Is that my trainer problem?

Status
Not open for further replies.
AI is different at different level, read the note by the developer! If the level is only different because of different resource bonus, pretty sure no one would consider this is a great game and it wouldn't be hot at all. :lol:NOOB

My 6,663 posts to your 11. Who's the noob here? No the AI is not different at different levels. Learn how the game works first before you come and start insulting the regulars.
 
Your points just mean you didn't RTFM:lol:

If you've been playing the game as long as I have, and reading up about it on this forum, the manual is irrelevant. I may not be a top-tier player but I certainly know how the game works. Quite clearly you don't.
 
If you've been playing the game as long as I have, and reading up about it on this forum, the manual is irrelevant. I may not be a top-tier player but I certainly know how the game works. Quite clearly you don't.

Let me show to you guys why you need to RTFM before you really understand what is going on even after you have played for years:

read this:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/27/059220

So this is from the Civ IV team!
"Noble and Prince are the difficulty levels where the AI's rules are closest to the human's."

So there are different "AI's rules" for different difficulty levels, which make the computer players make different decision base on the difficulty level. The CIV maker really makes the difficulty level different base on those "AI's rules", and also with resources different.

It is very easy to tell. The computer player basically is stupid in very simple level, but they are "smarter" and more aggressive in general and would do like technology trading that kind of smarter thing in more difficult level.

A very simple testing, even you are so weak, the computer players wouldn't try to kill you in lower level, but in higher level, they would just try to kill you as a group, those are different of AI ok? They even trade their technology, they are really having some "smart" move just to beat you!

and here:

"My only question for Civ4 concerns the AI: Have you made it a crafty enough opponent yet that it can compete at the higher skill levels of the game without resorting to the "cheating" that we've seen in previous incarnations of the game? If so, how?"

Basically the game is used to be too crazy that it doesn't suppose to be won by a normal human, even slashdot asked about this, ok?

If you are not a noob, you would read slashdot.
 
Umm, the article you linked says basically what everyone here is saying. The AI is the same at all levels, however the bonuses it receives vary by difficulty. The "cheating" that was removed amounts to advance knowledge of the map, player unit deployments, etc.

"Much of the information cheating has been removed from the game (such as knowing where a resource is before it is discovered, sending off galleys with settlers to undiscovered lands, targeting cities with fewer defenders, etc.) Further, the heuristics it uses to make decisions, such as for diplomatic demands and declarations of war, are the same ones available to the player (such as from the power chart on the Demographics screen). However, as with all versions of Civ, the AI has production and research penalties at the lower levels and bonuses at the higher levels. The level of the bonuses are lower than they have ever been before; in fact, the AI never receives any bonuses whatsoever for building wonders - a far cry from the "free AI wonders" in Civ 1. Noble and Prince are the difficulty levels where the AI's rules are closest to the human's."

There are variations in behavior based on the specific leader, and the actual behavior of the AI is more noticeable at higher levels because it can accomplish more due to the bonuses, more starting units/settlers, etc. The AI is more aggressive at higher levels because it can build more units faster. The AI trades more techs at higher levels because it can research faster and has more techs to trade.

If you want to argue with people who have very detailed understanding of how the game works, while covering your ears and screaming "you're wrong" over and over, feel free I guess. Won't make you any more right.

You get bonus points for trying to prop up Slashdot as an authoritative source for Civ4 info, though. :rolleyes:
 
Umm, the article you linked says basically what everyone here is saying. The AI is the same at all levels, however the bonuses it receives vary by difficulty. The "cheating" that was removed amounts to advance knowledge of the map, player unit deployments, etc.

"Much of the information cheating has been removed from the game (such as knowing where a resource is before it is discovered, sending off galleys with settlers to undiscovered lands, targeting cities with fewer defenders, etc.) Further, the heuristics it uses to make decisions, such as for diplomatic demands and declarations of war, are the same ones available to the player (such as from the power chart on the Demographics screen). However, as with all versions of Civ, the AI has production and research penalties at the lower levels and bonuses at the higher levels. The level of the bonuses are lower than they have ever been before; in fact, the AI never receives any bonuses whatsoever for building wonders - a far cry from the "free AI wonders" in Civ 1. Noble and Prince are the difficulty levels where the AI's rules are closest to the human's."

There are variations in behavior based on the specific leader, and the actual behavior of the AI is more noticeable at higher levels because it can accomplish more due to the bonuses, more starting units/settlers, etc. The AI is more aggressive at higher levels because it can build more units faster. The AI trades more techs at higher levels because it can research faster and has more techs to trade.

If you want to argue with people who have very detailed understanding of how the game works, while covering your ears and screaming "you're wrong" over and over, feel free I guess. Won't make you any more right.

You get bonus points for trying to prop up Slashdot as an authoritative source for Civ4 info, though. :rolleyes:

no no no, just read the sentence again:
"Noble and Prince are the difficulty levels where the AI's rules are closest to the human's."

AI's rules are not bonus or extra resources. Just think as a programmer, it is not hard at all to set different rules for the AI and set it on/off for different difficulty levels. There is no way a million game using the same AI for all difficulty, and it is clearly said in the statement. It is their secret to set how the different of AI in different level and they don't want to clearly say how is the different.

As I said before, even a very simple test can show you. You can try at the lowest level, even you do nothing, no one is going to attack you. If you try on hardest level, they attack you quickly as a group. That is decision by the AI of the computer players, even this kind of simple decision, still AI.

There is AI's rules, not just resource bonus.
 
no no no, just read the sentence again:
"Noble and Prince are the difficulty levels where the AI's rules are closest to the human's."

AI's rules are not bonus or extra resources. Just think as a programmer, it is not hard at all to set different rules for the AI and set it on/off for different difficulty levels. There is no way a million game using the same AI for all difficulty, and it is clearly said in the statement. It is their secret to set how the different of AI in different level and they don't want to clearly say how is the different.

As I said before, even a very simple test can show you. You can try at the lowest level, even you do nothing, no one is going to attack you. If you try on hardest level, they attack you quickly as a group. That is decision by the AI of the computer players, even this kind of simple decision, still AI.

There is AI's rules, not just resource bonus.

There is no "secret". The whole source code is open for anyone to see (heck, it's supplied with the game if you have BtS), and tons of players study it to either just learn how it works or to mod it. And as a very experienced modder (who knows the "manual" a thousand times better than you; incidentally this "manual" has changed quite a lot during the five years since your link was posted) already stated earlier, the AI is not "smarter" at all on high levels. Yeah, I know you're just trolling, though even in that in mind you're making a monumental fool of yourself here. :p

There are tons of reasons why the AI will attack you much less frequently on low levels. On the very lowest levels there's an artificial reduction in the attack rate, otherwise it's just stuff like relative army sizes and diplomacy that vary compared to higher levels because of the bonuses the AI gets and the penalties applied to the human. From about Noble on there is no artificial stuff like that, just raw bonuses and penalties.
 
Here you go. Everything you need to know about difficulty levels straight from the game files. Had to change the extension to .txt since the attachment manager wouldn't let me upload an .xml file.

You are partially correct about the AI aggressiveness at low levels. There is a modifier that decreases the AI's chance of declaring war for the first 3 difficulty levels (25% for Settler, 50% for Chieftan, 75% for Warlord.) It's the same for Noble+, however. And that's not a different AI, just a single modifier to the same AI. There is zero difference in the way the way the AI perceives the player between Prince and Deity, the bonuses available to the AI and penalties to the player are the only factors.

Edit: And Silu snuck in to say the exact same thing while I was messing around with uploading the file, hehe.
 

Attachments

AI's rules are not bonus or extra resources.
Yes, they are. Settler to Warlord are the only difficulties where the AI's personality actually changes - it is friendlier, easier to please, and less likely to declare war. However, from Prince to Deity, the AI's personality does not change. The only thing that changes is the AI's research and production bonuses (and other things like happiness and maintenance reduction). They are all modifiers (for example, on Deity, AI gets +100% research and production). They have nothing to do with how the AI behaves.
 
AI is different at different level, read the note by the developer! If the level is only different because of different resource bonus, pretty sure no one would consider this is a great game and it wouldn't be hot at all. :lol:NOOB

Those who have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to analyze and describe the code say different. I have been listening to them for years. (The developers have confirmed this analysis, repeatedly.) You do not know what you say you know.
 
JavaBenjamin said:
Dude do you know what is a trainer? It would change data in memory to affect how the game runs, it is not done by running "cheat code". If you a computer noob, just accept the fact!

AI is different at different level, read the note by the developer! If the level is only different because of different resource bonus, pretty sure no one would consider this is a great game and it wouldn't be hot at all. NOOB

OK, the difference between the difficulty levels is that the AI receives bonuses, not that it is any more intelligent. The Settler level AI is just as smart has the Deity AI, but it has huge penalties to research and production to weaken it. I don't think it's claimed otherwise in the manual, but the code definitely has no mechanism for varying the intelligence of the AI with difficulty level.

It is different. Base on my understanding, worldbuilding is used to create your own game. With trainer, I can beat the normal game that is designed by the game maker without any cheat code, I beat the AI without changing the game, so really beat the game, you get it?

No, since the game maker didn't include your "trainer" code you're not playing the original game. Given that it is clearly intended to make the game easier, it is cheating whether you call it that or not. It would have to give you a major advantage to go straight in at Deity level. I never really see the point of cheating in a single player game.
 
Out of curiosity, what is this trainer you speak of? Or is it a crack of the game and hence against forum rules?

JavaBenjamin,
If I were you'd I'd step back for a second and note that some of the people offering their advice or opinion to you know the game and its players much much more thoroughly than you do (no offense). Some of them know the code probably just as much, if not better, than the developers do so it really is a weak argument to argue from assertions that developers made many years ago.

Also, I assure you there are people who can beat Deity. However I don't know if anyone can do it consistently which I think is what many people imply when they say they can beat a difficulty.
 
Amazing! He has half a dozen experienced players, some of who are also modders, telling him he's wrong and he still refuses to believe it. :rolleyes:
 
The AI doesn't get smarter at different levels (just various bonuses to production, maintenance, etc.), there are people who can beat deity (I personally am only up to Monarch, but i'm working my way up the ladder), and the trainer you use doesn't let you beat the game without changing it. Obviously having unlimited moves is a little outside the standard rules.

The game was probably designed around Noble/Prince at Normal speed, seeing as how the AI does best at normal speed and Noble/Prince have the least penalties/bonuses at that difficulty.
 
There is no "secret". The whole source code is open for anyone to see (heck, it's supplied with the game if you have BtS), and tons of players study it to either just learn how it works or to mod it. And as a very experienced modder (who knows the "manual" a thousand times better than you; incidentally this "manual" has changed quite a lot during the five years since your link was posted) already stated earlier, the AI is not "smarter" at all on high levels. Yeah, I know you're just trolling, though even in that in mind you're making a monumental fool of yourself here. :p

There are tons of reasons why the AI will attack you much less frequently on low levels. On the very lowest levels there's an artificial reduction in the attack rate, otherwise it's just stuff like relative army sizes and diplomacy that vary compared to higher levels because of the bonuses the AI gets and the penalties applied to the human. From about Noble on there is no artificial stuff like that, just raw bonuses and penalties.

The whole source code is open for anyone to see? LOL LOL LOL
so you think civilization is a open source project? Only open source project opens the whole source code to everyone. LOL if it is totally open source, how can Firaxis Games
make money out of it? People can just customize the very top layer of the game but not the inner layer, which is the real core of the game, LOL so funny:lol:
 
I would be happy to know how the heck I modified the game for myself by changing the dll if I did not have access to the source code, which is in the BTS folder :)

Anyway, for everybody, this is quite obviously a troll, so I would suggest you do not bother answering any more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom