Is Reloading a Save Cheating?

[YourHarry]

I'd not have "reloaded 10 times for a decent start". In my opinion, if you find yourself doing this often, it means you need a lower difficulty level.

Here you assume that people reload because it's required for the win. It may or may not be.

Yes, to me, losing to a mistake, regardless of time investiture, is a priority to "winning" and certainly a priority to "winning within parameters such as a turn limit".

Why do you think people play games? Do you think it's always to optimize the strategies required to win in Civ5? If so, every couple of turns, we should perform hours of math to try to determine the best action. It feels to me that you seem to approach this game with such an attitude.

But for others, I would argue that, this is simply a game. It's to have fun. Most don't associate "honor" with single player games. You are not in a relationship.

Yes in school people are taught not to cheat. And we learn the same in books and movies. But this is not the time to apply that. Even if reloading is cheating, you are not harming anyone. You are using a game feature to acquire utilities. Let us allow an open mind.

 

[Adjuvant]

Why do you think people play games?

This isn't the topic. Further it's an inconsequential query to a statement under the disclaimer "to me".

If you'd like to discuss, "Why do people play games", we can. For now, though, for this, the answer I will give is chiefly dependent on my perspective of the question.

Thanks for being a paragon of understanding.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I think if you re-load because you made a mistake on a move (such as mistakenly click on research a tech rather than build an academy), or mistakenly moved a unit to the wrong space, then it is not cheating - provided you don't give end your turn.

Once you end your turn - too late. If you see the effect of a move, and THEN realize you could have done something differently, it is cheating (time machine anyone?).

 

[brianshapiro]

Wait, so after reloading 10 times to get at least a decent start and pouring 5-7 hours into a game it's more fun to just stop playing just because I made an easily fixable mistake?

Reloading 10 times to get a decent start doesn't sound fun. And pouring hours into something makes it sound like work, not fun.

That's my point, that a lot of people squeeze the fun out of their game by becoming obsessed with bad conditions instead of just trying to deal with them. The game then becomes a chore. Re-starting a game 10 times truly is boring. You could continue playing, roll with your mistakes, and still try to win the game, instead of reloading. I didn't say starting a new game was the best option.

But its all subjective, in the sense that its up to you to judge whether you're routinely abusing the game or you just don't feel like dealing with a mistake at that moment. If you reload, it doesn't make you Hitler. Its just that a lot of people get addicted to it.

(Yes, and I'm not including things like mistaken mouse clicks or other mechanical errors. I'm talking about correcting strategy mistakes.)

 

[Gori the Grey]

OP, if you reload like that, the game can never beat you. You'll be undefeatable. Would you want that?

 

[RedLens]

If I'm to the point of wanting to reload a save, unless it's because of a glitch or something, I'll just retire. It means the game has gone to s**t and I'll have more fun starting a new game than trying to salvage something I've completely bungled.

 

[Barghaest]

I believe it's a learning tool as well. If you reload a save and keep trying to win a certain battle by using different tactics, then you are seeing what works and what doesn't. I used to reload like crazy when I first started playing because I didn't like losing a unit (much less a city). Don't do it as much now since I've gotten better at tactics - and exploiting the AIs lack thereof - and don't get quite so attached to my units but occasionally I'll do it when I'm frustrated (current game I stopped playing for a few weeks and dove right back in making a very stupid move which cost me dearly - 10+ turns down the road so couldn't reload from before I made it - so I did quite a bit of time travel to get myself out of the fix I was in) or when I just want to see how something would play out but don't want to permanently alter my current game by living with the decision if it was bad.

 

[Furret]

To everyone I have so obviously personally offended by rerolling my starts, I apologize wholeheartedly.

While you can 'cheat' in a single-player game, the only person being cheated is yourself. If I mod a warrior to have 100000 strength and to take no damage from anything, is it cheating? It definitely is. Who is affected by this cheating? I have a hilariously good time rolling GDRs with my warrior, and electricity flows through my computer differently than it would've without the mod.

Cheating is only bad if the people who are being cheated aren't okay with it. In single-player, that decision is entirely up to you. In multi-player, or when submitting a game for a record/hall of fame/etc., it's pretty obviously wrong.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Barg:

I agree that it can be a learning tool - I've done that to intentionally play out alternate scenarios.

 

[Koiranputki]

Cheating is only bad if the people who are being cheated aren't okay with it. In single-player, that decision is entirely up to you. In multi-player, or when submitting a game for a record/hall of fame/etc., it's pretty obviously wrong.

Yeah...I never quite understand why this point keeps getting debated....

If you are trying to mislead someone, it's cheating. If only you are being affected, then the most you can say is you might be misleading yourself about how good you are as a player....

[Aside: I suppose there is also the matter of "Achievements", which show up on your Steam account....but, personally, I don't take that too seriously and I would certainly never purport it to be any kind of representation of my "Civ skillsets".... ]

When I play as Spain I re-roll constantly.... It's not about "beating the game"...I can do that on Emperor as Spain without wonders, but if I'm going to do that, I would rather play as some other civ.....Spain without wonders is rather bland....

 

[Barghaest]

If you are trying to mislead someone, it's cheating. If only you are being affected, then the most you can say is you might be misleading yourself about how good you are as a player....

[Aside: I suppose there is also the matter of "Achievements", which show up on your Steam account....but, personally, I don't take that too seriously and I would certainly never purport it to be any kind of representation of my "Civ skillsets".... ]

When I play as Spain I re-roll constantly.... It's not about "beating the game"...I can do that on Emperor as Spain without wonders, but if I'm going to do that, I would rather play as some other civ.....Spain without wonders is rather bland....

Heh, I mislead myself about how good I am quite frequently playing solo; however, I'm well aware I'd get my butt handed to me in a multiplayer match

As for achievements, since they don't really give you anything except bragging rights (e-peen strokage) it's kind moot there as well.

Also, don't consider re-rolling a game for a better start quite the same as reloading a few turns back to alter the outcome of a game.

 

[Beaver79]

So when is it cheating and when isn't it cheating?

If I were playing Dragon Age and saved right before a boss fight, I die, and then reload, is that cheating?

You guys are funny. Gamers have always saved and reloaded. Cheating is using God mode.

 

[Barghaest]

So when is it cheating and when isn't it cheating?

If I were playing Dragon Age and saved right before a boss fight, I die, and then reload, is that cheating?

You guys are funny. Gamers have always saved and reloaded. Cheating is using God mode.

Actually, neither is technically cheating (since most games include a code for God Mode - actual cheating would be using a 3PP like a Trainer) but both cheapen the victory. There's more sense of pride if you do something successfully the first time without advantages like God Mode or such; however, there's more learned - and often more of a sense of accomplishment - in succeeding after several failed attempts.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

If it ain't cheatin, then it ain't winnin'.

There is nothing wrong with re-playing a scenario, and in taking different actions to see what happens. But once you re-set the situation, and play out the alternative, then you are admitting that you lost.

 

[headcase]

Oh, it's cheating, but sometimes it's more enjoyable that way.

And it's on a sliding scale. At the bottom of the guilt-scale, the game crashed. Then you have mis-clicks, then there's times when trade route get plundered when you had a nearby military unit (you put in the investment but didn't micro-manage to the ridiculously exact degree Firaxis apparently requires of you), a little further up the scale (but not much), you spend a GE and lose a wonder race, then higher up in the scale you have "oh yeah should've planned for that civ going to war with me, oops" kind of stuff. Even then, if you'd have fun doing the last few turns again and going on, it makes no real difference, just don't chalk it as a solid victory.

But as a rule of thumb, to thine own self be true