, resource wars, malnutrition are already a problem. Perhaps not in your backyard but all over the world.
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Well, duh. But what does that have to do with the recent immigrant growth in the US, which is the only reason why the US population is currently expanding at all based on the negative growth rate of peopl who have been here longer than 1970? See the graph I posted for details.

Narz said:
The idea that the demographic transition is, by itself, enough to save us from ourselves is a dangerous delusion.
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Only if you are completely ignoring all the facts from the TED video which I have already posted.

So far, you have only been able to show that US population is increasing. That is a fact I don't think anybody would be foolish enough to question. Anybody with an almanac or access to the internet can easily determine that. However, you haven't been able to show how that is actually any sort of serious problem at this time. Can you?
 
Kerozine said:
Spoiler :
worldnetbirthrate2007.png
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If that's supposed to contradict me, I don't see it.

The west has low birthrate, and sub Saharan Africa has the highest. If we were to find a solution to poverty in Africa, things would look a lot more peachy.
 
Souron said:
If that's supposed to contradict me, I don't see it.

The west has low birthrate, and sub Saharan Africa has the highest. If we were to find a solution to poverty in Africa, things would look a lot more peachy.
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It's uhh.. supposed to reinforce your point? :dunno:
 
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