Is the Cultural VC the hardest to achieve?

[Tabarnak]

This thread is the most well rounded for a particular victory so far...and this is for (boring)cultural games

After some nice imput and strategies(i agree about the Oxford--->Archeology part very interesting), which civ do you think is the best for cultural victories?

 

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This thread is the most well rounded for a particular victory so far...and this is for (boring)cultural games

After some nice imput and strategies(i agree about the Oxford--->Archeology part very interesting), which civ do you think is the best for cultural victories?

It's probably because it's the only VC that requires a LOT of planning since a lot can go wrong and you have to balance very many things if you want a sub-300 finish.

My top 4 would be:

France - you don't need rails, since you don't won't be researching Steam Power. Even if you did tech it, it will help toward construction of Utopia. Assuming four cities, that's easily an extra 2000+ culture by the time you finish!

Songhai - not tried them out yet, but getting maintenance-free Temples that also provide culture will be nothing short of awesome. That and you can probably use the Legalism Trick as well (not sure how though).

Aztecs: Culture from War. That aspect is probably just incidental. Their power is getting taller, faster than anybody else. This allows you to field more specialists with larger cities.

Persia: happiness from Markets, an early UU to aid in defending yourself, and the icing: longer golden ages. Cultural Victories are the most Golden Age-heavy victories, IMO, and that can help you generate more culture in the end. That and it will help you get puppets. More puppets = more culture. That, and building Chichen Itza is no longer a priority.

EDIT: Siam is probably too advanced for me though. What to use gold on? Units for defense, culture buildings for more specialists or CSes for culture?

 

[ralph250]

I dunno about that. That would mean at least 6 turns which is roughly around 5000-6000 cultures? Not sure how your little changes can pull that off, added to the superb game you'e already ended up with.

It wouldn't have needed quite that much extra culture. Built Utopia after my golden age expired, so the 20% production plus remembering to rushbuy the solar plant that I'd unlocked (last 4 turns), possibly could've shaved off a couple of turns. I settled my last landmark pretty much the turn before I'd completed my five policies as thought the Brandenburg free GG that I built near the end could be burnt for one.

Then its things like settling landmarks in other cities from my hermitage boosted capital, and my techpath taking a couple of diversions that might not have been optimal. I had 5 golden ages, but didn't burn any artists for one, so possibly been more optimal to have done that over settling some to fill gaps etc.

Even with that, like you say, it's still a good amount of culture to accumulate, so sub-250 might have tough I guess, but think could've got a fair amount closer.

 

[ifinnem]

This thread is the most well rounded for a particular victory so far...and this is for (boring)cultural games

After some nice imput and strategies(i agree about the Oxford--->Archeology part very interesting), which civ do you think is the best for cultural victories?

Haven't tried France but I'm not sure I see the advantage unless its in the snowball effect:
3 cities = 6 cpt extra or ~18cpt with max modifiers
for 200 turns (optimistic since max modifiers don't apply that long) is only ~3500-4000 culture. Siam with the culture ally boost beats that easily imo

I like Siam, Persia the best then maybe Aztec although I've yet to see a great time from them

EDIT: math correction...

 

[budweiser]

This thread is the most well rounded for a particular victory so far...and this is for (boring)cultural games

After some nice imput and strategies(i agree about the Oxford--->Archeology part very interesting), which civ do you think is the best for cultural victories?

Really there are tons. You look at almost any civ and you can see how to get the most culture out of them.

But, Rome, France and Austria, perhaps Russia are going to be really strong in the Renaissance where all the work is going on and they should be able to make decent beakers do drive the science through to Radios.

 

[Tabarnak]

France, Siam(with lot of cultural cs) and Persia seem the best contestants.

Sub 250 is doable. Ribannah and tommy made 142 242 and 143 243 respectively with byzantines(with only 2 AIs on same continent, one of them is a warmonger) for the last cultural GOTM game.

With better conditions sub 240 is surely possible. But my skills aren't good enough to reach that mark. Waiting for ralph250 or these 2 freaks named to reach the oblivion.

 

[budweiser]

I'm going to do some experiments with Rome because I think you want the culture buildings in place the turn you research them which means enough money to purchase them. You also need enough population. Glory of Rome should speed things up quite a bit.

 

[Moriarte]

France, Siam(with lot of cultural cs) and Persia seem the best contestants.

Sub 250 is doable. Ribannah and tommy made 142 and 143 respectively with byzantines(with only 2 AIs on same continent, one of them is a warmonger) for the last cultural GOTM game.

With better conditions sub 240 is surely possible. But my skills aren't good enough to reach that mark. Waiting for ralph250 or these 2 freaks named to reach the oblivion.

Small thing i realized the other day. Siam gets +50% food, culture and faith from FRIENDLY CS's. Does that mean you get a boost when you are friendly with a CS, and a boost when you're ALLIED? Or do you get no ALLIED bonuses? I never bothered to check, even though i played that civ few times.

Tabarnak, you have to correct your post a bit .

 

[GreedysMaximus]

Small thing i realized the other day. Siam gets +50% food, culture and faith from FRIENDLY CS's. Does that mean you get a boost when you are friendly with a CS, and a boost when you're ALLIED? Or do you get no ALLIED bonuses? I never bothered to check, even though i played that civ few times.
.

I'm pretty sure "friendly" applies to allied CSs too.

 

[ifinnem]

I'm pretty sure "friendly" applies to allied CSs too.

Yeah its definitely when friends or allied

 

[Moriarte]

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Tabarnak]

Tabarnak, you have to correct your post a bit .

Yeah you should read 242 and 243

 

[Tachii]

Songhai - not tried them out yet, but getting maintenance-free Temples that also provide culture will be nothing short of awesome. That and you can probably use the Legalism Trick as well (not sure how though).

Aztecs: Culture from War. That aspect is probably just incidental. Their power is getting taller, faster than anybody else. This allows you to field more specialists with larger cities.

EDIT: Siam is probably too advanced for me though. What to use gold on? Units for defense, culture buildings for more specialists or CSes for culture?

Songhai kind of suck. I tried playing them and the UA is nearly useless for a culture game. And really it's just +50 gold from barb camps, but if you're not going to get Honor anyways, why bother?

You also can't do the legalism trick effectively, because you need to build both the shrine and monument first, and the mud mosque is a FREE building anyways, so it doesn't help with the gold issue very much. +2 culture is just that. I probably prefer France over them.

Siam is pretty easy to use actually. Probably especially so if you're on Pangeae and found them all before Astronomy. With G&K now the CS quests are very handy. Hunt barb camps, purposely ignore civs and wait for the quest, luxuries/strategic resources, etc. Cultural CS also seem to have a tendency to want the "highest culture after 30 turns" thing too, so that would just be positive feedback to get more influence.

Using Legalism on the Wat is also very nice, but most cultural games usually benefit more from a Tradition start. But for Siam, the instant science boost and making Oxford for Archaeology/Public school tech is probably even more optimal.

 

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Haven't tried France but I'm not sure I see the advantage unless its in the snowball effect:
3 cities = 6 cpt extra or ~18cpt with max modifiers
for 200 turns (optimistic since max modifiers don't apply that long) is only ~3500-4000 culture. Siam with the culture ally boost beats that easily imo

I like Siam, Persia the best then maybe Aztec although I've yet to see a great time from them

EDIT: math correction...

Consider, though, that Siam doesn't get the cultural bonus from Turn 1. It's all gonna depend on when you get that CS ally.

 

[ifinnem]

Consider, though, that Siam doesn't get the cultural bonus from Turn 1. It's all gonna depend on when you get that CS ally.

They don't need to cos the bonus is huge later which gets ongoing GA stacked on top. Also the extra food and faith are both exactly what you want in a culture game also, plus stampy for defense as needed

 

[budweiser]

OK so I had a decent attempt going with Rome, standard, pangea emperor (didnt want to bother with a military). Two cities. Full Tradtion, full Piety, partial Liberty,. Education was turn 118. Was a little lazy about Emperor RA's and only signed a couple at first. Opened Freedom on t185. Finshed Freedom on t231. Everything including Radio Towers are in place on t231 and I have 9 policies left at 6 turns each atm. Its looking like a 300 turn finish.

I can tell you there was a stretch in the renaissance where I was wishing I had 2 more cities. It would have gone faster to archeaology. Advantage Austria, I could have just bought the cities I wanted.

 

[Moriarte]

I tried it with Napoleon for a personal high score @ t. 262. (Immortal)

A very scientific game from the start. NC finished on turn 74, universities unlocked on turn 98. After selling the enormous amount of salt (7) the money looked good to hook up a a Maritime, a Cultural and a Mercantile.

Tech:

After a detour to lux technologies i went straight for Philosophy, Civil Service. After that Education, Acoustics. All the bottom techs afterwards. Hermitage tech was next, and then, straight into Archaeology!

During the course of the game 6 RAs were signed, all of which were rather helpful.

Hard built 4 universities, 3 public schools. Most cultural buildings (about 70% of them) were cash bought.

Policies:

Unlocked Archaeology with Oxford @ turn 147. Turn 148 the Freedom was unlocked. Turn 187 freedom was finished.

Full order: Full Tradition --> Piety until -10% --> Patronage opener --> Full Freedom --> Full Liberty (GE timed for Cristo on turn 218) --> Finished Patronage --> Finished Piety.

Overflow: Complete failure.

Great People:

11 Great Artists were settled, all before turn 200. 3 more were used for golden ages. One great scientist (PT) helped me open Plastics

Religion:

None. However i managed to build few shrines and temples later, and when i finally got converted, bought 1 Great Artist with faith @ about turn 210.

Wonders:

Chichen Itza, Alhambra, Sistine Chapel, The Leaning Tower of Pisa (GA), Taj Mahal, Porcelain Tower, Louvre, Statue of Liberty, Eiffel Tower, Cristo, Brandenburg.

Missed Oracle by 1 turn.

Didn't look (to me) like i had many fails during that game, yet better scouting would yield me a cultural CS #4 way earlier than turn 230.

Got attacked twice. First, Pacal @ mid game. (CS envy) He came, saw my cities and two turns later offered 55 gpt for peace. I accepted. Second was Harun @ turn 249. (CS envy) We had similar forces, so he just kept dancing on my borders, while i finished Utopia.

Peak culture: 1020 cpt.

 

[ifinnem]

Nice game Moriate

I'm sure everyone in this thread but me was aware but another reason to get Freedom ASAP (ie via Oxford) is that Freedom lengths GAs so even bigger boost than just the landmark increase...

 

[ifinnem]

I tried it with Napoleon for a personal high score @ t. 262. (Immortal)

Didn't look (to me) like i had many fails during that game, yet better scouting would yield me a cultural CS #4 way earlier than turn 230.

Not so much "fails" but possible things to speed up would be extra CS allies (how many on your map?) and also religion cathedrals etc would have prob saved some turns

 

[Tachii]

Currently playing a Byzantium game (Immortal) but realized it's kind of impossible at T204 now to end it sub300. Failed to get Sistine Chapel since it was taken at T146 (WTFCELTS, WTH). First game I've seen SC get taken so early. She was probably pissed I took CI and Alhambra.

What was nice about the game: World Religion + Religious Texts is insane. If I got Itinerant Preachers (which was an available choice when I enhanced) then that would just be epic. I was making 40cpt with it at T204. Still it's not that worth it - but then again Tithe also isn't too good since I had no gold problems. Still not sure what to get for the Bonus Belief though. Will need some more experimentation.