Is the strongest civ to play the one with the earliest advantage?

[btfx]

Yeah ofcourse it can also happen the other way around. I love it when that happens, specially if I can find them early in the game before any other civ: sell techs.

A civ that undeveloped will usually not have any money. I am still confused at why civs don't save any money in the beginning of the game. I guess they are trying to get ahead in tech, but it's such a waste.

 

[Jazzmail]

A civ that undeveloped will usually not have any money. I am still confused at why civs don't save any money in the beginning of the game. I guess they are trying to get ahead in tech, but it's such a waste.

The AI doesn't do the 1 beaker science trick, as far as I know.

Isolated civs can have plenty gold, even techs, in my games. What I look for is the AIs trading only through me. That's one aspect I like about archipello maps.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

An early advantage can be very difficult to overcome, which is why demigod, Deity and SID can be so tough for players new to them. Not that they are easy for anyone. For monarch/emperor, the AI has slight advantages throughout the game, but on demigod, those extra settlers really put the human in a hole.

 

[Taras Bulba]

i feel that an early advantage really does help, and that is why i think that when going into the Ancient Era, you should go for the cheapest tech, and pop the higher ones from huts, but i don't think it is necessary at all. You just have to get used to how to fight civs who have better units, making good use of artillery and defending your stronger units w/ bad defense.

**this is if their defensive units are better than your offensive**​

This usually comes when you get the cannon and cavalry.

Make a decent cavalry force, and make a whole bunch of cannons. Make several Musketman or Rifleman, depending on what you can make.

Slowly move all your units into their territory (if you don't care about repuation, an RoP Rape works very nice) Keep musketman or rifleman on top of your units at all times, and when you move them, right click them, and hit fortify, that way they are safe. Bombard the heck out of the city, trying to get its units down to 1 hp, and take the city w/ your cavalry, making sure you can move a defensive unit on top, keeping some on the cannons.

Keep doing this until you have their cities

sorry this part might be a little but i read this and i just had to play devils advocate

Spoiler :

The strongest civ is the Iroquois.

This is where i will have to disagree with you.

Best traits.

Agricultrual is great, but commercial isn't as great. I know it is a good combo, but i think that Scientific & Industrious, or Agricultrual & Industrious, or even Expantionist & Agricultural are all just as good. Notice 2 of them were Tribes on the America's.... don't ask me why, i hate playing as Inca, and i don't really like the Mayan UU (that is personal hate, not saying it is bad)

Best UU.

for its era maybe...
the sipahi does cost alot, but it is amazing w/ its attack bonus
cossacks have blitz
riders have extra move rate, and for when they come, they can really do some damage, and you don't need roads (if it is plains, grasslands w/ little amounts of mountains, jungles)
Immortals might cost more, but they have 4/1/1, and come at a tech that goes
Bronze Working (cost 3)---> Iron Working (cost 6)
Mounted Warriors 3/1/2 come at
The Wheel (cost 4) + Warrior Code (cost 3)---> Horseback Riding (cost 5)

If a Civ starts out w/ Bronze working, which Persia does, all it needs is to get 1 tech for its UU, where as Iroquios need to get all 3

Best starting techs.

Best starting techs would definatly have to go for the techs that cost the most. In Ancient Times, you go for the cheapest tech, and pop the higher ones, that is how you get done fast. The 3 most expensive techs are Alphabet (cost 5), Masonry (cost 4), and The Wheel (cost 4). **everything else is 3 or 2** The only civ to start out w/ The Wheel is Japan, which has Ceremonial Burial as its other trait, leaving it out. The ONLY other civ that has Masonry and Alphabet to my knowledge is France. That would mean that France starts out w/ the best starting techs.

*keep in mind that this is all Civ III Conquests*
*i got all this from the Civ III Complete Manual*​

 

[btfx]

Overall I think Chinese are the best for conquest. Industrious, and militaristic, plus you can start cavalry wars early with the riders. I don't play them anymore, because I think random is more fun.

 

[agonistes]

My two cents:

If you are the occasional player, agri. is huge. I like agri + industrial myself.

Commercial is overrated. 8 strong industrial cities is enough to conquer the world on deity with a huge map, and late game you are buying alot of things anyway, so commercial's usefulness has alot of limits. When it comes to wartime, you want to be able to build roads fast fast fast, and the faster you irrigate/build roads, the faster your city grows/earns gold. Growth and movement wins every time. Agri/Industrial = growth and movement.

Commercial is nice though, and I actually prefer the romans.

France, Mayans, Egyptians are all strong nations. Don't play deity with seafaring if you want a good shot at winning and unlesss you want to hike a bit before settling down.

 

[Ringo Kid]

Thanks all for your opinions. I just tryed a game with the Iroqouis, and wiped out the other two nations on the continent by 750 BC. I had ivory so I built the wonder that gives the Ancient Cavalry, which when mixed with the Mounted Warriors makes for a tough fighting group.

Actually thats a good start for a peaceful game, as there is no one to fight with after that for hundreds of years, and you get lots of gold from barbarians too.

 

[PaperBeetle]

The best civ is the one with the human controlling it. The worst civs are all the ones in the hands of the AI.
It's kind of a serious point - it doesn't matter which civ you choose, you should still expect to come out on top.

But in the spirit of the original question, the value of different civs depends on your goal. For a military game, the strength of the UU is probably more important than the strength of the traits. For a tech game, the other way around.
I rate very few UUs highly; really just those that are attackers with extra moves or attack points. Ansars and riders are particular favourites.
I think the traits are fairly well balanced, with the obvious exceptions of EXP (weak) and AGR (strong).
But as has been said many times here, the one civ that brings it all together is the C3C Iroquois.

 

[btfx]

I learned from other players and my own experience that the traits are really all very useful, it's just that some players don't like them because they don't want to change their style to accommodate the traits *cough* religious *cough*.
Beetle is absolutely right, aside from Agri and Exp/Sea they are all quite fair (Yes even religious). I find the UU less important in any game. They give you a small advantage at a certain age. Sure, you'll conquer a little more of this or that, what really matters is how well you manage your cavalry.

 

[MAS]

I learned from other players and my own experience that the traits are really all very useful, it's just that some players don't like them because they don't want to change their style to accommodate the traits *cough* religious *cough*.

The problem with religious here is, that the most overwhelmingly efficient way to win is to build units and conquer.
# Want to win by domination? Conquer till near the domination limit, then go over it!
# Want to win by conquest? Conquer till near the domination limit, then start razing newly conquered cities instead!
# Want to win by 100k culture? Conquer till near the domination limit, then start rushing culture improvements everywhere! (and yes, religious will help in this specific case, but only after the conquest faze)
# Want to win by space ship? Conquer till near the domination limit, then refocus your empire on science.
# Want to win by 20K single city culture? Set up your 20k city first, then still Conquer till near the domination limit, with enough power, you can more easily complete wonders first. (research wonder tech before the AI, and destroy AI wonder building cities) In vanilla and PTW, you even go on a war campaign for building the wonders themselves, rushing them with MGL's.

This is true, even if you have half priced temples and cath. So what use is half priced temples and cath if you are not going to build them regardless?

If you accommodate your style so that religious becomes more useful to you, you end up doing less than optimal, with or without the religious trait.

I find the UU less important in any game. They give you a small advantage at a certain age. Sure, you'll conquer a little more of this or that, what really matters is how well you manage your cavalry.

I usually start my conquest before cavalry. Cavalry is used for the mop-up face.

 

[Jazzmail]

# Want to win by 100k culture? Conquer till near the domination limit, then start rushing culture improvements everywhere! (and yes, religious will help in this specific case, but only after the conquest faze)
# Want to win by space ship? Conquer till near the domination limit, then refocus your empire on science.
# Want to win by 20K single city culture? Set up your 20k city first, then still Conquer till near the domination limit, with enough power, you can more easily complete wonders first. (research wonder tech before the AI, and destroy AI wonder building cities) In vanilla and PTW, you even go on a war campaign for building the wonders themselves, rushing them with MGL's.

Not necessary at all. For these wins it is enough to expand and conquer until your republic is so big, the gains become minimal because of corruption. On normal maps this often means just removing 1 or 2 civs from your continent and stopping there.
Meanwhile you just try finish the game as fast as possible by focussing on your goal.
When you are certain you'll stay ahead of your rivals, any more warfare is just alot of unnecessary mouse clicks. Fighting all the way till near domination is a waste, then you're better off going for a domination win.

This is true, even if you have half priced temples and cath. So what use is half priced temples and cath if you are not going to build them regardless?

Those half-priced temples are actually quite decent IMO. Having temples in larger cities is more efficient than increasing the lux slider by another 10% for the whole empire.

 

[Taras Bulba]

it's just that some players don't like them because they don't want to change their style to accommodate the traits *cough* religious *cough*.

there might be some truth in that, but i know from experience, that the way i play, religous just would not help me at all.

-i build libraries, not temples for early cultural expantion, because libraries can get culture to the 2nd level quite a bit faster than temples
-i hardly ever change governments each game, usually once per game *despo-democracy, or despo-facism*
-hardly ever build cathedrals, i build universities and coloseums, both of which get more cultural influence i believe *i don't usually care about happy or content faces, which is bad i know*

So in some ways, i guess i just agreed with what you said, i am just getting the other side out there

Beetle is absolutely right, aside from Agri and Exp/Sea they are all quite fair (Yes even religious).

well, this is where i really had to stand out. i can see the benefits of religious, and agricultural, 2 traits i used to find useless, and i often find myself leaning towards agri civs *i might get around to playing as the sumerians one of these days*, but i think that Expantionist is one of the best traits in the game, and is almost unfair!
Seafaring is fair, but i don't find anything special in that, only the added sea movement, and starting out w/ alphabet for curraghs, and starting near the sea
Getting back to Exp, i think that getting a bonus unit in the begining of the game that has 2 movement, can really really get a good starting position.
With a scout alone, i have popped 7 techs, 2 maps, 4 gold and that was before all the 4 other civs i found (with that scout), even had 3 cities (some even 2) because of that, i only lost 2 wonders, which i had no control over the SoZ, since i had no ivory, but i lost The Oracle, because i hardly ever build that
Getting back to the point, Expantionistic civs can either make or break the game for you in the beginning, and i don't worry about the scout dying from evil tribes, because they are almost 100% passive from expantionistic traits

I find the UU less important in any game. They give you a small advantage at a certain age. Sure, you'll conquer a little more of this or that, what really matters is how well you manage your cavalry.

well, that REALLY depends on what kind of victory you are going for. If you are going for diplomatic, or space race, killing other civs won't really help you. but if you are going for an early victory, and you're Persia, and you already have Bronze working from what you started w/, you only need 1 tech before you can (if you have the iron) start building an amazingly good offensive unit for the Bronze Age. 4/1/1 can really be a killer to those 1/2/1 spearman


PS-i think there is one thing that i hope we can agree on---Exp/Sea together are really useless, no offense portugal

 

[btfx]

there might be some truth in that, but i know from experience, that the way i play, religous just would not help me at all.

-i build libraries, not temples for early cultural expantion, because libraries can get culture to the 2nd level quite a bit faster than temples
-i hardly ever change governments each game, usually once per game *despo-democracy, or despo-facism*
-hardly ever build cathedrals, i build universities and coloseums, both of which get more cultural influence i believe *i don't usually care about happy or content faces, which is bad i know*

So in some ways, i guess i just agreed with what you said, i am just getting the other side out there



well, this is where i really had to stand out. i can see the benefits of religious, and agricultural, 2 traits i used to find useless, and i often find myself leaning towards agri civs *i might get around to playing as the sumerians one of these days*, but i think that Expantionist is one of the best traits in the game, and is almost unfair!
Seafaring is fair, but i don't find anything special in that, only the added sea movement, and starting out w/ alphabet for curraghs, and starting near the sea
Getting back to Exp, i think that getting a bonus unit in the begining of the game that has 2 movement, can really really get a good starting position.
With a scout alone, i have popped 7 techs, 2 maps, 4 gold and that was before all the 4 other civs i found (with that scout), even had 3 cities (some even 2) because of that, i only lost 2 wonders, which i had no control over the SoZ, since i had no ivory, but i lost The Oracle, because i hardly ever build that
Getting back to the point, Expantionistic civs can either make or break the game for you in the beginning, and i don't worry about the scout dying from evil tribes, because they are almost 100% passive from expantionistic traits



well, that REALLY depends on what kind of victory you are going for. If you are going for diplomatic, or space race, killing other civs won't really help you. but if you are going for an early victory, and you're Persia, and you already have Bronze working from what you started w/, you only need 1 tech before you can (if you have the iron) start building an amazingly good offensive unit for the Bronze Age. 4/1/1 can really be a killer to those 1/2/1 spearman


PS-i think there is one thing that i hope we can agree on---Exp/Sea together are really useless, no offense portugal

1. Temple's are cheaper, especially useful when you need to rush a temple to get that resource before a rival. Early high culture helps a lot in negotiations, and borders.
2. Some people change government more often, after conquering a high pop civ it often helps to be able to poprush workers. I did this when I got a random religious civ once, simply wonderful. Huge slave army is always a good thing.
3. It's natural to lean to agri, it's not nearly unanimous, but agri is considered somewhat overweighted.
4. Yes, you have changed my mind, exp does wonders for the beginning of the game.
5. I'm actally planning a story where I play the worst civ against the best ones. Portugal is definate option.