Is religion rational?

[Xanikk999]

Which you used as an argument for you earlier statement that religion is outdated.

What i dont recall saying that. I said some aspects of religion and beliefs about how things work being explained by religion are outdated.

 

[puglover]

I disagree. Being around like-minded people does nothing to encourage our spiritual growth. Rather, encountering other belief systems, especially those that cause us to question and re-examine our own beliefs is how we grow spritually.

You need a balance of both to get anywhere. I have friends who share my beliefs, and I have friends who disagree with me. Both give me experiences I need to move forward. Organized religion gives people a comradery in their faith, which allows growth through fellowship.

That's not what I said at all. Go read it again.

I read it. You make the claim that rationality has nothing to do with spirituality. But rationality has to be a part of spirituality, otherwise it has no base.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

What i dont recall saying that. I said some aspects of religion and beliefs about how things work being explained by religion are outdated.

That's the exact same thing. The fact that you threw some extra hypotaxis in there doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what you said.

You need a balance of both to get anywhere. I have friends who share my beliefs, and I have friends who disagree with me. Both give me experiences I need to move forward. Organized religion gives people a comradery in their faith, which allows growth through fellowship.

Comradery is not prerequisite for spiritual growth. "Growth through fellowship" is a load of crap, all that means is that you don't feel bad for saying what you believe in public because you know that other people approve of it. That's basically peer pressure. You're doing it because other people are, which is the wrong idea for religion.

I read it. You make the claim that rationality has nothing to do with spirituality. But rationality has to be a part of spirituality, otherwise it has no base.

Rationality, or logic?

 

[Azash]

Religion is irrational; however, it is also a good defense mechanism if you can't cope with Big Questions or other cool stuff like that.

 

[Xanikk999]

That's the exact same thing. The fact that you threw some extra hypotaxis in there doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what you said.

So because a few creationists aren't all togther up top, that means that every spritual person is therefore a crazy science-denouncing nincompoop?

Is not the same as:

What i dont recall saying that. I said some aspects of religion and beliefs about how things work being explained by religion are outdated.

 

[puglover]

Comradery is not prerequisite for spiritual growth. "Growth through fellowship" is a load of crap, all that means is that you don't feel bad for saying what you believe in public because you know that other people approve of it. That's basically peer pressure. You're doing it because other people are, which is the wrong idea for religion.

Accountability is not the same as peer pressure. If a believer lacks a church body, his personal prejudices and closed doors will always be in the way of his spiritual growth.

Rationality, or logic?

Both. Religion has to be based on fact, or it is based merely on subjective feelings.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Is not the same as:

So the religion is outdated, but the people who believe in said religion aren't stupid? You can't have it both ways, Zanick.

Accountability is not the same as peer pressure.

Where does accountability come into this?

If a believer lacks a church body, his personal prejudices and closed doors will always be in the way of his spiritual growth.

I think a person gains a fuller relationship with God when they aren't bothered by silly things like a church or a congregation telling them what to do, what to believe and what not to believe, and that their beliefs are wrong. In short, indoctrination into a religion is bad. Individual spirituality with God is good, because your relationship with Him has nothing to do with other people.

Both. Religion has to be based on fact, or it is based merely on subjective feelings.

I didnt' say a religion shouldn't be based in fact. How did we get to facts? This started out as "science tells us how, religion tells us why."

 

[Guangxi]

irrational. ok, maybe for cavemen trying to explain thunder its allright, but not in this day and age.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Is religion rational? Of course not.

Does it ultimately need to be? No. Depending on how we define the word rational, no human being is truly rational, and that is okay by me.

Besides, quite frankly, my religion at least is helping me improve my (admittedly slim) chances of reproductive success, so from a self-interested perspe4ctive it works out.

 

[GenMarshall]

I personally do take offense to the term "irrational" since it implies stupidity and lack of intelligence on a person.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I don't feel the word "irrational" necessarily applies - I prefer "arational", but then again we shouldn't get bogged down in semantics.

 

[GenMarshall]

I don't feel the word "irrational" necessarily applies - I prefer "arational", but then again we shouldn't get bogged down in semantics.

However it bothers me when people say that I am irrational just because I am a religious person.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I personally do take offense to the term "irrational" since it implies stupidity and lack of intelligence on a person.

You take offense to a lot of things about religion. This is most often because you're insecure about whatever it is you're taking offense to.

Are you insecure about your beliefs?

 

[GenMarshall]

You take offense to a lot of things about religion. This is most often because you're insecure about whatever it is you're taking offense to.

I have seen people call religious people who are intelligent called irrational just because they are religious or hold a religious faith. I have seen the word "irrational" used in context for stupidity and dumb.

Are you insecure about your beliefs?

I am quite secure about my beliefs, thank you very much.

 

[Azash]

CG, what matters is how you use the word, not how it is conceived. Irrational, in this context, is used to denote that religion may not be based on facts - after all, if it were, it wouldn't be a faith. Calling a religion rational, then, would mean you believe that religion stems from a source whose existence is undeniable.

(At this point, I ask myself if a religion's rationality depends on its irrationality, and really, there is no way to prove a religion. This is the main reason I find agnosticism to be the most rational, as it accepts uncertainty.)

 

[scipian]

A lot of it is, but also a lot is just pure spiritual stuff which by definition isn't rational.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I have seen people call religious people who are intelligent called irrational just because they are religious or hold a religious faith. I have seen the word "irrational" used in context for stupidity and dumb.

So, because someone doesn't understand the correct defintion of a word, that makes the target of that word whatever they decided that word means?

I am quite secure about my beliefs, thank you very much.

Well you take offense to a lot of things, which is a sign of insecurity. I don't know why you let other people's critcism control or affect your beliefs.

 

[GenMarshall]

So, because someone doesn't understand the correct defintion of a word, that makes the target of that word whatever they decided that word means?

I have seen "irrational" tossed around such as "You're irrational" or use it as a brand of insult of the individual's intelligences.

Well you take offense to a lot of things, which is a sign of insecurity. I don't know why you let other people's critcism control or affect your beliefs.

Sorry, but I'm not insecure of my beliefs. I care less if people say that my beliefs are irrational or not. However I care when the term irrational to describe a person.

 

[Xanikk999]

So the religion is outdated, but the people who believe in said religion aren't stupid? You can't have it both ways, Zanick.

Stop being so thick, i didnt say religion was outdated, but rather certain aspects and tradions around many religions were.

And i never mentioned they were stupid. You can be irrational and not stupid.

 

[GenMarshall]

Stop being so thick, i didnt say religion was outdated, but rather certain aspects and tradions around many religions were.

So the tradition that Christ died for my sins as well as his teachings are out dated. Please, cry me a river.