Is there a lack of Native American and African wonders?

[Dionysius]

looks like great mosque of djenne is in warlords.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

I dont think it Can be because we have been told their are 3 wonders total, 2 confirmed as GreatWall and Temple of Artimes. ScreenShoots indicate the third will be Mausoleum of Mausulus (but this is not official yet). If I am mistaken about screen shoots then perhaps it will be the great mosque of djenne. On the other hand this might be consept art for something that didn't make it into WL.

I like the Navel Exp idea but would beef it up to atleast 4 exp (remember navel units are useless). I was thinking the Maoi statues could be a +1 movment much like Magelians voyage so these wonders would each be unique naval wonders that actualy affect ships rather then the economy (not that I have anything against economic bonuses)

 

[Dionysius]

heres an idea: the maoi statues allow galleys 2 turns of travel on ocean then they sink,so they cant go very far, but could hop to another island.

 

[Dionysius]

You are right, i suppose. twas just an idea.
anyway, anyone know why there is a wonder movie screenshot of the mosque of djenne, but no wonder? assuming there isnt one...

 

[Cannae]

I personly think that it the Maoi staues would give a worker improvement bonus to represent the hard work they reqired to move the statues.

Note I am sorry that I could not respond my computer's internet was'nt working

 

[Dionysius]

has anyone mentioned= The Churchs of Lalibela?

Lalibela stands on soft red volcanic rock and was originally known as Roha. It was later renamed Lalibela when King Lalibela was credited with building the rock-hewn churches there in the twelfth century. Lalibela is now regarded as one of the greatest Ethiopian architectural wonders and is ranked the eighth most incredible historical site in the world by UNESCO. Aksum and Lalibela have in common architectural and stone works, which illustrate Ethiopian civilisation at great length.

In Lalibela there are 11 churches cut out of solid red volcanic rock, which are constructed to represent Jerusalem. The churches are divided into Northern and Eastern groups of churches by a rock-cut channel (river) called Yordannos (Jordan River) and connected by narrow and deep passages. Bieta Medhane Alem is the largest and most impressive monolithic church. Of all the churches, Bieta Giyorgis (Saint George) is particularly stunning and beautiful, situated apart from the other churches to the west, intricately carved into the shape of a cross. All the churches are still used as places of worship.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

I though thas site was called Peta and it was used in the Indiana Jones movie as the place ware he finds the most HolyGcccccaaaaiiil.

 

[Dionysius]

what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Cannae]

has anyone mentioned= The Churchs of Lalibela?

Could you give a picture of what you are talking aboght??? I am thinking that I might now what it is.

 

[Dionysius]

here ye go. i think these are of the Bieta Giyorgis church.

 

[Xereq]

To answer the title question: Yes, in the real world. Besides Chichen Itza I can't really think of any construction of african or native american origin that had the purpose or effect of the notable wonders of eurasian origin.
This has nothing to do with race as there are no races, only ethnicities. Those with wisdom can recognize that all humans are equal, and can, at this point in time, look back on any cultures achievemants and be proud to be a member of the human race.
Why do we hold such petty grudges? Your ancestor did such-and-such, and my ancestor did no such horrible thing.
The Eurasians developed 'civilization' (the proccess of breeding politicians and finding faster ways to kill others, plus science and healthcare and peace treaties and other positive things) While the first americans and africans lived off the bounty of abundant, recource rich land; with no real need for politics, science, or faster ways to kill one another.

Who wins? Who is the best?

The humans of course!

But we are all human...oh right, we are all human.

Civilization, the current dominant force (over religion) that controls humanity, was created mostly in europe and aisa. It is only natural that a game of CIvilizations should be centered on european and aisan achievements. That does not mean I think that africans/aborigionees/native americans are "uncivilized (you have to say it with an upturned nose in a brittish elite accent.)" Personally I would prefer to live without a civilization, to have all the things I need to survive abundant around me, to never have a concept of "class distinction" or "war." But as in the late game in CIV IV, the empires controll all the recources, and only the wealthiest 1% get to live how man dreams of living, how man is meant to live.

but lets despense with the philosophy for a moment, what is your agenda? Do you have a mod that you are working on, does it work? Does it add anything but more? What about balance? What about graphics, fun, flavor, and function? If there isn't a reason for the changes a mod would be a waste of effort. If there isn't going to be a mod let us engage in intellegent conversation/debate/flamewar.

 

[Xereq]

erg, started to rant in the above post I could remove the rant if it makes people uncomfortable. Its why I posted "statemant withdrawn" earlier.

 

[Dionysius]

nice rant. really more of a speech.
but i suppose what were trying to do is make sure
we have a balanced amount of wonders; ones from
asia africa and america so`s they get some representation.
although one must admit there is a wonder shortage outside of
europe.

what about the pyramid of the sun in Teotihuacan?

note: it appears there is definately a malinese wonder in warlords.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

I though thas site was called Peta and it was used in the Indiana Jones movie as the place ware he finds the most HolyGcccccaaaaiiil.

You're thinking of "Petra" (in Jordan), and it's only a facade carved in the stone. There is no interior (as the movie portrays).

 

[Cannae]

Yes that's what I thought it was.I personly think that there to keep game play balance there should add 7 new wonders. I am reading 1491 by Charels C. Mann anyway it was saing that the reson that the Natives did'nt use iron for tools is because the Euopeians and the Natives had diffrent values.An exsample of that would be that the Eurpoeans valued strength, sharpness and usefullness as a tool, the Natives however vauled plyability, fexibilty and sutff like that so that is why even thogh there was lots of iron they din't have a use for it.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Sorry SlavicSoux I dont by that, metal has been universaly desirable to ALL cultures that came in contact with it. For example the Navajo would find nuggets of Native Copper and shape them into jinggle bells. These were valuable enough to serve as a means of exchange, Iron tools would have been still more valuable for all the reasons you mentioned, tools made of stone and wood are inferior in practicaly every concivable way to ones made of metal. The only advantage is they require less knowlage to make.

 

[Dionysius]

The last new Wonder is this famed Malinese University. Requiring knowledge of Paper (not to mention 550 production, double speed with stone) to complete, the University is well worth the trouble it takes to construct simply because it adds +2 research to all buildings associated with your state religion. For civs that focus on religious growth, this could offer a huge boost in research once it's completed. Like the Temple of Artemis, the University generates +8 culture and +2 great people in the city it's built in. Cities that own the University are more likely to generate Great Scientists as well. The University can only be built on Renaissance and later starts and becomes obsolete with the discovery of Computers.

huh. it was the university not the mosque.

 

[NT_Jedi]

To answer the title question: Yes, in the real world. Besides Chichen Itza I can't really think of any construction of african or native american origin that had the purpose or effect of the notable wonders of eurasian origin.

I agree... eventually we might even see a topic called " Is there a lack of female Wonders ? "

 

[dh_epic]

Some people don't do much research outside of the history they're taught in their high school textbooks -- usually written in their own country.

There ARE several significant African wonders. (Native American less so, unless you're talking about Mexico-and-further-south.)

AFRICA:

The Mosque of Djenne
Bete Giyorgis
Timbuktu itself is considered a Wonder (but there are many buildings here)
Temple of Abu Simbel
Catacombs of Kom el Shoqafa


AMERICA:

Maccu Picchu
Tenochtitlan itself is considered a Wonder (but there are many buildings here)
The Mayan Temples at Tikal
The Moai Statues
The Temple of the Inscriptions
Christ the Redeemer (significantly non-native, mind you. Panama Canal and Itaipú Dam would go here too.)

Each of these had huge impacts on thousands/millions of people (depending on the era). As deserving as any other wonder.

 

[albefranks]

It's funny how Africa has played a significant role in human history for the first half of our known existence and all of a sudden we cant find any wonders.